At what point is it time for a rebuild?

[evanreynolds1116]

Kings need to sign Doughty and re-tool.

They need to let Mitchell walk and find someone to take Clifford and Thompson.

No reason to have #1 D if you can’t score so look to trade one of Muzzin/Martinez (preferably Martinez but both have solid value)

Shake up top 6 and maybe get rid of either Toffoli/Pearson (I vote Pearson)

All that gives the Kings $12.M space minus whatever you are getting back in trades. Then the cap is supposed to go up a decent amount. Use that to get a legit top winger and let the kids play in the bottom 6.

 

[Bandit]

Blake should have Dave Tippett on the horn this morning.

For what? To shine his shoes? Certainly not to coach the Kings...

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Kings need to sign Doughty and re-tool.

They need to let Mitchell walk and find someone to take Clifford and Thompson.

No reason to have #1 D if you can’t score so look to trade one of Muzzin/Martinez (preferably Martinez but both have solid value)

Shake up top 6 and maybe get rid of either Toffoli/Pearson (I vote Pearson)

All that gives the Kings $12.M space minus whatever you are getting back in trades. Then the cap is supposed to go up a decent amount. Use that to get a legit top winger and let the kids play in the bottom 6.

Thompson is only making $1.65 million. I'd rather keep him. Guy is great at faceoffs, good defensively, and plays a physical game. He should (needs to) take over for Kopitar as the leading PK guy for the Kings next season.

 

[Basilisk]

Kings need a coach with passion. Every interview with John Stevens was almost the same. Dude's a boring robot guy. Sometimes, a coach needs to also be a cheerleader.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

For what? To shine his shoes? Certainly not to coach the Kings...

PP and goal scoring are still issues. Instead of hiring “offensive specialists” let’s get a guy that knows some offense and emphasizes execution yet also won’t destroy the defensive minded culture the Kings have built.

After watching this past series with minimal adjustments made, Stevens got out coached.

 

[bouncesonly]

Realistically, did any of you guys REALLY believe that we were going to have a deep run with our roster? It seems like we were just re-tooling on the fly with our young guys getting much needed playoff experience. Now the young know what it takes to be successful in the playoffs.

So the opposite of getting swept is a deep run? How about winning 1 game? Or maybe not getting shutout twice. Or maybe scoring more than 3 goals? Surely these "goals" are manageable with the roster we have, no?

 

[KingsFan7824]

PP and goal scoring are still issues. Instead of hiring “offensive specialists” let’s get a guy that knows some offense and emphasizes execution yet also won’t destroy the defensive minded culture the Kings have built.

After watching this past series with minimal adjustments made, Stevens got out coached.

What options did the players give Stevens? Other than Kopitar, who had their engines running?

 

[DryIslandBartender]

What options did the players give Stevens? Other than Kopitar, who had their engines running?

I’m not giving the players a pass either. This was a collective effort to get swept. Aside from Quick, Kopitar and Doughty.

 

[Bandit]

PP and goal scoring are still issues. Instead of hiring “offensive specialists” let’s get a guy that knows some offense and emphasizes execution yet also won’t destroy the defensive minded culture the Kings have built.

After watching this past series with minimal adjustments made, Stevens got out coached.

Not disagreeing with any of that, but Tippet would be the last guy I'd tap for that purpose.

 

[BigKing]

Still loving that Mitchell trade that negated actually getting anything for Dwight Kings corpse last season. Mitchell really helped this deep playoff run.

Face it: Teams don't generally rebuild when they have a $10MM a year player on the team. They are going to ride and die with 11/8/32/23 and probably 77.

While the playoff embarrassment helps the rebuild brigade, the seasons of Kopitar/Doughty give Blake and Co. all the ammo they need to defend staying on the same path. Carter's injury also helps this cause as they can extrapolate a full season total and say he is a 30 goal guy still. Just need to see further development from prospects and stay the course. I'm pretty convinced that will be the play.

They definitely could fire Stevens, however.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Still loving that Mitchell trade that negated actually getting anything for Dwight Kings corpse last season. Mitchell really helped this deep playoff run.

Face it: Teams don't generally rebuild when they have a $10MM a year player on the team. They are going to ride and die with 11/8/32/23 and probably 77.

While the playoff embarrassment helps the rebuild brigade, the seasons of Kopitar/Doughty give Blake and Co. all the ammo they need to defend staying on the same path. Carter's injury also helps this cause as they can extrapolate a full season total and say he is a 30 goal guy still. Just need to see further development from prospects and stay the course. I'm pretty convinced that will be the play.

They definitely could fire Stevens, however.

I’m sure we’ll get a newly designed jersey at some point as well.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Still loving that Mitchell trade that negated actually getting anything for Dwight Kings corpse last season. Mitchell really helped this deep playoff run.

Face it: Teams don't generally rebuild when they have a $10MM a year player on the team. They are going to ride and die with 11/8/32/23 and probably 77.

While the playoff embarrassment helps the rebuild brigade, the seasons of Kopitar/Doughty give Blake and Co. all the ammo they need to defend staying on the same path. Carter's injury also helps this cause as they can extrapolate a full season total and say he is a 30 goal guy still. Just need to see further development from prospects and stay the course. I'm pretty convinced that will be the play.

They definitely could fire Stevens, however.

And they made that choice in the summer of 2012. Then reinforced it in the summer of 2013. Then solidified it whatever day Kopitar signed. Those 3 aren't going anywhere, because they can't go anywhere, good or bad. They signed retirement contracts, and no other team needs that. Doughty has his chance to leave, and he's free to do so. They'll offer him whatever he wants, and if he says no, please get rid of him quickly, because I can't take a year of endless speculation. If anyone else wants out, go for it.

What they'll do without Doughty, but with the rest, I don't know. Kill time until those contracts are done? Basically do what Detroit is doing? Can't really do anything else. 4 years until Brown and Carter are finally UFA's.

 

[Reaper45]

My plan is something I've probably discussed previously but I would trade Toffoli, Carter, Reider and one of Muzzin or Martinez. I'd also move Clifford and Andreoff and let Mitchell and Gravel walk. I would sign Tavares. Target all kids on the cusp of being full time NHLers who are still on ELC's in the Toffoli, Carter, and M/M deals to offset adding Tavares. Get a pick for Reider, Clifford/AA. Promote Vilardi.

Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Tavares-Vilardi
Kempe-Amadio-Lewis
XXX- Thompson-XXX

Doughty-Forbort
Muzzin-Brickley
Phaneuf-Fantenberg/LaDue
Macdermid

Quick
Campbell

Obviously roster doesn't reflect who would be acquired in said deals.

 

[johnjm22]

My plan is something I've probably discussed previously but I would trade Toffoli, Carter, Reider and one of Muzzin or Martinez. I'd also move Clifford and Andreoff and let Mitchell and Gravel walk. I would sign Tavares. Target all kids on the cusp of being full time NHLers who are still on ELC's in the Toffoli, Carter, and M/M deals to offset adding Tavares. Get a pick for Reider, Clifford/AA. Promote Vilardi.

Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Tavares-Vilardi
Kempe-Amadio-Lewis
XXX- Thompson-XXX

Doughty-Forbort
Muzzin-Brickley
Phaneuf-Fantenberg/LaDue
Macdermid

Quick
Campbell

Obviously roster doesn't reflect who would be acquired in said deals.

Of course we would do something like this ideally, but how would the Kings convince Tavares to sign here? Chances of the Kings signing him are extremely slim. He wants to play for a contender.

If JT is available, I wouldn't be opposed to the Kings going after him hard as long as the cap hit isn't ridiculous.

 

[BigKing]

The idea, I guess, is to sell him that they are a contender with him.

Luc is good at selling this team as a contender: he'll figure it out.

 

[Rorschach]

My preference is a re-tool of one significant piece and some minor roster tweaks.

But if we go full rebuild, it has to be five years and if we do that, we will trade and be able to trade Kopitar and Brown. We just have to have salary retention. In fact I could see us making deals to take cap dumps even.

 

[kingscups]

NOW! I'd go scorched earth sending Stevens, and the core packing for future assets that can be brought in and developed together. I believe Doughty will walk if not traded, and right now the roster is just not talented enough to compete, and by the time it is Kopitar, Doughty Quick will be past their prime.

Stevens got out-coached in the series with the Knights, but even before that was not getting any consistency with his team, the roster may need work, but these results are not solely a product of the roster.

 

[johnjm22]

If it were up to me, I'd trade all these guys for picks and prospects:
Carter
Muzzin
Martinez
Toffoli
Lewis


I'd hang on to all the organization's current picks/prospects and I'd hang onto Kopitar/Brown/Phaneuf/Doughty/Quick to keep the franchise stable while we rebuild/retool. If Doughty won't resign ASAP, trade him.

Would also consider resigning Folin and Mitchell. Simply as warm bodies to fill up roster spots while the kids develop.

I'd also attempt to bring in Voynov, Kubalik and other young college/Euro/Russian FA's as well.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

My plan is something I've probably discussed previously but I would trade Toffoli, Carter, Reider and one of Muzzin or Martinez. I'd also move Clifford and Andreoff and let Mitchell and Gravel walk. I would sign Tavares. Target all kids on the cusp of being full time NHLers who are still on ELC's in the Toffoli, Carter, and M/M deals to offset adding Tavares. Get a pick for Reider, Clifford/AA. Promote Vilardi.

Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Tavares-Vilardi
Kempe-Amadio-Lewis
XXX- Thompson-XXX

Doughty-Forbort
Muzzin-Brickley
Phaneuf-Fantenberg/LaDue
Macdermid

Quick
Campbell

Obviously roster doesn't reflect who would be acquired in said deals.

They have repeatedly said Vilardi is a center and will only play center...if you watch about 10 minutes of footage of him, it completely makes sense, because is creates and makes plays beyond his years.
So, that would mean Carter moves to RW or is traded. Carter is the same on wing or center.
Don't discount Clague. He just scored 12 goals and 73 assists for 85 points in in 68 games. The Kings need more speed on the backend and he has speed and skill. He may be better served playing a year in the AHL, just don't rule him out. I would not be shocked to see JAD make it as well. He's just the kind of player we need on the third line. Speed, skill, tenacious...will be a more skilled Stoll, basically. (not a bad thing at all) Don't rule out Brodzinski, believe he will still make it.

 

[kenito7]

My plan is something I've probably discussed previously but I would trade Toffoli, Carter, Reider and one of Muzzin or Martinez. I'd also move Clifford and Andreoff and let Mitchell and Gravel walk. I would sign Tavares. Target all kids on the cusp of being full time NHLers who are still on ELC's in the Toffoli, Carter, and M/M deals to offset adding Tavares. Get a pick for Reider, Clifford/AA. Promote Vilardi.

Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Tavares-Vilardi
Kempe-Amadio-Lewis
XXX- Thompson-XXX

Doughty-Forbort
Muzzin-Brickley
Phaneuf-Fantenberg/LaDue
Macdermid

Quick
Campbell

Obviously roster doesn't reflect who would be acquired in said deals.

When Drew signs for 10m or more you have 3 guys making 10 million or more. You would still have scoring problems on the wings and not much cap space.

 

[johnjm22]

My preference is a re-tool of one significant piece and some minor roster tweaks.

But if we go full rebuild, it has to be five years and if we do that, we will trade and be able to trade Kopitar and Brown. We just have to have salary retention. In fact I could see us making deals to take cap dumps even.

If we go full on blow it up and rebuild, 5 years is best case scenario. It could take a lot longer, and it could also fail completely.

People talk about being stuck in the black hole, but if you blow it up you could end up in the hell hole which is even worse.

Buffalo is going on year 8 of the hell hole with no end in sight.

 

[ShattStar03]

So the opposite of getting swept is a deep run? How about winning 1 game? Or maybe not getting shutout twice. Or maybe scoring more than 3 goals? Surely these "goals" are manageable with the roster we have, no?

Wouldn't the opposite of a sweep be a deep run? I'm not sure if I understand your question.

Obviously, these "goals" were not manageable considering how the Kings failed to score. They ran into a hot goalie and a four line team. If Blake really felt confident about the lineup going into the playoffs for a deep run, he would've added more pieces at the deadline but he didn't.

Let's face it, the roster wasn't good enough to make a substantial run, period. If the Kings won ONE game, would that make any difference? Probably not, you're simply prolonging the execution. Ok, so you would be able to tell your Vegas friends that you won ONE game! Awesome! You would've been able to say that the Kings are now 2-6 in the playoffs, that's such a big accomplishment.

 

[Rorschach]

I contend that Alec Martinez is now our 2nd best defenseman. After losing Mitchell, Scuderi, Greene, Voynov and replacing them with Forbort, this is where we're at.

I can't see us dealing Muzzin or Martinez. If anything we need another defenseman. Not to keep pucks out of our net, we're good at that already, but to drive possession, clear our zone, drive our PP and give our team more offensive chances overall. We got beat because we wasted so much time and energy unsuccessfully trying to clear out zone, not because we got outscore by three goals.

Some of our forwards, especially the wingers, struggle with scoring when they have to play so long on defense and be so deep in the zone to clear pucks.

 

[johnjm22]

I contend that Alec Martinez is now our 2nd best defenseman now. After losing Mitchell, Scuderi, Greene, Voynov and replacing them with Forbort, this is where we're at.

I can't see us dealing Muzzin or Martinez. If anything we need another defenseman. Not to keep pucks out of our net, we're good at that already, but to drive possession, clear our zone, drive our PP and give our team more offensive chances overall. We got beat because we wasted so much time and energy unsuccessfully trying to clear out zone, not because we got outscore by three goals.

Some of our forwards, especially the wingers, struggle with scoring when they have to play so long on defense and be so deep in the zone to clear pucks.

I would trade both. It makes us a worse team, but it's better for the organization in the long run. We're not going to win anything in the short term so I don't see the point of holding on to them.

They're probably both worth 1st round picks right now. If you wait to trade them, they lose value.

 

[Rorschach]

If we go full on blow it up and rebuild, 5 years is best case scenario. It could take a lot longer, and it could also fail completely.

People talk about being stuck in the black hole, but if you blow it up you could end up in the hell hole which is even worse.

Buffalo is going on year 8 of the hell hole with no end in sight.

You're absolutely right that it's a huge gamble. But in a gamble there's a chance you win. Currently we won't have a chance with no Doughty.

I believe what would prevent our rebuild from turning into Buffalo or even Edmonton (shudder) is that we have a strong organization, developmentally. The number of NHL players we've cranked out is pretty decent, when we've kept our picks. So I feel comfortable in saying that it won't turn out like those other rebuilds.

What I am afraid of is NEVER finding another Kopitar or Doughty, especially the latter. Kopitar we developed. Doughty came into this league a #1D and that is by far the hardest position to learn...and he's RHD...