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At what point is it time for a rebuild?

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I think for starters we should trade Carter for a 1st pairing d man to play with Doughty. Then promote kempe to second line center. Get some young blood in there.
 
Part of me wonders if Doughty is going to want off the sinking ship, because the future of this franchise looks bleak.
 
Just my outsider-fan opinion but you don't blow up a cup winning core. Yeah you guys probably need to re-tool. Absolutely. Maybe even trade a big name and suck up another year of mediocrity. But the window is still open. Look no further than the Bruins. I mean they lost to a pretty crappy Ottawa team in the playoffs last year, missed the playoffs the two years before that. They hit on some draft picks like Pastrnak and McAvoy but overall their best players are not spring chickens and this year they might take home the cup.

Any time you have Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty you gotta see what you can wring out of them, even if it looks bleak.
 
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OvermanKingGainer said:
Just my outsider-fan opinion but you don't blow up a cup winning core. Yeah you guys probably need to re-tool. Absolutely. Maybe even trade a big name and suck up another year of mediocrity. But the window is still open. Look no further than the Bruins. I mean they lost to a pretty crappy Ottawa team in the playoffs last year, missed the playoffs the two years before that. They hit on some draft picks like Pastrnak and McAvoy but overall their best players are not spring chickens and this year they might take home the cup.

Any time you have Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty you gotta see what you can wring out of them, even if it looks bleak.
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that's kinda where i stand

you're not getting anything back that's worth as much as kopitar or doughty if they're traded, i'm firmly of the opinion that jeff carter is one of the best bargains in the NHL, brown is probably untradeable unfortunately but everyone else has to be expendable at this point
 
I think we all knew this would be a transition year, so being on the bubble was expected. At times the team looked like contenders and a handful for whoever they played, other times they looked slow and meek, like in this series. Give Vegas credit, but really I don't think it matters who the Kings play, it's just how this team is right now. It's clear they put everything into making the playoffs, and were spent after that. Lots of things were dealt with this year. Carter was never himself again, and losing Muzzin and Forbort was a huge blow. The fill-ins played admirably, but it's rough to come into that kind of situation and be comfortable if you've been in the minors for most of the year. It takes a lot to overcome that adversity, and this team doesn't have it like they did 5 years ago.

I think next year is going to be a transition as well, and that's when decisions are going to be made. They could certainly set a target for two years from now and build towards that, re-tooling the core. I really don't care which path they choose, but if they decide to blow it up, do it right. If they decide to take one last shot at it, do it right. Put 100% into it either way. What I am fearful of is the lip service and stringing along we will be subject to if they waffle and go 50/50 on a rebuild/retool. I think it's been shown that this particular group needs to be pushed hard to achieve. If Blake & Co. don't show the hunger and desire to get it done, the players can't be expected to either and they might as well start stockpiling assets.
 
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If I'm Blake I'm going to Meehan/Doughty in a week and seeing where they stand. If they want too much or don't want to deal with a retool (at the minimum needed) I'm sending him out and saying **** it and going into a rebuild, which means trading Quick/Muzzin/etc etc (Brown stays due to the contract, Kopi may not have a good suitor, and Martinez and/or Phaneuf (likely Dion) mentors the defense.

If he stays, you build around the big 3 still and no one else who is over 25 stays or is guaranteed to stay.
 
I’ve seen Toffoli’s name mentioned a bit in trade proposals. Is he available? Has he fallen out of favour, or is it that he has value? If he was traded, what would you guys be looking for in return?
 
I don't see the point in paying Doughty/Kopitar 10-mil if we can't compete in the playoffs. It's now been 4 years of either not making the playoffs, or getting smoked in the 1st round. What are we doing? Let's just f***ing start over.
 
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Axl Rhoadz said:
I don't see the point in paying Doughty/Kopitar 10-mil if we can't compete in the playoffs. It's now been 4 years of either not making the playoffs, or getting smoked in the 1st round. What are we doing? Let's just ****ing start over.
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It's mainly because you arent gonna get another Kopitar/Doughty

There's maybe what a HANDFUL of players like Kopitar, there are players that are NOT like Kopitar, in the sense of a Schiefele, Barzal, Huberdeau etc, then there's a Berergon, Barkov, etc.

Same with Doughty, not many like him, if any, so do you keep those two rare players and try and build around them, or do you let them go, not an easy decision to make
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
It's mainly because you arent gonna get another Kopitar/Doughty

There's maybe what a HANDFUL of players like Kopitar, there are players that are NOT like Kopitar, in the sense of a Schiefele, Barzal, Huberdeau etc, then there's a Berergon, Barkov, etc.

Same with Doughty, not many like him, if any, so do you keep those two rare players and try and build around them, or do you let them go, not an easy decision to make
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Get all you can get for them and start over. If you can't compete with a core of Kopitar/Quick/Doughty, then you have no business wasting valuable time with them, imo.
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
It's mainly because you arent gonna get another Kopitar/Doughty

There's maybe what a HANDFUL of players like Kopitar, there are players that are NOT like Kopitar, in the sense of a Schiefele, Barzal, Huberdeau etc, then there's a Berergon, Barkov, etc.

Same with Doughty, not many like him, if any, so do you keep those two rare players and try and build around them, or do you let them go, not an easy decision to make
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Let them go. By the time the Kings get the assets necessary to compete, Kopitar will likely be 33-34 years old, and that's if they get lucky in acquiring the right assets very quickly.

Don't worry though, Luc will never do this voluntarily. The ball is in Doughty's court now, and the Kings will pay him whatever he wants. He still might not stay. I did't think his body language was very good in the post game interview last night.
 
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Doughty is gone. He wants to win another cup or two and he wants to be the guy that brings it back to a Canadian team.

Time for a new HC, development team, and core. If the FO thinks we are still contenders, they need to go as well.
 
KINGS17 said:
Don't worry though, Luc will never do this voluntarily.
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As though Robitaille is the only guy like that. The vast majority of franchises have change thrust upon them because players choose to leave/retire.

Lombardi came in and traded Demitra, then missed on one of the three top 5 picks he had, missed on at least 1 other top defenseman for a guy who never played, then traded a bunch of the future for what was looking like failure, until he traded more future in a move to probably save his own skin. Best laid plans.

How much better might Buffalo be today had they traded Briere and Drury after the 05-06 season? Instead they held onto them, finished 1st overall in 06-07, didn't win the Cup, and lost them both to free agency for nothing. They still haven't recovered 10 years later.

You're right in what they should do. Your expectations of a franchise actually doing that are as off as a fan thinking the Kings can still win though.

If Doughty wants to stay, they'll sign him, because making an extra dollar today will always be more important to any franchise than the off chance they actually win the Cup in some unknown future season. If Doughty wants to get out, then it might force their hand, but not because Robitaille is an idiot in running a team. He might be that, but rare is the management in sports that is that clever.

Looking back, Brown should've been dealt at the 2012 draft. Still had 2 years left on a nothing contract, and his value was never higher. Same with Quick, with only a year left, and a new Conn Smythe. With how good Jones is, they probably could've won in 2014 without Quick. Brown was hardly the same player by then too. That's when you get back some of the value you lost by trading Schenn, Simmonds, and two 1sts for Richards, Carter, and Penner.

Kopitar and Williams should've been traded at the 2014 draft. Another Conn Smythe player that wasn't going to repeat that effort, and a franchise C on a great contract for a couple years. If not the first time around, that's when you get back some of the value lost between 2011 and 2012.

More than not buying out Richards, or giving Gaborik that contract, not making those moves has cost the Kings more in the long run. Now, 4 years later, they can't move any of those guys, and the guys they can trade won't bring back the right amount. If they're lucky, they'll get the equivalent of Johnson and a late 1st for Carter today.
 
KingsFan7824 said:
As though Robitaille is the only guy like that. The vast majority of franchises have change thrust upon them because players choose to leave/retire.

Lombardi came in and traded Demitra, then missed on one of the three top 5 picks he had, missed on at least 1 other top defenseman for a guy who never played, then traded a bunch of the future for what was looking like failure, until he traded more future in a move to probably save his own skin. Best laid plans.

How much better might Buffalo be today had they traded Briere and Drury after the 05-06 season? Instead they held onto them, finished 1st overall in 06-07, didn't win the Cup, and lost them both to free agency for nothing. They still haven't recovered 10 years later.

You're right in what they should do. Your expectations of a franchise actually doing that are as off as a fan thinking the Kings can still win though.

If Doughty wants to stay, they'll sign him, because making an extra dollar today will always be more important to any franchise than the off chance they actually win the Cup in some unknown future season. If Doughty wants to get out, then it might force their hand, but not because Robitaille is an idiot in running a team. He might be that, but rare is the management in sports that is that clever.

Looking back, Brown should've been dealt at the 2012 draft. Still had 2 years left on a nothing contract, and his value was never higher. Same with Quick, with only a year left, and a new Conn Smythe. With how good Jones is, they probably could've won in 2014 without Quick. Brown was hardly the same player by then too. That's when you get back some of the value you lost by trading Schenn, Simmonds, and two 1sts for Richards, Carter, and Penner.

Kopitar and Williams should've been traded at the 2014 draft. Another Conn Smythe player that wasn't going to repeat that effort, and a franchise C on a great contract for a couple years. If not the first time around, that's when you get back some of the value lost between 2011 and 2012.

More than not buying out Richards, or giving Gaborik that contract, not making those moves has cost the Kings more in the long run. Now, 4 years later, they can't move any of those guys, and the guys they can trade won't bring back the right amount. If they're lucky, they'll get the equivalent of Johnson and a late 1st for Carter today.
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I can completely understand your logic, I would also posit that its hard to just make those moves one because the GM would have to be cold and calculating which for most is not human nature. Secondly, being that LA is not a traditional making those moves right after winning cups would necessarily endear you to players going forward.
 
I don't think Stevens is going to get fired. As a matter of fact, I don't think it was his fault at all. The series was closer than what the win/loss ratio says, the Kings simply didn't have the personnel to get the job done and that's not Stevens fault.

If you look at the season, the Kings gave up very little (if anything) to get in the playoffs. The Kings still have all their prospects, the majority of their draft picks. The younger players got valuable playoff experience and ice time. I think we all know what the problem is, which is a lack of offense. Defense was fine. Kopitar and Brown had career years, which shows that they do have a pulse in their careers.

I do think a roster shake up will help the Kings such as possibly trading Pearson or Toffoli (more so Toffoli). Those guys are getting paid way too much for their lack of production. You could also trade Brown and potentially free up cap space. However, if you trade those guys, who would you replace them with? Maybe a package for Patches? Who knows.

I believe sunny days are ahead for the Kings, they have a stud prospect itching to get a shot in the NHL, they have some assets for a potential trade. With the possibility of Slava Voynov coming back, our blue line is going to be off the charts good (granted that Doughty re-signs, which I believe he will). You could even expend some of the defense for offense if that's the case.

Realistically, did any of you guys REALLY believe that we were going to have a deep run with our roster? It seems like we were just re-tooling on the fly with our young guys getting much needed playoff experience. Now the young know what it takes to be successful in the playoffs.
 
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I think it'd be worth it to go look at the press conference from when Luc and Blake were hired.

Spoilers: they aren't going to blow anything up.
 
J Smoove said:
I think it'd be worth it to go look at the press conference from when Luc and Blake were hired.

Spoilers: they aren't going to blow anything up.
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They also said the current construct of the team can compete for cups. Obviously getting swept by the Knights blows a big sized hole in that assessment.
 
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