At 6th Overall the Red Wings Take Filip Zadina

[Steve Yzerlland]

Looking at that 2018 draft, it doesn't look like he's really underachieving compared to his forward peers. Shaping up to be a weak draft.

This doesn't make us feel better.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I can't believe the number of people saying he's been having good games. He adds nothing to a line — more often takes away when on top lines or powerplay. Forced passes and bad shot attempts.

Something is off with him though. I really hope he puts it all together this year. Maybe when Vrana comes back.

But he has not been good at all. You could replace him with literally anyone, lol.

Facts.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Analytics aren’t the be all end all but they work. Anyone pretending otherwise honestly has got a boomer mentality, lol.

 

[Bench]

however his shooting still sucks.

Man, that's the one head scratcher about him.

 

[Henkka]

Man, that's the one head scratcher about him.

Screener missing. He has been also snake-bitten, but most of Zadina-shots are clear shots for a goalie. Too easy if guys see them. That line just needs better chemistry, more Rasmussen on the net and then shooting behind a screen. Now there's two big bodies in Erne too, so maybe some puck luck is coming.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Since the analytics are in Zadina's favor & the eyeball test shows somewhat improved, I believe he is truly snake-bitten, but also needs to go stealth a la the poisonous stargazer fish & strike at opportune times.

getting a variety of shots/passes off faster will help greatly.

 

[njx9]

Analytics aren’t the be all end all but they work. Anyone pretending otherwise honestly has got a boomer mentality, lol.

Corsi and Fenwick are garbage stats for Zadina, but the people who keep pointing at them without understanding what they represent don't care because they make him look good. "lol".

 

[FMichael]

Man, that's the one head scratcher about him.

Indeed - that was apparently his schtick in JR hockey - what he was supposed to do once turning pro.

 

[Henkka]

Corsi and Fenwick are garbage stats for Zadina, but the people who keep pointing at them without understanding what they represent don't care because they make him look good. "lol".

Corsi and Fenwick can be anything, I don't really care. Just look sometimes. Those include the weak and bad shots.

But Zadina is team leader in xGF% = Medium+High Danger shots for/against. Most important scoring chanches.

I'm more impressed of the low against numbers, he is doing well especially defensively.

Scoring will come.

 

[RRhoads]

Going by the eye test, Zadina is showing great potential. Apart from not scoring, he is playing pretty good. Might be gripping his stick a bit too hard at the moment, but I think when he gets one, more will follow.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Corsi and Fenwick are garbage stats for Zadina, but the people who keep pointing at them without understanding what they represent don't care because they make him look good. "lol".

Yes, I definitely have no idea what Corsi and Fenwick are. You caught me.

What you are unable to do is compose an argument that can refute the analytics. If Corsi and Fenwick are garbage stats for Zadina, why aren't they for Larkin, Bertuzzi and Raymond? Why aren't they for the elite players in the league? Why do people pour more money and more resources into analytics year after year after year if they are garbage stats?

Your attempt counter analytics is to suggest I'm an idiot and don't understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Dotter]

Analytics aren’t the be all end all but they work. Anyone pretending otherwise honestly has got a boomer mentality, lol.

Analytics are millennials be-all-end-all... not boomers. Boomers rather watch games instead.

I'm neither a millennial nor boomer. Just a neutral observer.

 

[ThankGord]

Corsi and Fenwick are garbage stats for Zadina, but the people who keep pointing at them without understanding what they represent don't care because they make him look good. "lol".

Care to explain why they're garbage stats for Zadina specifically to the rest of us uneducated swine?

 

[HisNoodliness]

Care to explain why they're garbage stats for Zadina specifically to the rest of us uneducated swine?

Personally I am of the opinion that Zadina is playing fairly well these days. He works hard in the offensive zone, retrieves the puck a lot, puts pucks towards the goal and gets the puck to his teammates. However it is obvious that he's having a lot of trouble finishing. Because I place a lot of value on shot based metrics, and the general rule that players that shoot more, score more- I think that his shot numbers support the eye test on his generally consistent positive effect in the offensive zone.

One can also argue that it highlights his greatest flaw though. With his lack of overall production, having a ton of shots and shot attempts makes it obvious that he is struggling to finish. If you view this lack of finishing ability as a fundamental flaw with Zadina, and not him still developing, being very snake-bit and thus obviously frustrated- then it is very reasonable to have at least some measure of doubt about his ability to be a top 6 NHL player. If you blindly follow the "more shots!" doctrine of Corsi and Fenwick, then you ignore the argument that they don't capture Zadina's real impact (not saying you're doing this at all).

Regardless, I see enough in Zadina's play to have hope for his future and am hopeful his positive possession impact will result in at least some measure of results eventually. We've seen his shot be very effective. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. We'll see.

 

[ThankGord]

Personally I am of the opinion that Zadina is playing fairly well these days. He works hard in the offensive zone, retrieves the puck a lot, puts pucks towards the goal and gets the puck to his teammates. However it is obvious that he's having a lot of trouble finishing. Because I place a lot of value on shot based metrics, and the general rule that players that shoot more, score more- I think that his shot numbers support the eye test on his generally consistent positive effect in the offensive zone.

One can also argue that it highlights his greatest flaw though. With his lack of overall production, having a ton of shots and shot attempts makes it obvious that he is struggling to finish. If you view this lack of finishing ability as a fundamental flaw with Zadina, and not him still developing, being very snake-bit and thus obviously frustrated- then it is very reasonable to have at least some measure of doubt about his ability to be a top 6 NHL player. If you blindly follow the "more shots!" doctrine of Corsi and Fenwick, then you ignore the argument that they don't capture Zadina's real impact (not saying you're doing this at all).

Regardless, I see enough in Zadina's play to have hope for his future and am hopeful his positive possession impact will result in at least some measure of results eventually. We've seen his shot be very effective. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. We'll see.

Word, I think the advanced stats support what I see on the ice too when it comes to his solid two-way play. But I have to agree he needs to improve his shot location/selection and add some more deception to his offensive game. I'm happy he's firing away though, we've been sorely lacking in in the shots department the past few years.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Thay

Analytics are millennials be-all-end-all... not boomers. Boomers rather watch games instead.

I'm neither a millennial nor boomer. Just a neutral observer.

That’s what I said. If you act like analytics are irrelevant, you are grossly behind the times. They have transformed modern sports, because they work. That’s not to say you ignore context, but acting as if they’re irrelevant is foolish.

 

[Gniwder]

Thay

That’s what I said. If you act like analytics are irrelevant, you are grossly behind the times. They have transformed modern sports, because they work. That’s not to say you ignore context, but acting as if they’re irrelevant is foolish.

You don't need advanced stats to figure out the problem, 5.7 S% this season. That's more than 2 percentage points lower than Helm's career average.

That's why advanced stats don't work for Zadina, xGF assumes the player can shoot.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yes, I definitely have no idea what Corsi and Fenwick are. You caught me.

What you are unable to do is compose an argument that can refute the analytics. If Corsi and Fenwick are garbage stats for Zadina, why aren't they for Larkin, Bertuzzi and Raymond? Why aren't they for the elite players in the league? Why do people pour more money and more resources into analytics year after year after year if they are garbage stats?

Your attempt counter analytics is to suggest I'm an idiot and don't understand what I'm talking about.

You could have just Googled it:
Corsi measures shots on goal, goals, missed shots and blocked shots, whereas Fenwick does not take blocked shots into account.

Not surprised you didn't know what they were. Zadina just "looks good".

 

[14ari13]

Zadina had about 7 shots plus 3 missed the net shots. That is huge.
Raymond would have scored a hat trick.

He can't buy one.
He had 2 or 3 great defensive plays, one in particular.
He has to get an ugly or lucky one and hopefully it will get him going.

I think Blashill should try to move Seider from PP unit 1 to 2 and Leddy to 1 and see if Seider can get pp 2 unit going and the players there at the same time Leddy too.

Seider is the most creative player since Datsyuk, he can get both Zadina and PP going.

 

[Gniwder]

Zadina had about 7 shots plus 3 missed the net shots. That is huge.
Raymond would have scored a hat trick.

He can't buy one.
He had 2 or 3 great defensive plays, one in particular.
He has to get an ugly or lucky one and hopefully it will get him going.

I think Blashill should try to move Seider from PP unit 1 to 2 and Leddy to 1 and see if Seider can get pp 2 unit going and the players there at the same time Leddy too.

Seider is the most creative player since Datsyuk, he can get both Zadina and PP going.

Well, it might help if could get PP1 working....

After a decent start the team is now 15.7% and in 27th place. If the team was even average, we'd be in a wildcard spot right now.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Zadina had about 7 shots plus 3 missed the net shots. That is huge.
Raymond would have scored a hat trick.

He can't buy one.
He had 2 or 3 great defensive plays, one in particular.
He has to get an ugly or lucky one and hopefully it will get him going.

I think Blashill should try to move Seider from PP unit 1 to 2 and Leddy to 1 and see if Seider can get pp 2 unit going and the players there at the same time Leddy too.

Seider is the most creative player since Datsyuk, he can get both Zadina and PP going.

Zadina started the season on pp 1 and spent some time on it with Seider. I think they took him off too soon just as I think they need to make room for Rasmussen on one of the pp units.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You could have just Googled it:
Corsi measures shots on goal, goals, missed shots and blocked shots, whereas Fenwick does not take blocked shots into account.

Not surprised you didn't know what they were. Zadina just "looks good".

I don't know why I missed this, but I'm glad I did at the time. I didn't need to Google it. I know what it is. It's sarcasm, perhaps you could Google that.

I'm not dumb enough to cite stats that I don't understand. I understand them extremely well and appreciate the value that they bring beyond the eye test. Zadina looks good by the eye test, he looks good by the analytics test. The one area he does not look good is finishing off plays.......which is evidenced by the analytics and the eye test. And those analytics go well beyond the Corsi and Fenwick stats that you had to Google to keep up with the conversation.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I don't know why I missed this, but I'm glad I did at the time. I didn't need to Google it. I know what it is. It's sarcasm, perhaps you could Google that.

I'm not dumb enough to cite stats that I don't understand. I understand them extremely well and appreciate the value that they bring beyond the eye test. Zadina looks good by the eye test, he looks good by the analytics test. The one area he does not look good is finishing off plays.......which is evidenced by the analytics and the eye test. And those analytics go well beyond the Corsi and Fenwick stats that you had to Google to keep up with the conversation.

He has 4 goals in 30 games dude.... He was drafted as a goal scorer... 19 in 116 games... Google that too.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He has 4 goals in 30 games dude.... He was drafted as a goal scorer... 19 in 116 games... Google that too.

It's not the sole reason he was drafted, but you keep telling yourself that is all he was/is supposed to do. It's really easy to make yourself seem correct when you manipulate the grounds for argument.

I didn't say he has been a good goal scorer. In fact, I said he's been good at most things besides finishing. I can watch games and see the impacts he has on the ice, and the data tracks with what the eye test shows. He's a positive impact player that has not scored goals at the level that you would expect him to based on the other areas of his game.

 

[newfy]

Zadina looks good by the eye test, he looks good by the analytics test. The one area he does not look good is finishing off plays.......which is evidenced by the analytics and the eye test. And those analytics go well beyond the Corsi and Fenwick stats that you had to Google to keep up with the conversation.

Anyone who disagrees with this statement is just blindly watching games hoping Zadina fails because they have their heels dug in. Zadina looks good, and its frustrating as hell because hes "snake bitten". I'm not sure at what point we stop calling it snake bitten but I have a hard time believing his shooting percentage is going to stay this low for his whole career. As is, hes become a really solid all around player who just needs to finish on his chances.

The stats and they eye test say he should have a break out offensively and it might actually help Detroit get him on a really team friendly deal. He should just go in the basement and rip pucks all off season or something