At 6th Overall the Red Wings Take Filip Zadina

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'd add lack of shot accuracy, but agree with the rest. He's got time though, relative to Nyquist/Tatar developmental curves.

That's the biggest thing I've noticed is shot accuracy. When he has a golden opportunity he seems to fire it into the glove of logo of the goalie.

 

[Retire91]

I feel I am just burnt out on waiting for players with red flags to pan out. Back in the day when Smith, Jurco threads seemed to be constant for like 5-6 years. It's starting to feel like that vibe. Zadina is showing what I think is an unrecoverable ability to do the thing he was drafted for, and a general inability to slot in at any other role. I would honestly be surprised if Zadina is still a wing by 2023.

We see glimpses of the first round talent on the ice but what put pucks in net in juniors is not beating NHL goalies. What got him into scoring position in juniors is not working through NHL defense. And he doesn't seem to have the ability to adjust. The reason I feel this way is even with average linemates a player that is going to have a scoring career would at least be showing some production. 19 goals over 114 games is a pretty abysmal track record for a 6th overall that was drafted for scoring. A 22 year old with roughly a season and a half of NHL games now that is expected to be a first line player should be producing better than that. I am not evaluating based on the 45-65 point pace of an average top 6 player but certainly better than what is being shown.

This inability to produce at a high level at this point is more than just concerning it means he has giant gaps in his game that would take the right amount of coaching or personal dedication to mitigate. A combination of factors that should already be paying dividends if it was working. I am not saying that him reaching a new level of development is not possible but at 22 years old and NHL level already under his belt the prospects of this are getting smaller by the day. He should be past the "he is showing signs", and "needs better line mates" phase. If he needs line mates to produce he is not the right player for a rebuild anyway.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I feel I am just burnt out on waiting for players with red flags to pan out. Back in the day when Smith, Jurco threads seemed to be constant for like 5-6 years. It's starting to feel like that vibe. Zadina is showing what I think is an unrecoverable ability to do the thing he was drafted for, and a general inability to slot in at any other role. I would honestly be surprised if Zadina is still a wing by 2023.

We see glimpses of the first round talent on the ice but what put pucks in net in juniors is not beating NHL goalies. What got him into scoring position in juniors is not working through NHL defense. And he doesn't seem to have the ability to adjust. The reason I feel this way is even with average linemates a player that is going to have a scoring career would at least be showing some production. 19 goals over 114 games is a pretty abysmal track record for a 6th overall that was drafted for scoring. A 22 year old with roughly a season and a half of NHL games now that is expected to be a first line player should be producing better than that. I am not evaluating based on the 45-65 point pace of an average top 6 player but certainly better than what is being shown.

This inability to produce at a high level at this point is more than just concerning it means he has giant gaps in his game that would take the right amount of coaching or personal dedication to mitigate. A combination of factors that should already be paying dividends if it was working. I am not saying that him reaching a new level of development is not possible but at 22 years old and NHL level already under his belt the prospects of this are getting smaller by the day. He should be past the "he is showing signs", and "needs better line mates" phase. If he needs line mates to produce he is not the right player for a rebuild anyway.

Perhaps you should consider re-adjusting your expectations as players develop. If you are tired of waiting, then stop waiting and accept players for who they actually are. Moreover, don't expect other teams to actively want Zadina in a trade. The only players anyone wants to trade around here are the ones they think are bad or who are under performing. Yet these same posters can't explain why other teams would want our bad players. In short, if you think Zadina is a bad player, don't complain about us not trading him.

 

[Retire91]

Perhaps you should consider re-adjusting your expectations as players develop. If you are tired of waiting, then stop waiting and accept players for who they actually are. Moreover, don't expect other teams to actively want Zadina in a trade. The only players anyone wants to trade around here are the ones they think are bad or who are under performing. Yet these same posters can't explain why other teams would want our bad players. In short, if you think Zadina is a bad player, don't complain about us not trading him.

Sorry my dude but there are quite a few zadina posts here and many comments indicating he just needs this or just needs that. Kind of hard to ignore as an active member of a forum that keeps discussing it. Its not about impatience its about recognizing red flags a little earlier than some are willing to admit.

There is still an opportunity to trade him before he is a complete bust he can also be an add to a package to push a trade over the top. I think he still has trade value if positioned as not having the roster he would thrive on, that argument is going to get weaker and weaker as the season progresses.

 

[BinCookin]

Here is the general problem.

Zadina was viewed as possibly being drafted 3rd OA. He fell to us at 6th OA. To be clear when we made the selection. Everyone on this board was very happy with the choice (most everyone). When it was known that Zadina was available he was the majority pick of this board!

Now that being said... How valuable is a 6th OA pick... Well our fans are used to 20th+ OA picks (if they are older fans like me) and a 6th OA sounds great right? Top line player right? We will get a Kyle Connor or a Rantanen or something like that...

But you should also remember the draft position means nothing now.

Sam Gagner was a 6th OA pick guys. Right dime a dozen, mr Nobody... Drafted just as high as Zadina.
Perlini was a 12th OA pick... and failed here.
Fabbri was a 21st OA pick.

The bottom line is MOST NHL players are 1st round picks.
Yes there are some who develop well and some that come from other rounds. But there are only about 600 regular players. This is 1-2 NHL players per year for each team.

Rasmussen is an NHL player... He may never be better than a 3rd / 4th liner.. you know like Sheahan another 1st round pick.
Same goes for Zadina. Kid is good enough to stay in the NHL, But again may never be better than the 3rd/4th line.

Namestnikov has outplayed Zadina, and taken his spot on line 2.

I always am happy when our players work out and produce. But people who are angry just don't understand... Even top 5-10th OA picks are not a guarantee. They just have better odds. Also 2nd rounders and later are all dice rolls.

People thinking Berggren makes the NHL for sure, or McIssac or Veleno... I wouldn't be upset if they don't.
Our only likely for sure prospect is Edvinsson... and he may turn out to be only a 5th-6th D man. Or he may turn into Pietrangelo... who knows.

STOP EXPECTING THE MOON. MOST prospects fail. Or never get close to expectations.
This is why Seider and Raymond looking like both should have gone 1st OA in each draft is amazing right now.
The problem isn't Zadina. The problem is your expectations of him in the first place.
You will all be less angry when you realize that.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Zadina has a good shot, not sure what others are seeing. The problem is that he's terrible at getting/finding enough open ice to get it off with any consistency and that goes for both his wrist shot and slapper, and if he does its often blocked or deflected. He is also terrible at shooting any pass that isn't exactly in his wheel house, he doesn't need to be Ovie out there but he could do a lot better job of getting subpar passes on net.

Missing the net and not picking angles is a "good shot"? Oh.

 

[Hinterland]

Again, he's a great prospect. Unfortunately he got rushed which hurt his development big time and which is why he's consistently making rookie mistakes and why he doesn't have any confidence whatsoever. The Redwings should have been way more patient with him and they should have understood that he was a project. He may never reach his potential due to how he was handled but he's still a good player. For example, he does lead the Redwings in CF% this season. The only forwards even close from him are Veleno, Larkin, Bertuzzi and Raymond but the last three, as the top line, are getting quality ice time including more offensive zone starts. I'm not big into corsi but looking at them, there's Zadina, Veleno, the top line then there's a gap to Suter and Fabbri and then there's a another gap to the bottom six.

 

[Dotter]

19 goals over 114 games is a pretty abysmal track record for a 6th overall that was drafted for scoring.

Looking at that 2018 draft, it doesn't look like he's really underachieving compared to his forward peers. Shaping up to be a weak draft.

 

[Hinterland]

Looking at that 2018 draft, it doesn't look like he's really underachieving compared to his forward peers. Shaping up to be a weak draft.

I don't think the draft was all that weak but many guys, much like Zadina, got their development ruined by their teams. Kotkaniemi, Dellandrea, Wahlstrom etc. The same goes for defensemen like Boqvist or Dahlin.

 

[Henkka]

I don't think the draft was all that weak but many guys, much like Zadina, got their development ruined by their teams. Kotkaniemi, Dellandrea, Wahlstrom etc. The same goes for defensemen like Boqvist or Dahlin.

Could you give some details how the development was ruined?

 

[Frk It]

Again, he's a great prospect. Unfortunately he got rushed which hurt his development big time and which is why he's consistently making rookie mistakes and why he doesn't have any confidence whatsoever. The Redwings should have been way more patient with him and they should have understood that he was a project. He may never reach his potential due to how he was handled but he's still a good player. For example, he does lead the Redwings in CF% this season. The only forwards even close from him are Veleno, Larkin, Bertuzzi and Raymond but the last three, as the top line, are getting quality ice time including more offensive zone starts. I'm not big into corsi but looking at them, there's Zadina, Veleno, the top line then there's a gap to Suter and Fabbri and then there's a another gap to the bottom six.

Was he really that much of a project? I mean - he had a dominant showing against the best U20 players in his draft year, he was listed at 6'0 195 lbs when drafted, etc.

I remember the conversation around Zadina in his draft year being focused around -- how good of an athlete do you think he is, and how much room does have to get better athletically. @The Zetterberg Era literally said exactly this on Zadina before the 2019 draft, and was not high on him because of it.

If he was already pretty maxed out, and was not the best athlete, then I don't know the development path taken is to blame. That may have been an issue regardless.

I am not even saying Zadina is a failure, but some players just fail because they had flaws that could not be improved upon, or because of X/Y/Z. You don't have to make excuses for how they were developed EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

[Hinterland]

Was he really that much of a project? I mean - he had a dominant showing against the best U20 players in his draft year, he was listed at 6'0 195 lbs when drafted, etc.

I remember the conversation around Zadina in his draft year being focused around -- how good of an athlete do you think he is, and how much room does have to get better athletically. @The Zetterberg Era literally said exactly this on Zadina before the 2019 draft, and was not high on him because of it.

If he was already pretty maxed out, and was not the best athlete, then I don't know the development path taken is to blame. That may have been an issue regardless.

I am not even saying Zadina is a failure, but some players just fail because they had flaws that could not be improved upon, or because of X/Y/Z. You don't have to make excuses for how they were developed EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I also always said what I'm saying now...that Zadina is rather raw and will need time. I was upset when they called him up and got a lot of shit here because everybody here was so excited when they did.

We'll never find out but the rookie mistakes we keep on seeing from him as well as him playing with seemingly zero confidence could indicate that I'm not completely wrong.

Also, Zadina is still way better than people give him credit for. Again, his corsi numbers are top of the team. Give the man some quality ice time and linemates and, with growing confidence, he'd be capable of more.

 

[Frk It]

I also always said what I'm saying now...that Zadina is rather raw and will need time. I was upset when they called him up and got a lot of shit here because everybody here was so excited when they did.

We'll never find out but the rookie mistakes we keep on seeing from him as well as him playing with seemingly zero confidence could indicate that I'm not completely wrong.

Also, Zadina is still way better than people give him credit for. Again, his corsi numbers are top of the team. Give the man some quality ice time and linemates and, with growing confidence, he'd be capable of more.

What development path do you think would have been best for him?

I have not given up entirely on him, I think he can still become a good top 6 player personally. With him I always thought he would be a good player as long as he has time and space (power play). I just worried how effective he would be at even strength without adding a step to his skating and also just adjusting to the pro level and playing a bit faster. That area I have not seen as much growth as I’d like. I don’t know if going to the AHL or overseas would have helped or not, personally.

 

[njx9]

Again, his corsi numbers are top of the team.

Who cares? The dude leads the team by a wide margin on shot attempts, which is driving that number. Problem is, he misses completely more often than basically anyone else on the team. It's a misleading stat that doesn't tell you anything about his effectiveness.

 

[Dotter]

He and Rasmussen really developing some nice chemistry together. 12 SOG combined for those two players tonight against a stingy Barry Trotz Islanders team.

 

[Sentinel]

I maintain the appropriate description of Filip Zadina is a "Zadina hat trick": three missed chances.

 

[deca guard]

I maintain the appropriate description of Filip Zadina is a "Zadina hat trick": three missed chances.

a masterful creation of terminology !

 

[appiepi]

Great string of games for Zadina. This is the best he has ever looked while with the wings. He just has to keep this up and good things will happen.

 

[Henkka]

He and Rasmussen really developing some nice chemistry together. 12 SOG combined for those two players tonight against a stingy Barry Trotz Islanders team.

Erne also had 1 shot, so the line had 13 total.

They have had chemistry in the past, I'd like to see them with Veleno, like it was on those Traverse City great lines.

 

[ridilon]

I like how on the 2nd DRW goal last night Ras thought about passing to Zadina on the 2-on-1, but then recalled this hfboards thread about Filip's lack of effective shot and took the snipe himself. Nice game winner for Ras and a good assist to this forum. LGRW!

 

[mikerooooose]

I can't believe the number of people saying he's been having good games. He adds nothing to a line — more often takes away when on top lines or powerplay. Forced passes and bad shot attempts.

Something is off with him though. I really hope he puts it all together this year. Maybe when Vrana comes back.

But he has not been good at all. You could replace him with literally anyone, lol.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I like how on the 2nd DRW goal last night Ras thought about passing to Zadina on the 2-on-1, but then recalled this hfboards thread about Filip's lack of effective shot and took the snipe himself. Nice game winner for Ras and a good assist to this forum. LGRW!

You know you are having a bad season when even Rasmussen thinks he has a better shot of scoring than you do.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

You know you are having a bad season when even Rasmussen thinks he has a better shot of scoring than you do.

Hahaha. In all fairness to Zadina, Ras still leads the team in Ras Hatties (3 EN misses)....he only missed 2 technically during that 1 game, but it felt like 3.

 

[izlez]

There are currently 177 NHL players in between Draisaitl and Zadina in the xGF% rankings

 

[Hen Kolland]

There are currently 177 NHL players in between Draisaitl and Zadina in the xGF% rankings

I suppose next you're going to tell me that Patrice Bergeron, David Pastrnak and Brad Marchand all being top 10 in xGF% is merely a coincidence and has nothing to do with the fact that they are the best line in all of hockey? I imagine that you probably think that it's a coincidence that McDavid's xGF% is 56%? Or Rantanen at 63? or Matthews at 62? or Point at 61?

In fact, I bet I can find more people that pass my sniff test than you can find that discredit analytics.

Why don't you scroll the bottom of the xGF% rankings and report back at how unpredictive it is.