At 30th Overall the Red Wings Select Centre Joe Veleno

[izlez]

It's kind of weird watching Veleno's video after Seider's. I find myself trying to convince myself that Veleno can be a good NHLer...a 2nd liner. After watching Seider's I'm trying to convince myself that he WON'T be the best defenseman in the NHL.

Even if he caps out as "the league's best 3C" (remember when Holland called Helm that? LOL.) that's not the end of the world. It'll free up Raz to play wing.

It's more understandable because it's a Veleno thread. But if Veleno fails as a 2nd line center and becomes a 3rd liner, that frees up Rasmussen to play wing?? Because Raz is a 3rd liner at best? Although he plays center in GR? Center on the first line ahead of Veleno? Where he had a better PPG than Veleno? And a better +/- than Veleno? And was drafter higher than Veleno? Rasmussen is ahead of Veleno and Veleno has to do everything he can to pass Raz and earn a higher spot

 

[MBH]

Veleno could still be a 2c. Who knows?
Say we draft Byfield or Stutzle. 5 years from now
Byfield/Stutzle
Larkin
Veleno
Whoever

That could be championship caliber down the middle

Rasmussen Byfield Zadina
Bertuzzi Larkin Mantha
Svechnikov Veleno Mastrosimone

Other options for wing: Berggren, Givani Smith, Mastrosimone, Grewe, Sodberblom etc

 

[Hen Kolland]

It's kind of weird watching Veleno's video after Seider's. I find myself trying to convince myself that Veleno can be a good NHLer...a 2nd liner. After watching Seider's I'm trying to convince myself that he WON'T be the best defenseman in the NHL.



It's more understandable because it's a Veleno thread. But if Veleno fails as a 2nd line center and becomes a 3rd liner, that frees up Rasmussen to play wing?? Because Raz is a 3rd liner at best? Although he plays center in GR? Center on the first line ahead of Veleno? Where he had a better PPG than Veleno? And a better +/- than Veleno? And was drafter higher than Veleno? Rasmussen is ahead of Veleno and Veleno has to do everything he can to pass Raz and earn a higher spot

This just in....

Second year pro selected in the top 10 with NHL game experience is better prepared for AHL hockey than a draft year younger, first year pro selected 30th overall.

I understand that you represent the disenfranchised Rasmussen, but the argument you are trying to make isn’t exactly proving or disproving anything.

 

[lomekian]

I think he would struggle to play with elite wingers because I do not think he has the requisite hockey IQ. You don't need to be the most skilled player to play with high-end players, but you absolutely do need to be a very smart player to do so (think Bert vs. Abby). Again, I think we are in trouble if we are counting on him to be our second-line center. I would encourage you to think about how robotic he looks when he plays. I don't think he has an innate understanding of where is line mates are and where pressure is coming from.

Just my two cents though.

It all depends on levels. He meshed really well with Laf at the WJC. I think it would require both wingers to be a higher level than him, but depending on the lottery this year, we might not be too far from that reality. Agree in an ideal world he's a 3 C, but it all depends who our best players are.

 

[Frk It]

I very much disagree. I think he is most likely a high-end third line center. There is nothing elite about his play with the puck in my eyes and he is not nearly as smart as people make him out to be. He spends a lot of time chasing the puck. He is a bit of a robot to me. He is skilled and a good skater, but nothing in his play strikes me as natural. Everything feels jerky or forced. He is very fascinating in that regard because he can skate and has above average technical skill.

I think he would struggle to play with elite wingers because I do not think he has the requisite hockey IQ. You don't need to be the most skilled player to play with high-end players, but you absolutely do need to be a very smart player to do so (think Bert vs. Abby). Again, I think we are in trouble if we are counting on him to be our second-line center. I would encourage you to think about how robotic he looks when he plays. I don't think he has an innate understanding of where is line mates are and where pressure is coming from.

Just my two cents though.

I get where you're coming from, but I find it to be a bit hypercritical. I could still see him being a Derek Stepan type 2C some day, if he has a productive year in GR and keeps progressing (Although I think good 3C is more likely). I get the robotic assessment, but I don't feel he is nearly as dumb as you are implying.

 

[lomekian]

It's kind of weird watching Veleno's video after Seider's. I find myself trying to convince myself that Veleno can be a good NHLer...a 2nd liner. After watching Seider's I'm trying to convince myself that he WON'T be the best defenseman in the NHL.



It's more understandable because it's a Veleno thread. But if Veleno fails as a 2nd line center and becomes a 3rd liner, that frees up Rasmussen to play wing?? Because Raz is a 3rd liner at best? Although he plays center in GR? Center on the first line ahead of Veleno? Where he had a better PPG than Veleno? And a better +/- than Veleno? And was drafter higher than Veleno? Rasmussen is ahead of Veleno and Veleno has to do everything he can to pass Raz and earn a higher spot

Different players. It all really depends on who else is around as Ras could be a winger, and it might be better for the team for him to be one if we draft a byfield

 

[Henkka]

This is how I see it, in few years.

Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Byfield/Stutzle - Fabbri
Swedish 4th line (Berggren/Crewe/Ehn/Söderblom/Timashov)

 

[Hen Kolland]

This is how I see it, in few years.

Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Byfield/Stutzle - Fabbri
Swedish 4th line (Berggren/Crewe/Ehn/Söderblom/Timashov)

If Byfield or Stutzle are no better than third line centers in a few years, I will be absolutely shocked, and our player development staff should probably be canned.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

This is how I see it, in few years.

Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Byfield/Stutzle - Fabbri
Swedish 4th line (Berggren/Crewe/Ehn/Söderblom/Timashov)

I could see:

Zadina-Larkin-Mantha
Bert-Veleno-Fabbri
Ras/Stutzle-Ras/Stutzle-Berggren

Smith-Soderblom-Timashov
Mastorsimone-Grewe

 

[Henkka]

If Byfield or Stutzle are no better than third line centers in a few years, I will be absolutely shocked, and our player development staff should probably be canned.

Who said that they would be 3rd line centers?

 

[jkutswings]

If Detroit hopes to eventually win a Cup, one or both of Larkin/Mantha should be a phenomenal second line guy, instead of just a good first liner.

Maybe they still use a guy like Bert for sandpaper. But for scoring, assuming Dylan and Anthony don't find another gear on a regular basis, it'll be Zadina and a Laf/Byfield/Stutzle/<insert high draft pick not yet on roster> that end up as the best forwards on the top line.

 

[Gniwder]

It's kind of weird watching Veleno's video after Seider's. I find myself trying to convince myself that Veleno can be a good NHLer...a 2nd liner. After watching Seider's I'm trying to convince myself that he WON'T be the best defenseman in the NHL.



It's more understandable because it's a Veleno thread. But if Veleno fails as a 2nd line center and becomes a 3rd liner, that frees up Rasmussen to play wing?? Because Raz is a 3rd liner at best? Although he plays center in GR? Center on the first line ahead of Veleno? Where he had a better PPG than Veleno? And a better +/- than Veleno? And was drafter higher than Veleno? Rasmussen is ahead of Veleno and Veleno has to do everything he can to pass Raz and earn a higher spot

I haven't seen anything out of either player that would indicate anything other than 3rd liner in the NHL and possibly PP time for Raz. I mean seriously, neither have put up Mitch Callahan type numbers, and he never even made the team.

Granted Veleno has speed and Raz has size so they might make the NHL, but they haven't done anything to impress yet. Sure, they're both young so I'm not giving up on them yet. Plus in Raz' case, taller players tend to take a bit longer to develop.

 

[Ulysses31]

IF we get Laf could Fabbri play 2C?

Bert-Fabbri-Zadina maybe and then Laf-larkin- mantha

3rd rasmussen-Veleno- Timashov/perlini/leipsic

 

[Oddbob]

This is how I see it, in few years.

Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi/Rasmussen/Smith - Byfield/Stutzle - Fabbri
Swedish 4th line (Berggren/Grewe/Ehn/Soderblom/Timashov)

No offence but if either Bertuzzi or Smith are on our top line in 2-3 years, than we have a crappy 1st line. I like Bertuzzi and a lot of what he brings to the table, but he is a 2nd liner at best, as he is not consistent at all offensively. Smith is an agitator/grinder who will likely never be offensive or anything close to it in the NHL. He has just a good a chance of being a bubble NHL'er/career AHL'er as he does even becoming a regular 3rd liner.

To me in reality, that 4th line, we will be lucky if any of them are in the NHL ever, as Ehn is already replaceable, Timashov was a waiver claim, and usually you don't get lucky and have 3 lower tier prospects all be regulars, or even all playing. I think projecting NHL rosters 2-3 years out, is a crapshoot as so many things can happen, and nowadays there is a decent level of turnover to NHL rosters. Maybe before the cap you would have a good stretch of the same players like we did for a number of years, but now with less talent throughout rosters, you are generally replacing 2-5 guys every season. Take our team for example, guys like Ehn, Erne, Bowey, Perlini and Biega all either need to be gone or a great case can be made to not want them back next season, especially Perlini, Biega and Bowey.

 

[Oddbob]

If Detroit hopes to eventually win a Cup, one or both of Larkin/Mantha should be a phenomenal second line guy, instead of just a good first liner.

Maybe they still use a guy like Bert for sandpaper. But for scoring, assuming Dylan and Anthony don't find another gear on a regular basis, it'll be Zadina and a Laf/Byfield/Stutzle/<insert high draft pick not yet on roster> that end up as the best forwards on the top line.

I honestly think Larkin is more than good enough to be a 1st line center. He already plays hard and quite well 2 ways, and he plays with lower tier linemates from an offensive perspective. Mantha is always hurt and inconsistent when healthy, while Bertuzzi is also inconsistent offensively and doesn't appear to be a 1st liner to me. These 3 have great chemistry together, but that doesn't mean either of the other two are good 1st line material.

 

[Henkka]

You guys never seem to have understand balanced lines and deep Top9 offence.

Like how we had that same freaking thing in our past on the success era, but that seems totally forgotten.

Givani Smith could be next Tomas Holmström and play with the 2 best skilled guys like Zeta and Dats were. It's definitely not an option, which is a total no-no for hockey coaches. That leaves better talent on lower lines, which will kill opposite team lower lines. etc. It's a realistic option, which we will see, if the chemistries on other lines work as well.

That how great teams are built.

 

[Retire91]

You guys never seem to have understand balanced lines and deep Top9 offence.

Like how we had that same freaking thing in our past on the success era, but that seems totally forgotten.

Givani Smith could be next Tomas Holmström and play with the 2 best skilled guys like Zeta and Dats were. It's definitely not an option, which is a total no-no for hockey coaches. That leaves better talent on lower lines, which will kill opposite team lower lines. etc. It's a realistic option, which we will see, if the chemistries on other lines work as well.

That how great teams are built.

Yes I think nothing underscores this more than the last couple of seasons the wings have no threat outside of the first line. Our first line just holds water against the other team's best defensive unit and then the rest of the roster gets destroyed by every other match up. If the wings had even one more legit NHL line on the roster it would be night and day splitting up the other team's defensive units.

Take any team in the NHL and delete our first unit and the other team's best defensive unit. Then match up the next top two lines and then feel depressed.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I like G Smith but I think expecting him to be that guy is both unfair and unneeded. We already have two players who can play Holmstrom’s role well, Bertuzzi and Rasmussen, the latter of whom I see as incredibly undersold. I still think he’s a 25 goal pp specialist at his peak. Whether that was worth a 9th OA idk, but I still think he’ll be a valuable player. He’s only getting stronger and thicker

 

[newfy]

No offence but if either Bertuzzi or Smith are on our top line in 2-3 years, than we have a crappy 1st line. I like Bertuzzi and a lot of what he brings to the table, but he is a 2nd liner at best, as he is not consistent at all offensively. Smith is an agitator/grinder who will likely never be offensive or anything close to it in the NHL. He has just a good a chance of being a bubble NHL'er/career AHL'er as he does even becoming a regular 3rd liner.

To me in reality, that 4th line, we will be lucky if any of them are in the NHL ever, as Ehn is already replaceable, Timashov was a waiver claim, and usually you don't get lucky and have 3 lower tier prospects all be regulars, or even all playing. I think projecting NHL rosters 2-3 years out, is a crapshoot as so many things can happen, and nowadays there is a decent level of turnover to NHL rosters. Maybe before the cap you would have a good stretch of the same players like we did for a number of years, but now with less talent throughout rosters, you are generally replacing 2-5 guys every season. Take our team for example, guys like Ehn, Erne, Bowey, Perlini and Biega all either need to be gone or a great case can be made to not want them back next season, especially Perlini, Biega and Bowey.

Bertuzzi on the first line would not mean the first line is crappy at all, are you serious? Bertuzzi is scoring 20+ goals and 50 points consistently over an 82 game pace since his NHL career started basically on horrible teams. 2 years from now, hes going to be a better player than a guy like Dan Cleary who spent a lot of time on the wings top line. Holmstrom wasnt a better hockey player than Bertuzzi. Tom Wilson plays on one of the best lines in hockey

 

[MBH]

Bertuzzi on the first line would not mean the first line is crappy at all, are you serious? Bertuzzi is scoring 20+ goals and 50 points consistently over an 82 game pace since his NHL career started basically on horrible teams. 2 years from now, hes going to be a better player than a guy like Dan Cleary who spent a lot of time on the wings top line. Holmstrom wasnt a better hockey player than Bertuzzi. Tom Wilson plays on one of the best lines in hockey

Yeah, if the other two guys have elite skill, Bert is a fine compliment.
I do think he's probably better suited for L2.
But 3-4 years from now, if your top line is Bertuzzi-Byfield-Zadina, Bert's up for the job.

 

[MBH]

I like G Smith but I think expecting him to be that guy is both unfair and unneeded. We already have two players who can play Holmstrom’s role well, Bertuzzi and Rasmussen, the latter of whom I see as incredibly undersold. I still think he’s a 25 goal pp specialist at his peak. Whether that was worth a 9th OA idk, but I still think he’ll be a valuable player. He’s only getting stronger and thicker

I think Bertuzzi also has the skill to work the wall.

 

[MBH]

IF we get Laf could Fabbri play 2C?

Bert-Fabbri-Zadina maybe and then Laf-larkin- mantha

3rd rasmussen-Veleno- Timashov/perlini/leipsic

Leipsic?

 

[Ulysses31]

Leipsic?

ya he looked good on caps with limited ice time on games i saw. was 0.5ppg on kings. hes ufa could prolly get him for league min. contract.

 

[BeersHockey]

People are severely overlooking how high Bert’s hockey IQ is. I get that he doesn’t look flashy or slick out there, but he’s playing several steps ahead. Ideally I’d have him playing with Zadina next year.

 

[BeersHockey]

ya he looked good on caps with limited ice time on games i saw. was 0.5ppg on kings. hes ufa could prolly get him for league min. contract.

The guy that got his contract terminated by the Caps after his texts trashing his teammates and saying nasty things about women got leaked? No thanks. Also he signed in the KHL already.