At 30th Overall the Red Wings Select Centre Joe Veleno

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I very much disagree. I think he is most likely a high-end third line center. There is nothing elite about his play with the puck in my eyes and he is not nearly as smart as people make him out to be. He spends a lot of time chasing the puck. He is a bit of a robot to me. He is skilled and a good skater, but nothing in his play strikes me as natural. Everything feels jerky or forced. He is very fascinating in that regard because he can skate and has above average technical skill.

Huh? The guy was one of the younger players in the AHL this year and took a month to really acclimate to the league, and started to become a very productive player after the WJCU20 confidence boost. He was chasing the puck a lot because as the best skater on his line, he was usually forechecker. In transition he was often the late player joining the rush and was given more defensive responsibilities than his wingers. Early in the season his role was providing D support and head-manning the puck to a winger but after the WJC he started to skate it out of the zone a lot more.

Veleno will be fine. At the low end I think he'll be a very good, skilled defensive 3C like an Alyn McCauley. On the high end he has 1B center potential much like Larkin. I think realistically he hits the middle ground and becomes the Brendan Morrison/Paul Stastny defensive anchor to a line of super skilled wingers (Maybe Lafrenierre and Zadina?!) A guy who would be the 2nd line center on a team with more center depth but his defensive and complimentary skills allow him to play with the best offensive players.

 

[lilidk]

I very much disagree. I think he is most likely a high-end third line center. There is nothing elite about his play with the puck in my eyes and he is not nearly as smart as people make him out to be. He spends a lot of time chasing the puck. He is a bit of a robot to me. He is skilled and a good skater, but nothing in his play strikes me as natural. Everything feels jerky or forced. He is very fascinating in that regard because he can skate and has above average technical skill.

Just little upgrade over Helm

 

[raymond23]

I very much disagree. I think he is most likely a high-end third line center. There is nothing elite about his play with the puck in my eyes and he is not nearly as smart as people make him out to be. He spends a lot of time chasing the puck. He is a bit of a robot to me. He is skilled and a good skater, but nothing in his play strikes me as natural. Everything feels jerky or forced. He is very fascinating in that regard because he can skate and has above average technical skill.

The bolded I completely agree with. You put it into words better than I could have.

I think realistically he can be 2c in the mold of a prime Filppula but I’m always hopeful for more.

He does strike me as a player/person with a longer development curve. Seems like a really good kid.

 

[Gniwder]

Just little upgrade over Helm

Interestingly enough, AHL stats are similar but Helm was older when he played in GR. I think it's too early to say that's what his ceiling is though. I have faith that Joe can at least finish on a breakaway.

Even if he caps out as "the league's best 3C" (remember when Holland called Helm that? LOL.) that's not the end of the world. It'll free up Raz to play wing.

 

[Retire91]

To me he is one of those sink or swim prospects. I feel its better to let him develop in the NHL at this point and if he fill his role then great and if he doesn't then at least the case is closed and we don't go 3-4 more years thinking we have a potential 2-3 center.

 

[raymond23]

To me he is one of those sink or swim prospects. I feel its better to let him develop in the NHL at this point and if he fill his role then great and if he doesn't then at least the case is closed and we don't go 3-4 more years thinking we have a potential 2-3 center.

What’s the rush?

He wasn’t even supposed to be in the AHL last year if not for his exceptional status.

 

[simonedvinsson]

What’s the rush?

He wasn’t even supposed to be in the AHL last year if not for his exceptional status.

Agreed. He was not a top 10 pick, and he "fell" for a reason. He's got time, and it'd be better for him to thrive in the AHL playing twenty minutes a night than playing a limited 4th line role in Detroit. I'd rather see Rasmussen and Seider in the lineup than Veleno at this point. From what I saw last year, Veleno is going to need more time in the AHL before he's ready for the jump.

 

[Konnan511]

What is his ceiling? A 2nd line C/W? If so, a line with Larkin, Veleno and Fabbri would be pretty filthy

I'm a HUGE Veleno fan and I see him as a Zetterberg-lite. Good at everything, master of none. Amazing 3rd line center, Good 2nd line center, fill in a pinch 1st line center.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm a HUGE Veleno fan and I see him as a Zetterberg-lite. Good at everything, master of none. Amazing 3rd line center, Good 2nd line center, fill in a pinch 1st line center.

Zetterberg was a master at protecting the puck, passing to the seem and shutting down his opposition as a matchup center. I get you said lite, but Zetterberg was one of the best 10 players on the planet, even top 5 for a few years, but really for a really good stretch of time. He might have been industrious, but he was more than good at some things.

I am not sure Veleno will have the offense in his game at the next level. Then again if things pan out in our rebuild he should have some pretty talented wingers to help him be more offensively. How steady and consistent he plays the game might allow him to be weaponized by some of our elite wingers.

 

[lilidk]

Interestingly enough, AHL stats are similar but Helm was older when he played in GR. I think it's too early to say that's what his ceiling is though. I have faith that Joe can at least finish on a breakaway.

Even if he caps out as "the league's best 3C" (remember when Holland called Helm that? LOL.) that's not the end of the world. It'll free up Raz to play wing.

Helm is very important for this organization, but then behind D&Z he was great

 

[lomekian]

To me he is one of those sink or swim prospects. I feel its better to let him develop in the NHL at this point and if he fill his role then great and if he doesn't then at least the case is closed and we don't go 3-4 more years thinking we have a potential 2-3 center.

That does seem contradictory to his entire development curve to date though, which has been incremental and pretty linear, taking small to medium steps forward every year

 

[lomekian]

Zetterberg was a master at protecting the puck, passing to the seem and shutting down his opposition as a matchup center. I get you said lite, but Zetterberg was one of the best 10 players on the planet, even top 5 for a few years, but really for a really good stretch of time. He might have been industrious, but he was more than good at some things.

I am not sure Veleno will have the offense in his game at the next level. Then again if things pan out in our rebuild he should have some pretty talented wingers to help him be more offensively. How steady and consistent he plays the game might allow him to be weaponized by some of our elite wingers.

Maybe lite lite? I agree with your projection. I think he's a guy who will mesh really well with very talented wingers, as he seems to elevate his game slightly in better company.I don't ever see him anchoring a powerhouse line, but if we went for a more rounded line up, i can see him being a great link between a real skill guy on one wing and a tough grinder with hands on the other. A guy who will slot in behind Larkin either as 2c or 3c depending on our draft options/choices.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If we land the #1 pick. I call Buffalo and offer them #1 and Veleno for Eichel. They probably laugh Yzerman off the phone but I still make that call in a heartbeat.

 

[FabricDetails]

Zetterberg was a master at protecting the puck, passing to the seem and shutting down his opposition as a matchup center. I get you said lite, but Zetterberg was one of the best 10 players on the planet, even top 5 for a few years, but really for a really good stretch of time. He might have been industrious, but he was more than good at some things.

I am not sure Veleno will have the offense in his game at the next level. Then again if things pan out in our rebuild he should have some pretty talented wingers to help him be more offensively. How steady and consistent he plays the game might allow him to be weaponized by some of our elite wingers.

Is Zetterberg the best defensive player to have never won a Selke?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Is Zetterberg the best defensive player to have never won a Selke?

Mostly because the award pre-dates him, it is probably Dave Keon

 

[MBH]

Mostly because the award pre-dates him, it is probably Dave Keon

Hossa was pretty damn good.

And honestly, I'd say Maltby was a better defensive player than any of the offensive guys who win Selkes.

Truth is, there are a lot of guys around the NHL like Maltby who deserved Selke consideration.

 

[MBH]

I'm a HUGE Veleno fan and I see him as a Zetterberg-lite. Good at everything, master of none. Amazing 3rd line center, Good 2nd line center, fill in a pinch 1st line center.

I hope so.
I noted three things last year.
1) His skating didn't impress me. He skates fine. But it's not the plus like it is with truly elite skaters.
2) His defensive zone play without the puck in the prospect tournament and in exhibition games was really awful. I didn't see a ton of GR games, but it's not hard to believe he earned some of that -25.
3) His zone entries weren't as good as they'd been the previous year during the exhibition season of his D+1 year, when I thought he'd made a decent case for making the NHL.

I don't know if the Q was too easy for him if he picked up bad habits, but he just didn't seem like that guy who looked like a lock for a 2c.

I'm hoping he takes a major step forward.
Maybe something close to .75 points per game by midseason gets him a callup.

 

[odin1981]

If we understand Steve's approach with TB, it is most likely he will refine his game in the ahl until he is 21-22 years old. Don't expect him to be on the team without a injury call up much before then.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Is Zetterberg the best defensive player to have never won a Selke?

Since the 2005 lockout, yes. I've ranted a few times on HF about how he should have been the winner in certain years. The fact that he only had a single top 3 finish is alarming. You'd have thought that his performance shadowing and shutting down Crosby in TWO consecutive finals would have opened the eyes of the voters.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

If we land the #1 pick. I call Buffalo and offer them #1 and Veleno for Eichel. They probably laugh Yzerman off the phone but I still make that call in a heartbeat.

Value wise I’d do it in a heartbeat as well, but I’d think you’d have to speak to Eichel as well beforehand. I can see him having near the exact same issues here than he did in Buffalo in regards to wanting to win.

Also would we make him the immediate C?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Value wise I’d do it in a heartbeat as well, but I’d think you’d have to speak to Eichel as well beforehand. I can see him having near the exact same issues here than he did in Buffalo in regards to wanting to win.

Also would we make him the immediate C?

I would still put the C on Larks, just like the USMNTDP. Those two are very close friends and when you put Eichel with Zadina and another winger plus keep the MLB line together I think we are a lot better. I can see him buying in, we would still need to work on the D but I just think that is your #1 & #2c battery built. I bet he trusts Yzerman a lot more than what he has had in Buffalo too.

 

[Shaman464]

I seem him as a Jordan Staal if the stars align. Good defensive center that's good for 0.5ppg.

 

[Retire91]

It's not a rush but rather maximizing the timing of your assets. Its to see what Veleno can do at the next level. If he is a legit player his development curve will continue in the NHL and we have plenty of ice time to give him there. If he doesn't develop any further then he is not going to be an impact player anyway and we will know that sooner rather than later. If he is the next Helm lite why not have him practice with helm and watch him play 82 games a year.

Another couple of years in the AHL just to season a 3rd line center we could replace any given month off the waiver wire is not an asset this organization needs to care about right now. Someone that can show they can accelerate their development curve in the big league is. So sending him up tells us if he is an impact player. If he is his development curve improves with NHL experience, if he isn't then it never mattered anyway and you know you have a hole in your roster that needs addressed.

 

[newfy]

It’d be a waste to not play valeno at center imo. He is a prototypical center. I don’t understand the offensive knocks against him either. In flashes he shows the ability to make elite creative plays. Everyone saying his ceiling is 2nd line 40-50 point center. I think that’s his floor.

When I watch him, I dont see a killer instinct offensively that I would expect big numbers from him. 50 points seems pretty good. I think hes going to be a guy that when you watch him though, you come away thinking he impacts the game a lot more than just his points though. Hes great with zone entries and carrying the puck. I think the advanced stats crowd will love him.

I actually think a really fair comparison for him is Backlund. Really good all around player that can play up high in the line up if you need him but doesnt put up crazy numbers.

Hossa was pretty damn good.

And honestly, I'd say Maltby was a better defensive player than any of the offensive guys who win Selkes.

Truth is, there are a lot of guys around the NHL like Maltby who deserved Selke consideration.

Hossas defensive game is starting to get overrated now that hes gone from the league. He isnt close to the best to never win a Selke. They actually just had something about this on the Athletic. He was a really solid defensive winger for a long time, but was never a selke calibre type guy or had a season where he should've gotten serious consideration for it either.

Guys like Trottier, Keon and Zetterberg were definitely better than Hossa.

 

[TCNorthstars]

If we land the #1 pick. I call Buffalo and offer them #1 and Veleno for Eichel. They probably laugh Yzerman off the phone but I still make that call in a heartbeat.

You may be missing a couple of other first round picks from the Wings!