egelband
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He was great. And you’re right, he wasn’t fast but he knew where to go before the other players did. So in that respect he played fast.
Prospect Info: At 16th Overall the Rangers Select Brennan Othmann
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This was special…my favorite player slapping home a penalty shot while playing with a broken hand (he couldn’t stick handle)…all on my birthday!
Optical illusion. You’re watching Buch against some of the fastest skaters in hockey. Othmann, not so much.
Speed aside, Buch is 100x a better skater right now.
Erm, CHECK Elite prospects links. Hockeywriters and others. “Doesn’t have the speed of others in this draft”. AND bad techniques. And this wasn’t exactly the Ferrari draft class.
egelband
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I think we shouldn’t be so quick to put down this draft class. Time will tell. A lot of these guys didn’t even get to play regular pre-draft seasons. And scouts I imagine couldn’t get to as many games as they would have liked to. And we know how bad a lot of the video coverage is outside the nhl. So I think that it’s very up-in-the-air as to how good this draft class is.
Fair. It's just not a sexy draft. I'm sure a number of the players will end up as good to great players though. When the first thing they say about the best center in the draft is, "a very safe player with a 200ft game" it just doesn't sell a whole lot of extra tickets. But if Powers does end up like Pronger, like everyone was comparing him to, a lot of teams are going to wish they had the first pick this year, in hindsight. And I do think Beniers could be better than people think. I don't know if Toews is a great comparison stylistically, but I think if he can put up similar numbers and at least be top notch in every zone, and lead a team. That's probably better in the long run than a lot of other players in flashy years. Beniers would look pretty good as our franchise center actually. I would probably do that right now the way everything has played out. Think they would take Kakko for him? If we could only go back in time and trade our 2nd pick for the Seattle team, that doesn't then yet exists 2021 1st round pick. They would have snatched it up in a heartbeat.
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I agree for sure. It’s so complex that it’s probably impossible to speculate on how it will pan out.
And I’ve seen some references to how next years draft will be better because it’s been “free” of Covid. I think that as a rule, the younger you were during the “Covid years”, the less opportunity you had to practice. How will a 11 y/o missing a year react? 12? 13? 14? 15? 16? I wouldn’t want to speculate on which draft is hurt the “most”. And at some point, if everyone are affected, the overall quality comes down so it becomes a bit of a wash maybe.
I really don’t know the kids in this years draft class, but I’ve watched enough of YT (including full shifts from games etc) to get a grip of Othman’s skating.
He has really fast feet’s but a classic flaw in his skating. He “runs” way to much on his skates. But it’s important to remember that this is how you are supposed to skate the first 4-5 strides, ie when you accelerate. As a result, in short spurts, chasing pucks in the attacking zone or whatever, he is without any doubt a very very good skater. Going the length of the ice, here it will show.
Can this be fixed? I don’t know, I don’t have insight into how the top skating coaches work today and what they can accomplish. BUT all I know is that what I played two decades ago you had people skating like this all over the hockey world and many did in the NHL. Shawn Antoski anyone? Now very few of anyone does.
In short, I think it’s very important to make a distinction between quick and explosive players and the ones who has a little slower feet’s. Othman can be a nightmare to face as a D and he can hunt Ds down really well,
I’m sure he can improve. He’s not alone in that. Lots of young guys, especially power forwards need skating improvement coming into the pros.
I thought perhaps this was one of the reasons Sens took Boucher so early even though he wasn’t tabbed to go until much later. But his skating is great. I actually think Rangers might have been looking at him. So Sens didn’t want to risk it trading back,
I don’t think his offensive ceiling is as high as Othmanns but his floor is higher and he will be ready sooner. NOt sure who would win in a fight but I’d have to bet Boucher too. He’s probably the beastiest forward in the draft class.
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Hunter Gathers
The Crown
He's currently working with a power skating coach, so I'm pretty confident that he's going to improve his skating.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Not being the best skater in your draft class is something different than being "a bad skater".
No. He IS a bad skater. But not being the fastest guy in your draft is different than being "slow". I agree. But he's not fast either. His speed at best, is average. And his skating is absolutely terrible in NHL terms. And no one thinks he is a good skater.
Funny, EP graded him as a 5.5 skater which puts him in the above average category.
Don’t care what most of the other publications have to say. They mostly just parrot info off of one another. If it isn’t BB or Redline or McKenzie, I don’t give it much attention.
also why do we have to listen to the words of others when we can just watch the guy and form our own opinions. He isn’t slow lol. This is being perpetuated by you and EJ who has basically been broken since Buchnevich was traded.
Well, the thing is, when most people do watch the video of him, I think they come away thinking he's not a good skater. If you see differently, maybe you see something others don't.
And I don't see why BB, Redline and McKenzie are "good" sources and others are not. McKenzie is like the Mel Kiper of hockey. That's not necessarily a good thing. I pretty much find Kiper isn't much better than many others either. But the success rate in hockey is so much lower than the NFL anyway. Every scout and every outlet and every GM is going to be wrong substantially more than they are right. The NHL draft has a systemically low success rate. A lot like MLB. Partly because in both you are dealing with younger kids who are further away from the pros, many years out in some cases, which isn't the case in NBA/NFL.
Which is why aggregate is usually the way to go, just in general. And it's why the success rate in the first round picks 1-5, is higher than 6-11 which is all substantially higher than 12-20, which is higher than 21- the end of the round. And then once you get to round 2 in the NHL draft, the success rate just plummets.
But aggregate clearly shows that the vast majority think he's at best average speed and subpar skating. Subpar skating can be fixed though, so it's not the end of the world. Bo Horvat is a great example of someone who came into the draft with skating concerns. And by the time he was in the NHL he was a completely different skater.
I just don't understand this "Don't care what most of the publications have to say. They just parrot info off of one another." Um, that's what EVERYONE has done since the CSS came into the picture. It's the lamppost effect. "A cop walking down the street sees a guy anxiously searching the ground under a lamppost for something. He walks over and asks "What are you looking for?" The man says "I dropped my watch and I can't find it. " The cop says "I'll help you look." They spend ten to fifteen minutes searching and the cop throws up his arms and says "Well, I can't see anything. Where exactly did you lose it?" The man straightens up, points across the street and says "over there, by the park." The cop gets a confused look on his face and asks "Then why are you looking over here?" The man shrugs his shoulders and says "Because this is where the light is."
You basically have every club, every scout, every GM looking at the same basic information. And sure, each club has their own scouts at all different levels and then analytics and a head scout. And those do make a difference. But they are still are largely using the same resources and so are websites, internet scouts, hockey writers etc.. And since the success rate is so low, you are going to have a lot of the same choices being made and things being said across the board. Which is why it's such a big deal when a team reaches in the 1st round. And they use aggregates too, or they consider them at least in their decisions. But there's no reason those few outlets you chose should be, statistically better than many others. Do you have some statistical analysis of their success/failure rates that you are basing this on or something? Like is their some report or analysis that actually tracks all the sources and all their choices and then all their draft lists and then years later, analyzes the player outcomes compared to those? If there is, I don't know about it. Otherwise, it's just as much a subjective choice as using countless of other outlets. And there's no real reason to think they would be more accurate or have a better opinion. I am sure there are a lot of average, amateur ones. Web pages started by fan bases and so on. But the commercial outlets, the ones that do this for a living, and the media outlets that depend on this kind of material for their audiences, probably put in the work for their opinion to be just as educated, with just as much chance for success as those you mentioned. Ie Hockeywriters, Sportsnet, ESPN/TSN, Sportingnews, Eliteprospects and a bunch of others.
But as you said you can watch him and we all can watch him and come to our own conclusions. And most people that do seem to come to a similar conclusion, that he's got a whole lot of work to do with his skating before he gets to the NHL.
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Amazing Kreiderman
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Bondra slapshot
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His skating definitely looks awkward, and there should be lots of room for improvement.
I'm not really sure what impact that has on the pick though. It isn't like nobody could see that his gait is a bit odd, much less the professional scouts who can break the mechanics down much better.
But he was still consistently ranked inside the top20, because the rest of his game transcended that. Poor skating can be a very difficult thing for players to change, but not every guy is a speed demon. If he's finishing his chances, punishing guys with his physical play, and making smart decisions each shift, then he doesn't need to be the guy who's blowing defenders away on the rush.
I'm not really sure what impact that has on the pick though. It isn't like nobody could see that his gait is a bit odd, much less the professional scouts who can break the mechanics down much better.
But he was still consistently ranked inside the top20, because the rest of his game transcended that. Poor skating can be a very difficult thing for players to change, but not every guy is a speed demon. If he's finishing his chances, punishing guys with his physical play, and making smart decisions each shift, then he doesn't need to be the guy who's blowing defenders away on the rush.
Nearly every pre-draft report that exists, or at least that I and others seem to have read. And most of the video ones.
And then you can also just watch him skate if you don't trust the aggregate information collected throughout the hockey world.
He's a hockey player. So sure, he knows how to skate. He's not just falling on his ass out there. But he has bad technique and he needs work on it.
It's not the biggest deal. But when you play in the NHL against some of the best skaters in hockey, small things make a difference. Just look at like, Dylan Strome when he was with the Yotes at least.
I am sure in general terms, compared to the general public, Othmann is an above average skater. But relative to NHL terms, most of the scouting reports have him anywhere from bad to average. Which means, he still needs a lot of work. And as someone mentioned above, one of the things he does wrong is run in his skates too often. His stride is probably the biggest aspect that gets criticized. His legs come up too high, his knees are often in the wrong position and sometimes his stride is too wide. Not going to be good for getting through small spaces fast in the NHL. And he's expending more energy than he needs to. Which again, for his playstyle, isn't going to be a good thing.
And if he wants to play his game in the NHL, be an agitator and an energy guy, but also an offensive threat and guy that can drive hard or transition, he's going to have to get much better. He's not a stay at home dman, or a goalie or a stand your ground , in front of net or wherever type of roadbloack. Some players can get away with being subpar, some cant. His entire game is based on movement and quick movement. And he's actually not bad going very short distances, say within a 10 foot space. But in lower ranks, you see guys hardly moving sometimes, or slowly making their way up ice, sometimes just casually gliding. That's not going to be the case most of the time in the NHL.
And I think his play style more than many others, really will require a lot of improvement.
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From my point of view it makes zero sense to -- in relation to guys like Othman and Henriksson -- talk about "skating" like its one thing that you have or don't have.
Skating is have many sides to it. Othman is really quick and excellent at chasing down guys on the forecheck and what not. Henriksson is super mobile and tremendously slippery on his skates. Both these players were easily top 5% in their draft class in these areas, i.e. in -- parts of -- their skating.
Then Henriksson isn't very fast going the length of the ice, which I think is a flaw that is overstated but that is another issue.
As to Othman, after the acceleration phase when a good skater shifts into a long effective stride which gives him a very high top speed, Othman instead keeps his stride short and choppy which undoubtedly hurts his top speed.
There are many players who just are "heavy" on their skates, at different degrees. They just don't have that jump and quick feets. Lias Andersson is a good example. I have no objections to their skating being called out in a general statement claiming that its not good. But for me at least, it matters a great deal if someone skates like Henriksson or Othman on one hand or like Lias Andersson on the other. Henriksson and Othman's skating can be a huge assets in some situations, and holding them back in others. And Othman also differs from Henriksson a great deal since his technique obviously is so flawed which raises the question how must and fast it can be improved.
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RangerBlues
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His skating is bad means he should have been drafted in the sixth round.
That really means his skating needs work and refinement cause he was drafted in the middle of the first.
The dumping on this pick has become exhausting.
That really means his skating needs work and refinement cause he was drafted in the middle of the first.
The dumping on this pick has become exhausting.
RangerBlues
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"If there’s a drawback to Othmann, it’s in terms of his skating. We won’t attempt to sugar coat it; Brennan has the worst skating mechanics out of any of the top end players featured in this class.
He’s not the most fluid looking prospect on the ice, and his physical limitations can be seen in every part of his skating. With Brennan, it starts with his ankles which lack proper flexion, specifically dorsiflexion. Due to his restrictive ankles, it significantly reduces his ability to transfer his power through his push-offs.
He also features a hunched over posture, rigid shoulder rotation within his upper half when he’s attempting to gain speed, short and sloppy crossovers, and an inconsistency within his inability to counterbalance his weight out of turns. Basically, it looks like he’s fighting through every inch of himself when attempting to push off and propel forward."- Hockey Prospect Black Book, pg. 302
Just so we're clear, he is not a good skater. The only reason he's even decent is because of how much power he can produce, but he's got a significant amount of work to do.
"We don’t think all the mechanics within his skating are correctable, his ankles have the mobility of iron rods, and there’s a level of fluidity which he simply lacks, but we also don’t think it’s going to stop him due to the amount of power he’s already generating at his age, and given how raw he is in his physical development" (pg 302-303
He’s not the most fluid looking prospect on the ice, and his physical limitations can be seen in every part of his skating. With Brennan, it starts with his ankles which lack proper flexion, specifically dorsiflexion. Due to his restrictive ankles, it significantly reduces his ability to transfer his power through his push-offs.
He also features a hunched over posture, rigid shoulder rotation within his upper half when he’s attempting to gain speed, short and sloppy crossovers, and an inconsistency within his inability to counterbalance his weight out of turns. Basically, it looks like he’s fighting through every inch of himself when attempting to push off and propel forward."- Hockey Prospect Black Book, pg. 302
Just so we're clear, he is not a good skater. The only reason he's even decent is because of how much power he can produce, but he's got a significant amount of work to do.
"We don’t think all the mechanics within his skating are correctable, his ankles have the mobility of iron rods, and there’s a level of fluidity which he simply lacks, but we also don’t think it’s going to stop him due to the amount of power he’s already generating at his age, and given how raw he is in his physical development" (pg 302-303
