Prospect Info: At 16th Overall the Rangers Select Brennan Othmann

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Again, 174 lbs was enough for Othmann do be effective in Switzerland and the WJC18. It may or may not be in the NHL but he's certainly gonna add more weight until then. Of course that additional weight shouldn't affect his skating but I'm sure he'll take care of that.

I agree with you re Miller. He's got to toughen up if he wants to be effective in the nhl.

DeBrincat toughened up during the offseason. Hit the gym hard, added a lot of muscles. I'm not sure the listed weight is still correct there. Before last season, I think he was soft but last season he was quite impressive, winning lots of battles, doing all the physical work you have to do as a winger if you wanna play successfully with Patrick Kane. Maybe Farabee is a similar case who's gonna be more effective in battles once he does add some weight. So far I'm not impressed. As I said, that's just with his lack of physicality. I do like the player. I just think he's got other qualities.

Paul Byron is actually a good example of a lightweight playing really tough but I think he's much tougher than Farabee. Gallagher as well but he's over 180 lbs. Zuccarello used to play very hard when entering the league but he's not anymore. Atkinson and Spurgeon are soft. Brilliant players but soft.

The other dude is being straight up verbally abusive to you which isn't really called for but at the same time, some of what you said does seem off. What exactly do you define as soft? What is it about Farabee's game that makes him fit that definition? You have contradicted yourself on at least one occasion and even after reading all you wrote there doesn't seem to be any sort of clear definition for what you use the term "soft" to represent.

 

[Hinterland]

Debrincat is 5'7 and 165 pounds....... Gallagher is 183 on the nose. And Zuccarello PLAYED very hard.... yea, that is the point. Atkinson and Spurgeon aren't soft. They aren't bulldozers out there, but again , I am not sure you understand what "soft" actually means.

Farabee all ready is TOUGH. It's a mentality. He's tenacious. He is high energy. All he needs to do is add weight.

But again, he's not "soft" as you keep trying to suggest. And then again, one of your main points was Farabee's size and weight. When he's exactly as tall as Othmann. And now you admit yourself weight has nothing to really do with it. There are a ton of players in the 170-185 range who are tough.

You are still just trying to prove Farabee is soft, without any real argument. It's quite hilarious.

You should read my posts. I said it's possible to be an effective hitter at 164 lbs but it's usually not enough and I can't think of somebody. Every body is different and you're right, Byron is a good example. DeBrincat, as I said, added lots of weight lately. His listed weight I don't think is still correct. Even if, that's just the 2nd guy. Again. There are exceptions to most rules but ideally, you want to be 180-190 lbs to play in an energy role.

 

[brakeyawself]

How do you define toughness exactly? Bc it sounds like you're interchanging it with things a tough player does more. But there's a difference between "He's not tough enough" and "I wish he would hit more."

And that's different from, "He needs to stop panicking with the puck and losing every board battle bc he's terrified of contact"

What your describing with him using his reach doesn't necassarily mean his toughness is the issue, it might just indicate bad decision making.

No, USING his body more. Using it more effectively. He's ok on the boards. He's not terrified of contact. But there aren't many players who are actually terrified of contact. Especially Dmen. They exist yea, but they are a minority in a wholly physical game.

But yes, Miller should also be checking more, hitting more and using his body rather than just trying to use his stick. Putting his body in between players and the puck with regularity. Using his size to deter aggression towards his teammates. All of these things.

I wouldn't quite say he shies away from contact. But he certainly doesn't welcome it and have a "bring it on mentality". And that is a problem the Rangers clearly seem to think they need to address. Both management and fans. And since Miller is getting his opportunity and has all the traits to use his body more effectively, it's up to him to do so. It's not just on him, but certainly it has something to do with him. I think he was very good his rookie season. But I am, personally, not making any bets yet that he turns into a stud Dman. I think his offense is good but behind other Dmen, and his physicality is average when it should be much greater. We only have 6 spots for D players a game really. If he's going to be one of them, on a regular basis, I think he needs to add these skills to his toolbox. Otherwise I would rather see a higher offensive talent out there who would theoretically play with equal physicality. Like Jones for instance.

 

[brakeyawself]

You should read my posts. I said it's possible to be an effective hitter at 164 lbs but it's usually not enough and I can't think of somebody. Every body is different and you're right, Byron is a good example. DeBrincat, as I said, added lots of weight lately. His listed weight I don't think is still correct. Even if, that's just the 2nd guy. Again. There are exceptions to most rules but ideally, you want to be 180-190 lbs to play in an energy role.

This is about Joel Farabee being soft.... thats it. A statement you made time and time again, which isn't true and isn't backed up by the reasons you gave. Which included, skating, size, weight etc...

Boy, you really do hate to lose an argument.

 

[Hinterland]

The other dude is being straight up verbally abusive to you which isn't really called for but at the same time, some of what you said does seem off. What exactly do you define as soft? What is it about Farabee's game that makes him fit that definition? You have contradicted yourself on at least one occasion and even after reading all you wrote there doesn't seem to be any sort of clear definition for what you use the term "soft" to represent.

Where did I contradict myself?
A soft player is one that loses most battles or just doesn't engage enough. Both applies to Farabee. The Flyers are a very tough team...how you can think that Farabee, of all people on the Flyers, isn't soft...it's beyond me.

Again, maybe he can copy DeBrincat and change his style once he does add some weight. Certainly made a big difference for DeBrincat who I classified as soft before last season. With Farabee, I don't think we're there yet.

 

[Hinterland]

This is about Joel Farabee being soft.... thats it. A statement you made time and time again, which isn't true and isn't backed up by the reasons you gave. Which included, skating, size, weight etc...

Boy, you really do hate to lose an argument.

How is this about winning or losing?
In my view, Farabee is soft because he doesn't hit enough and he doesn't win enough battles. I also think he's not aggressive enough to qualify as tough. If you have a different opinion or if you think that Othmann's skating sucks then I find that curious but I don't see how you'd be winning or losing anything except maybe some credibility in my eyes

 

[brakeyawself]

Where did I contradict myself?
A soft player is one that loses most battles or just doesn't engage enough. Both applies to Farabee. The Flyers are a very tough team...how you can think that Farabee, of all people on the Flyers, isn't soft...it's beyond me.

Again, maybe he can copy DeBrincat and change his style once he does add some weight. Certainly made a big difference for DeBrincat who I classified as soft before last season. With Farabee, I don't think we're there yet.

Whaaaat? OMG man. I literally pointed it, in numerous posts where you contradicted yourself. Its not my problem if you didn't read them .I am not going to keep repeating the answer to you. Go back and read my posts.... it's all in there.

And a "soft" player is one that shys away from the dirty areas, shys away from contact, doesn't make contact often. That simply is not Farabee. A player who earns a lot of his money playing in the dirty areas of the ice, where he has to deal with physical players.

And he doesn't lose most battles. Where are you getting that idea? He's been very very good in the dirty areas, around the net etc... Are you like, just thinking of his rookie year? That's what it seems like. You stopped watching him after his rookie season.

And go ask Flyers fans if they think he is "soft". They will tell you, absolutely not.

I can think "that Farabee, of all people on the Flyers, isn't soft" because he ISN'T SOFT.

And yes, it's quite clear that it is beyond you. Which is also what I have been stating the last few posts. It's undoubtedly beyond you. And you haven't provided a lick of evidence to prove it or even begin backing it up.

 

[brakeyawself]

How is this about winning or losing?
In my view, Farabee is soft because he doesn't hit enough and he doesn't win enough battles. I also think he's not aggressive enough to qualify as tough. If you have a different opinion or if you think that Othmann's skating sucks then I find that curious but I don't see how you'd be winning or losing anything except maybe some credibility in my eyes

Because. YOU called him "soft" and can't prove it. Therefore you lose the argument.

This isn't just a matter of opinion. I think that's where you are going wrong. This isn't just subjective. Farabee is objectively NOT "soft". And you've tried every fallacious argument possible and none of them stick.

Could Farabee hit more? Sure, but he doesn't need to because hes a superior skater, quite fast and has great stick work. But his skill allows him to not have to hit all the time.

Otherwise, the definition of "soft" is completely meaningless and we might as well be arguing about his favorite color.

So basically, your definition of "soft" is players who you think should hit more and players who seem light weight or some such thing.......lol.

 

[brakeyawself]

How is this about winning or losing?
In my view, Farabee is soft because he doesn't hit enough and he doesn't win enough battles. I also think he's not aggressive enough to qualify as tough. If you have a different opinion or if you think that Othmann's skating sucks then I find that curious but I don't see how you'd be winning or losing anything except maybe some credibility in my eyes

While you were blabbering. I asked Flyers fans if they thought Joel Farabee was soft...

you can look for yourself. 2021 Roster Thread XXIV: Ghostbusters

The clearest answer is, "not even close".

But again, like the Othmann argument about his skating. Even though every pundit and scout says Othmann's weakest point is his skating that needs a lot of work, you know better. About Farabee being "soft", compared to Flyers fans, you know better...

Sensing a bit of a trend here.

 

[Hinterland]

Because. YOU called him "soft" and can't prove it. Therefore you lose the argument.

This isn't just a matter of opinion. I think that's where you are going wrong. This isn't just subjective. Farabee is objectively NOT "soft". And you've tried every fallacious argument possible and none of them stick.

Could Farabee hit more? Sure, but he doesn't need to because hes a superior skater, quite fast and has great stick work. But his skill allows him to not have to hit all the time.

Otherwise, the definition of "soft" is completely meaningless and we might as well be arguing about his favorite color.

So basically, your definition of "soft" is players who you think should hit more and players who seem light weight or some such thing.......lol.

I'm still not sure what exactly you wanna win or lose here?
Did you lose your mind? Is that it?
Toughness isn't a stat...so how should I prove it? His hit totals are low if that helps...but you didn't wanna hear about it
At least you agree with me that Farabee doesn't necessarily need to hit.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

No, USING his body more. Using it more effectively. He's ok on the boards. He's not terrified of contact. But there aren't many players who are actually terrified of contact. Especially Dmen. They exist yea, but they are a minority in a wholly physical game.

But yes, Miller should also be checking more, hitting more and using his body rather than just trying to use his stick. Putting his body in between players and the puck with regularity. Using his size to deter aggression towards his teammates. All of these things.

I wouldn't quite say he shies away from contact. But he certainly doesn't welcome it and have a "bring it on mentality". And that is a problem the Rangers clearly seem to think they need to address. Both management and fans. And since Miller is getting his opportunity and has all the traits to use his body more effectively, it's up to him to do so. It's not just on him, but certainly it has something to do with him. I think he was very good his rookie season. But I am, personally, not making any bets yet that he turns into a stud Dman. I think his offense is good but behind other Dmen, and his physicality is average when it should be much greater. We only have 6 spots for D players a game really. If he's going to be one of them, on a regular basis, I think he needs to add these skills to his toolbox. Otherwise I would rather see a higher offensive talent out there who would theoretically play with equal physicality. Like Jones for instance.

It could be a toughness problem but I dont see him playing scared so I just wouldn't say it's a toughness issue.

I'd agree he has to make use if his strength and take the body more. I think he has the toughness to do it and do it effectively if coached up more. I'd honestly say it's his decision making and positioning that get in the way of doing so more than it's a lack of toughness. To me, he specializes at using his stick and using his skating to make up for it when he screws up. When he gets in close he has a higher chance of goofing up so he relies more on gap, stick work and skating

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Where did I contradict myself?

He pointed out your contradiction twice. Kind of stupid to use a laugh emoji like I'm saying something funny...

He even is sending you a l;ink to the fans who watch him all the time

 

[Hinterland]

While you were blabbering. I asked Flyers fans if they thought Joel Farabee was soft...

you can look for yourself. 2021 Roster Thread XXIV: Ghostbusters

The clearest answer is, "not even close".

But again, like the Othmann argument about his skating. Even though every pundit and scout says Othmann's weakest point is his skating that needs a lot of work, you know better. About Farabee being "soft", compared to Flyers fans, you know better...

Sensing a bit of a trend here.

Farabee has always gravitated to the dirty area in front of the net, he got pushed around as a rookie, played stronger last year, but is still only 21 and probably will continue to fill out the next couple years - when he does, he'll be able to anchor and get his shot off in traffic near the net. He's not a physical player but doesn't shy away from contact and will probably play more physical down the road as he adds strength.

I prefer this answer. Much closer to what I'm seeing than what you're trying to tell me here
Maybe one day he'll pull a DeBrincat and become a physical player...right now he's soft in my books.

 

[brakeyawself]

It could be a toughness problem but I dont see him playing scared so I just wouldn't say it's a toughness issue.

I'd agree he has to make use if his strength and take the body more. I think he has the toughness to do it and do it effectively if coached up more. I'd honestly say it's his decision making and positioning that get in the way of doing so more than it's a lack of toughness. To me, he specializes at using his stick and using his skating to make up for it when he screws up. When he gets in close he has a higher chance of goofing up so he relies more on gap, stick work and skating

That's plausible. I just worry that many have all ready decided Miller is a certain part of the future and guys like Jones or Robertson are expendable. And I really don't want to jump to that conclusion. I think people are going to be surprised by how good Jones is offensively and defensively. And I think Robertson does bring a more physical game to the table than Miller and Robertson, like Miller has size.

So as far as our LD's go. If Miller is not as good as Jones offensively and not as good as Robertson in terms of defense, physicality and using his body, that could leave him odd man out. I don't know for sure that Jones is better, but I do think he will be. And I don't know for certain Robertson will always be better in those other areas, but right now he looks as though he's going to be.

This of course is all in relation to trading one or two of our young Dmen away for a center or whatever. I am not sold that Jones or Robertson should be the one to go, over perhaps Miller. Or for that matter, until we actually see how he plays, Lundqvist.

 

[brakeyawself]

I prefer this answer. Much closer to what I'm seeing than what you're trying to tell me here
Maybe one day he'll pull a DeBrincat and become a physical player...right now he's soft in my books.

Ok.... you "prefer" that answer. But that answer isn't at all stating he is "soft" now is it? Which was what started this whole mess in the first place.

You must have some very lonely books.

 

[Hinterland]

Ok.... you "prefer" that answer. But that answer isn't at all stating he is "soft" now is it? Which was what started this whole mess in the first place.

You must have some very lonely books.

In my view, a player who's "not physical", "getting pushed around", not hitting enough or, how I described it, just isn't winning enough physcial battles is soft. If you have a different definition that's fine with me.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Is this pissing contest over yet, so we can talk about Othmann again?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Is this pissing contest over yet, so we can talk about Othmann again?

I love how hinterland took up all this space with said pissing contest and then hit "like" on your comment as if he wasn't one of the main culprits lol.

Little sneaky, face saving things like that are what make this place so fun sometimes

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Is this pissing contest over yet, so we can talk about Othmann again?

Seriously.

Give it a rest, guys. You've made your points (many, many times) and you aren't convincing each other.

 

[broadwayblue]

So, how many years until he is likely to make the team?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So, how many years until he is likely to make the team?

2-3 years is my guess. Which perfectly lines up with Kreider's NMC expiring

 

[broadwayblue]

2-3 years is my guess. Which perfectly lines up with Kreider's NMC expiring

Sounds about right.

 

[2014nyr]

No, USING his body more. Using it more effectively. He's ok on the boards. He's not terrified of contact. But there aren't many players who are actually terrified of contact. Especially Dmen. They exist yea, but they are a minority in a wholly physical game.

But yes, Miller should also be checking more, hitting more and using his body rather than just trying to use his stick. Putting his body in between players and the puck with regularity. Using his size to deter aggression towards his teammates. All of these things.

I wouldn't quite say he shies away from contact. But he certainly doesn't welcome it and have a "bring it on mentality". And that is a problem the Rangers clearly seem to think they need to address. Both management and fans. And since Miller is getting his opportunity and has all the traits to use his body more effectively, it's up to him to do so. It's not just on him, but certainly it has something to do with him. I think he was very good his rookie season. But I am, personally, not making any bets yet that he turns into a stud Dman. I think his offense is good but behind other Dmen, and his physicality is average when it should be much greater. We only have 6 spots for D players a game really. If he's going to be one of them, on a regular basis, I think he needs to add these skills to his toolbox. Otherwise I would rather see a higher offensive talent out there who would theoretically play with equal physicality. Like Jones for instance.

yea k'andre to me is one of our bigger question marks. obviously he has some physical tools that can blow you away, but when you look at him on the whole he's kinda ...idno shapeless? like his skating is unreal when he gets moving, can blow past everyone on the ice effortlessly and then get back if the play goes the other way. but on the other side, he hasn't really shown high end offensive instincts so he doesn't create much off those rushes. hes got a nice shot - clapper is a bomb, but his puck skills are just ok, hasn't shown much in the way of playmaking, and he really struggled at times with the basics like handling a pass at the blue line. like theres times where i could envision him becoming brent burns like where he's just bigger stronger faster with enough skill that he can just bulldoze his way into creating chances. but we didn't see a ton of that last year - and yes he was a rookie, so those kind of plays may come with time as he becomes more comfortable with when to push the envelope and he should improve to some degree in puckhandling. but to date its hard for me to have a high degree of confidence in his offensive game evolving to the point he's a true threat / point producer.

and defensively he's definitely got some holes. on the plus side he's generally very good at knocking pucks off stucks both in open ice and on the boards. and specifically on the boards he was impressive in not just knocking pucks loose but to an area he could get to them. he's not overly physical, he'll rub guys out on the wall and he will take some shots behind the net. but he's far from imposing or what i'd term aggressive. i was actually disappointed in the aftermath of the wilson incident we didn't see any edge from him. he's the biggest guy on the bench, fighting might not be his thing but would have been nice to see him at least make a point of finishing some people off with an edge and bullying some people post whistle around the net. he also had some issues with guys one on one...he'll stop moving his feet and theres just too many places to put pucks through him, and if he gets turned he's toast. again something he can certainly improve on as he progresses and he has only been playing d for a few years so not trashing him...but that improvement does need to start coming. he's really at his best when hes flying all over the ice and being instinctive, he made some unbelievably athletic plays / intelligent reads racing back into the play this year. he was also just disastrous at times with his decision making stepping up in the neutral zone...plays he had absolutely no chance of making that hung trouba out to dry far too often. that needs to get cleaned up.

but long story short he's got a lot of grey area. there's certainly some abilities that could allow him to become a monster. but he also strikes me as a guy that isn't strong enough on either side of the ice to be a core member. either his offensive game needs to take some serious strides in the next 2 years or his defensive game needs to round out significantly and he needs to add an edge to his play. otherwise he becomes like a tom poti...not enough skill to produce offense and not bringing enough defensively to justify a roster spot. feels weird to say with how young and gifted he is, but he needs to figure out what his game is going to be and what he needs to do / work on to play it with a high level of consistency

 

[Hinterland]

2-3 years is my guess. Which perfectly lines up with Kreider's NMC expiring

At least. Not the type of player you should be rushing in my view. 200 ft game is there already so he could play soon enough but I think it would be smart to be patient and give the kid enough time to figure and round out his offense.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

At least. Not the type of player you should be rushing in my view. 200 ft game is there already so he could play soon enough but I think it would be smart to be patient and give the kid enough time to figure and round out his offense.

I wonder what the odds are of him going back to Switzerland either his D+1 or his D+2. I know an NL team showed interest in him this past season although another year with EHC Olten would be great too.

I guess it all depends on the OHL restarting or cancelling another season.