Prospect Info: At 16th Overall the Rangers Select Brennan Othmann

[Hinterland]

Ok, ill name one JOel Farabee.

And boy are you out to lunch. You clearly hate losing an argument and will make things up and push complete nonsense in an attempt to win an argument you all ready lost.

No they only don’t I think you’ve watched Farabee play, but I don’t think you’ve way watched Othmann play either.

And Othmann biggest weakness are skating and in the defensive zone because he lacks adequate skill skating and speed. Speed can improve when skating does.

You’ve contradicted yourself a number of times. And I’d bet money you don’t watch more than 90% of those on this board.

Good luck with that nonsense. You may have a career in politics though. Making up arguments as you go along and convincing yourself it’s all true. When reality is the opposite of your argument.

I have no clue what you're talking about. Where did I contradict myself?
Also, Othmann played just essentially right next to my place here in Switzerland. So I've seen all games. How many did you see? Your description of Othmann makes me think you probably haven't watched him at all. I think most of those tv productions last season weren't even accessible for the wider public. Of course it's also possible that you don't know hockey and are just posting here. Your view of Farabee is certainly a bit strange. I like the player as well but to call him tough is quite the reach, man

 

[JohnC]

I have nothing to add RE Othmann since I knew practically nothing about this year’s draft class compared to years prior.

I will say that the doubled down bold claim of Joel Farabee being soft is hilarious. Wasn’t his MO in the USHL or college and isn’t his MO in the NHL.

 

[Harbour Dog]

As I stated already, Othmann has a very high floor. Worst case you get a bottom six energy guy with a lethal shot who's gonna run over everything that moves.

Worst case, he doesn't develop the proper tools to be an NHL regular.

That is almost always the worst case when you get out of the top5 or so guys; especially in a draft where picking 15OA was like picking in the late 1st of most drafts.

Nothing against Othmann, he looks like a fine pick; I just know that when we start talking "safe picks", we start setting people up for freak outs when he inevitably has some stumbles.

He might never be an NHLer. That's the floor. If I had the choice of taking what you say his floor is, or gambling on the rest of his development; I would take your description of his floor.

 

[Harbour Dog]

And Farabee was way ahead of Othmann in their draft years. If we had decided to take Farabee at 9OA that year, it would have been mostly accepted as okay on here.

Taking Othmann at 9OA in this much weaker draft, would have been met with loads of justified criticism.

 

[JimmyG89]

Hopefully this kid can continue to improve, but I just don't like taking a winger at this point in the build. We have enough coming and here.

Our 3rd rounders are centers, but there were a few up there that could have been had at 16 that would have been nice to add, especially since center is probably the oldest position group we have on average.

If you look 4-5 years out from now, which is probably where you project a mid 1st rounder to begin making a bigger impact, the center position will need something. It keeps making me think that they will swing some kind of deal for a center between 24-26 years old this summer.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It seems like the pluses and minuses on this kid are similar to Lias’ when he was coming out

I hope he’ll get it figured out

At least they didn’t take this one in the top 7 lol

 

[Hinterland]

Worst case, he doesn't develop the proper tools to be an NHL regular.

That is almost always the worst case when you get out of the top5 or so guys; especially in a draft where picking 15OA was like picking in the late 1st of most drafts.

Nothing against Othmann, he looks like a fine pick; I just know that when we start talking "safe picks", we start setting people up for freak outs when he inevitably has some stumbles.

He might never be an NHLer. That's the floor. If I had the choice of taking what you say his floor is, or gambling on the rest of his development; I would take your description of his floor.

Yeah but with Othmann I think that's highly unlikely. I think he has pretty good tools already. It's just that he wants to do much more and do all the fancy stuff but at times it's just too much. That may work in the OHL and he might be able to master all of that one day but if not, he just has to simplify and play the right way. He really wants to be able to do all of that stuff and then at times gets mad and loses his way over it. That will go away as he matures and continues to work on his skillset.

The best example was his between the legs goal vs Sweden in the semifinal of the WJC. It made perfect sense as he scored it on the PP with not a lot of space. But he then tried the exact same move on a breakaway in the final vs Russia when they were just one goal ahead. An NHL player would never do this. It's a low percentage play and with space, there are just better options. He also took shots from bad angles early in the tournament, just like he did during his cold streak in Switzerland.

The only worry would be his size...he'll need to continue to hit the gym hard if he wants to play that style of play in the NHL. The Swiss League is more of a skating league...lots of smaller, younger guys, little big vets. NHL players are much heavier. I have no doubt Othmann will put the necessary work in though. He already did it ahead of his stint in Switzerland and it was visible and paid off.

 

[Hinterland]

It seems like the pluses and minuses on this kid are similar to Lias’ when he was coming out

I hope he’ll get it figured out

At least they didn’t take this one in the top 7 lol

Othmann would never quit the way Andersson did. That's never gonna happen. Andersson has the talent but I'm not sure he's dedicated enough.

 

[RangerBlues]

Hopefully this kid can continue to improve, but I just don't like taking a winger at this point in the build. We have enough coming and here.

Our 3rd rounders are centers, but there were a few up there that could have been had at 16 that would have been nice to add, especially since center is probably the oldest position group we have on average.

If you look 4-5 years out from now, which is probably where you project a mid 1st rounder to begin making a bigger impact, the center position will need something. It keeps making me think that they will swing some kind of deal for a center between 24-26 years old this summer.

The team has zero depth at all forward positions.
Getting draft lottery luck allowed them to overdraft on D

 

[Hinterland]

Hopefully this kid can continue to improve, but I just don't like taking a winger at this point in the build. We have enough coming and here.

Our 3rd rounders are centers, but there were a few up there that could have been had at 16 that would have been nice to add, especially since center is probably the oldest position group we have on average.

If you look 4-5 years out from now, which is probably where you project a mid 1st rounder to begin making a bigger impact, the center position will need something. It keeps making me think that they will swing some kind of deal for a center between 24-26 years old this summer.

The Centers in this draft just weren't particularly interesting. Lucius is capable but can't skate. The rest either has limited upside or would have been quite a gamble or reach at that point. You can see how desperate teams were for Centers looking at where Beniers, McTavish, Johnson etc. went. All far too early. Better not engage there and take BPA.

 

[RangerBlues]

Drury went safe on this pick.

 

[Hinterland]

Drury went safe on this pick.

Kind of, yeah. But Othmann still has decent upside if he can put everything together at the highest level and find consistency.

 

[brakeyawself]

I have no clue what you're talking about. Where did I contradict myself?
Also, Othmann played just essentially right next to my place here in Switzerland. So I've seen all games. How many did you see? Your description of Othmann makes me think you probably haven't watched him at all. I think most of those tv productions last season weren't even accessible for the wider public. Of course it's also possible that you don't know hockey and are just posting here. Your view of Farabee is certainly a bit strange. I like the player as well but to call him tough is quite the reach, man

I explained it to you like 5 times. But you haven't read anything have you ? You just keep repeating that silly argument .

You keep saying things like Othmann's skating is very good when it's the biggest criticism of his game.

Then you tried stating how "skating" is what makes players good at not being "soft", and good at hitting, in an attempt to suggest that skating is what makes Othmann so good at hitting, and what makes Farabee so poor at it. When Farabee is 10 times the skater Othmann is and much faster. Frankly, Othmann will NEVER be as good a skater or fast a skater as Farabee.

Then you try saying Farabee is small. When he is the exact same height as Othmann and only 9 pounds lighter.

Anyone who says "Farabee is "soft" doesn't know the meaning of the word "soft" or hasn't seen him play. Yes, I am sure if you think Joel Farabee is "soft" then you would find what I am saying, and reality, "a bit strange". But that has nothing to do with Farabee actually being "soft" or you trying to convince yourself and others that he is "soft".

And I have seen Othmann about 10 times or so. I've seen Farabee about 80 times or so.

You lost this argument about 8 posts ago, yet you continue to pull complete BS out of your hat in your attempt to salvage the argument that has absolutely no connection to reality.

And every time I prove you wrong, you write some rhetoric filled post in an attempt to make yourself appear knowledgeable. I don't care if you share a bathroom with Othmann. You clearly have no clue what Joel Farabee plays like or looks like And your analysis of Othmann is contradictory to how he looks while he plays and what pretty much every pundit and scout has said about him.


"The area of Othmann’s game that does seem to be most criticized is his skating. He’s never going to be an elite NHL mover," (Brennan Othmann: 2021 NHL Draft Prospect Profile; Flint’s and Olten’s Tenacious Winger

Literally, just about every write up on the kid states, point blank that skating is his worst attribute and he needs some work in that area.......

This entire thing is you trying to prove Farabee is a "soft" player. Which you can't because he's not. This was a fun little tour down delusion way. But if you still don't get it at this point, you never will.

And it's ok to lose an argument. Sometimes other people are correct.

 

[brakeyawself]

As I stated already, Othmann has a very high floor. Worst case you get a bottom six energy guy with a lethal shot who's gonna run over everything that moves.

Rofl. At 174 pounds? He sure will try to run over everything that moves. But he's going to have a very difficult time doing that in the AHL/NHL until is skating improves and he learned how to use his body better.

 

[Hinterland]

Rofl. At 174 pounds? He sure will try to run over everything that moves. But he's going to have a very difficult time doing that in the AHL/NHL until is skating improves and he learned how to use his body better.

He's not gonna arrive in the NHL at 174. 174 would be boarderline to play that aggressive, high energy style in the NHL. It's possible but difficult. I think you better have 180-190. Also again, his skating is fine. I've watched 40+ games of his last season compared to your 5.

 

[Hinterland]

I explained it to you like 5 times. But you haven't read anything have you ? You just keep repeating that silly argument .

You keep saying things like Othmann's skating is very good when it's the biggest criticism of his game.

Then you tried stating how "skating" is what makes players good at not being "soft", and good at hitting, in an attempt to suggest that skating is what makes Othmann so good at hitting, and what makes Farabee so poor at it. When Farabee is 10 times the skater Othmann is and much faster. Frankly, Othmann will NEVER be as good a skater or fast a skater as Farabee.

Then you try saying Farabee is small. When he is the exact same height as Othmann and only 9 pounds lighter.

Anyone who says "Farabee is "soft" doesn't know the meaning of the word "soft" or hasn't seen him play. Yes, I am sure if you think Joel Farabee is "soft" then you would find what I am saying, and reality, "a bit strange". But that has nothing to do with Farabee actually being "soft" or you trying to convince yourself and others that he is "soft".

And I have seen Othmann about 10 times or so. I've seen Farabee about 80 times or so.

You lost this argument about 8 posts ago, yet you continue to pull complete BS out of your hat in your attempt to salvage the argument that has absolutely no connection to reality.

And every time I prove you wrong, you write some rhetoric filled post in an attempt to make yourself appear knowledgeable. I don't care if you share a bathroom with Othmann. You clearly have no clue what Joel Farabee plays like or looks like And your analysis of Othmann is contradictory to how he looks while he plays and what pretty much every pundit and scout has said about him.


"The area of Othmann’s game that does seem to be most criticized is his skating. He’s never going to be an elite NHL mover," (Brennan Othmann: 2021 NHL Draft Prospect Profile; Flint’s and Olten’s Tenacious Winger

Literally, just about every write up on the kid states, point blank that skating is his worst attribute and he needs some work in that area.......

This entire thing is you trying to prove Farabee is a "soft" player. Which you can't because he's not. This was a fun little tour down delusion way. But if you still don't get it at this point, you never will.

And it's ok to lose an argument. Sometimes other people are correct.

So I haven't contradicted myself. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean that I contradict myself. Again, you're bonkers to call Farabee tough. He's just not. And I doubt he would be if he was heavier. Just not his style. He doesn't have to be tough.

You just said you've seen Othmann 5 times. All of a sudden you're claiming it to be 10 games. Have you just watched 5 games in a few minutes? I think you should stop here, you're embarrassing yourself. You obviously have 0 (zero) clue who and what you're talking about. Do you watch hockey at all?
Or did you just revert from 10 back to 5? Anyway, if anyone is contradicting himself here, it's certainly not me

Also, how much European hockey have you watched? Swiss hockey? On the wider ice, in a fast league, you can't possibly play an energy role if you can't skate. On the wider ice, you're doomed if you can't skate. How many Swiss players you know that cannot skate? We have lots of issues but skating isn't one of them. Othmann's skating stood out instantly over in Switzerland. It's certainly much much better than McTavish's, who went 3rd overall and played on the same team. Could his skating be better? Sure. You'd probably expect a smaller top prospect to be just a bit faster. But to say that his skating is a problem is absolutely crazy. Whoever says that just doesn't have a clue or has never watched him. This guy has been doing serious skating training for years and he'll continue to do it. Skating is never gonna be a problem for him.

 

[RangerBlues]

Rofl. At 174 pounds? He sure will try to run over everything that moves. But he's going to have a very difficult time doing that in the AHL/NHL until is skating improves and he learned how to use his body better.

Hes an 18 year old prospect.
There is no instant gratification so he will forever remain garbage?

 

[brakeyawself]

He's not gonna arrive in the NHL at 174. 174 would be boarderline to play that aggressive, high energy style in the NHL. I think you better have 180-190. Also again, his skating is fine. I've watched 40+ games of his last season compared to your 5.

Yawn. This is getting boring man. So every time I make a point that you have to concede to, there's an "if" or "but"? EVERYONE and their mom criticizes his skating, yet you know better right? When every scout and pundit states he needs to work on his skating and his skating is his weakest point, you know better though?

And weight matters to an extent but has nothing to do with being "soft" or lacking "toughness". You can be a string bean and still be "tough" and not "soft". And Farabee is a high energy guy. He's a tough player and not timid in the least.

Meanwhile, you have K'Andre Miller who is 6'3 and 225 pounds and melts like butter on the ice. Quite a soft player. Softness, or toughness has very little to do with height or weight, but everything to do with a players mindset. And you also tried to use hits as a gauge for "softness" when it's clearly not. Hitting is its own thing. Yea, if you get a lot of hits, you probably aren't soft. But that doesn't mean every hard, gritty player needs to rack up hits. Suggesting otherwise is absolutely a fantasy hockey perspective and not a real NHL perspective.

And there are MANY 6ft + over 200 pound players who are actually "soft" which also proves your criteria immaterial.

Is Zuccs soft? Spurgeon? Debrincat? Paul Byron? Gallagher? Atkinson? All these guys are smaller than Farabee, by a few inches. Farabee at his peak weight, should end up somewhere around 180.

And again, Othmann only weighs 174, but you are all ready claiming he's not "soft"? Right? It doesn't matter how much weight he may or may not put on, it has nothing to do with whether or not he's "soft".

Theo Fleury, one of tiniest players of his era was anything but "soft".

And Farabee still has plenty of room and time to add weight and muscle. He will continue to add muscle over the next few years.

Again, if you think Farabee is "soft" you haven't seen him play or you are just saying whatever you can to make it seem like you didn't lose the argument all ready.

 

[brakeyawself]

So I haven't contradicted myself. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean that I contradict myself. Again, you're bonkers to call Farabee tough. He's just not. And I doubt he would be if he was heavier. Just not his style. He doesn't have to be tough.

You just said you've seen Othmann 5 times. All of a sudden you're claiming it to be 10 games. Have you just watched 5 games in a few minutes? I think you should stop here, you're embarrassing yourself. You obviously have 0 (zero) clue who and what you're talking about. Do you watch hockey at all?
Or did you just revert from 10 back to 5? Anyway, if anyone is contradicting himself here, it's certainly not me

Also, how much European hockey have you watched? Swiss hockey? On the wider ice, in a fast league, you can't possibly play an energy role if you can't skate. On the wider ice, you're doomed if you can't skate. How many Swiss players you know that cannot skate? We have lots of issues but skating isn't one of them. Othmann's skating stood out instantly over in Switzerland. It's certainly much much better than McTavish's, who went 3rd overall and played on the same team. Could his skating be better? Sure. You'd probably expect a smaller top prospect to be just a bit faster. But to say that his skating is a problem is absolutely crazy. Whoever says that just doesn't have a clue or has never watched him. This guy has been doing serious skating training for years and he'll continue to do it. Skating is never gonna be a problem for him.

No, you literally HAVE contradicted yourself. I pointed out 3 occasions of it. Again, you tried to argue, that Othmann was a good skater and that SKATING is key to "plowing people over" . Yet when you find out Farabee is actually a far superior skater to Othmann, all of a sudden it no longer matters, That's called a contradiction.

Huh? Now you are just repeating the things I said to you? hahahaha

Just give it up. You are embarrassing yourself.... again.

Take care. Keep losing arguments. It's highly amusing.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I completely disagree. I don't think Miller's size and reach, without physicality, are actually that much of an important part of Rangers defense. The guy needs to add toughness and strength too, which he seems to lack at times.

Why would he need to add toughness? I think he's perfectly fine in that dept. It's not like he excels at throwing hits and fighting but he doesnt need to. He isn't panicking bc he's afraid

 

[Hinterland]

Yawn. This is getting boring man. So every time I make a point that you have to concede to, there's an "if" or "but"? EVERYONE and their mom criticizes his skating, yet you know better right? When every scout and pundit states he needs to work on his skating and his skating is his weakest point, you know better though?

And weight matters to an extent but has nothing to do with being "soft" or lacking "toughness". You can be a string bean and still be "tough" and not "soft". And Farabee is a high energy guy. He's a tough player and not timid in the least.

Meanwhile, you have DeAndre Miller who is 6'3 and 225 pounds and melts like butter on the ice. Quite a soft player. Softness, or toughness has very little to do with height or weight, but everything to do with a players mindset. And you also tried to use hits as a gauge for "softness" when it's clearly not. Hitting is its own thing. Yea, if you get a lot of hits, you probably aren't soft. But that doesn't mean every hard, gritty player needs to rack up hits. Suggesting otherwise is absolutely a fantasy hockey perspective and not a real NHL perspective.

Is Zuccs soft? Spurgeon? Debrincat? Paul Byron? Gallagher? Atkinson? All these guys are smaller than Farabee, by a few inches. Farabee at his peak weight, should end up somewhere around 180.

And again, Othmann only weighs 174, but you are all ready claiming he's not "soft"? Right? It doesn't matter how much weight he may or may not put on, it has nothing to do with whether or not he's "soft".

Theo Fleury, one of tiniest players of his era was anything but "soft".

And Farabee still has plenty of room and time to add weight and muscle. He will continue to add muscle over the next few years.

Again, if you think Farabee is "soft" you haven't seen him play or you are just saying whatever you can to make it seem like you didn't lose the argument all ready.

Again, 174 lbs was enough for Othmann do be effective in Switzerland and the WJC18. It may or may not be in the NHL but he's certainly gonna add more weight until then. Of course that additional weight shouldn't affect his skating but I'm sure he'll take care of that.

I agree with you re Miller. He's got to toughen up if he wants to be effective in the nhl.

DeBrincat toughened up during the offseason. Hit the gym hard, added a lot of muscles. I'm not sure the listed weight is still correct there. Before last season, I think he was soft but last season he was quite impressive, winning lots of battles, doing all the physical work you have to do as a winger if you wanna play successfully with Patrick Kane. Maybe Farabee is a similar case who's gonna be more effective in battles once he does add some weight. So far I'm not impressed. As I said, that's just with his lack of physicality. I do like the player. I just think he's got other qualities.

Paul Byron is actually a good example of a lightweight playing really tough but I think he's much tougher than Farabee. Gallagher as well but he's over 180 lbs. Zuccarello used to play very hard when entering the league but he's not anymore. Atkinson and Spurgeon are soft. Brilliant players but soft.

 

[brakeyawself]

Why would he need to add toughness? I think he's perfectly fine in that dept. It's not like he excels at throwing hits and fighting but he doesnt need to. He isn't panicking bc he's afraid

Really? I think he could do with a whole lot more toughness. Using his size and weight more to his advantage. He's been outright lacking in physicality and it makes a big difference.

Why would he need to add toughness? Because he's 6'3 like 225 pounds or whatever and the team is going out of their way to add "toughness" and "grit". If your 22 year old, 6'3, 225 pound Dman, can't play a gritty and tough game, then of course you will be missing some of those attributes in your lineup.

I think Miller needs to do a heck of a lot more in that department. And he SHOULD be excelling at throwing hits and perhaps fighting here and there. Otherwise his size and strength is of little consequence aside from his "reach". And too many times last season I saw him try to use his reach rather than his body and missed opportunities to protect or gain control of the puck.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Really? I think he could do with a whole lot more toughness. Using his size and weight more to his advantage. He's been outright lacking in physicality and it makes a big difference.

Why would he need to add toughness? Because he's 6'3 like 225 pounds or whatever and the team is going out of their way to add "toughness" and "grit". If your 22 year old, 6'3, 225 pound Dman, can't play a gritty and tough game, then of course you will be missing some of those attributes in your lineup.

I think Miller needs to do a heck of a lot more in that department. And he SHOULD be excelling at throwing hits and perhaps fighting here and there. Otherwise his size and strength is of little consequence aside from his "reach". And too many times last season I saw him try to use his reach rather than his body and missed opportunities to protect or gain control of the puck.

How do you define toughness exactly? Bc it sounds like you're interchanging it with things a tough player does more. But there's a difference between "He's not tough enough" and "I wish he would hit more."

And that's different from, "He needs to stop panicking with the puck and losing every board battle bc he's terrified of contact"

What you're describing with him using his reach doesn't necassarily mean his toughness is the issue, it might just indicate bad decision making. So that's why I'm asking why you think he needs toughness specifically.

 

[brakeyawself]

Again, 174 lbs was enough for Othmann do be effective in Switzerland and the WJC18. It may or may not be in the NHL but he's certainly gonna add more weight until then. Of course that additional weight shouldn't affect his skating but I'm sure he'll take care of that.

I agree with you re Miller. He's got to toughen up if he wants to be effective in the nhl.

DeBrincat toughened up during the offseason. Hit the gym hard, added a lot of muscles. I'm not sure the listed weight is still correct there. Before last season, I think he was soft but last season he was quite impressive, winning lots of battles, doing all the physical work you have to do as a winger if you wanna play successfully with Patrick Kane. Maybe Farabee is a similar case who's gonna be more effective in battles once he does add some weight. So far I'm not impressed. As I said, that's just with his lack of physicality. I do like the player. I just think he's got other qualities.

Paul Byron is actually a good example of a lightweight playing really tough but I think he's much tougher than Farabee. Gallagher as well but he's over 180 lbs. Zuccarello used to play very hard when entering the league but he's not anymore. Atkinson and Spurgeon are soft. Brilliant players but soft.

Debrincat is 5'7 and 165 pounds....... Gallagher is 183 on the nose. And Zuccarello PLAYED very hard.... yea, that is the point. Atkinson and Spurgeon aren't soft. They aren't bulldozers out there, but again , I am not sure you understand what "soft" actually means.

Farabee all ready is TOUGH. It's a mentality. He's tenacious. He is high energy. All he needs to do is add weight.

But again, he's not "soft" as you keep trying to suggest. And then again, one of your main points was Farabee's size and weight. When he's exactly as tall as Othmann. And now you admit yourself weight has nothing to really do with it. There are a ton of players in the 170-185 range who are tough.

You are still just trying to prove Farabee is soft, without any real argument. It's quite hilarious.

 

[Hinterland]

No, you literally HAVE contradicted yourself. I pointed out 3 occasions of it. Again, you tried to argue, that Othmann was a good skater and that SKATING is key to "plowing people over" . Yet when you find out Farabee is actually a far superior skater to Othmann, all of a sudden it no longer matters, That's called a contradiction.

Huh? Now you are just repeating the things I said to you? hahahaha

Just give it up. You are embarrassing yourself.... again.

Take care. Keep losing arguments. It's highly amusing.

No contradiction at all
Do you really wanna tell me that the best skater is automatically also the best hitter? Or what?
Farabee is an exceptional skater. Nobody is gonna argue with you about that one but not all great skaters are effective when it comes to physicality. Some just aren't aggressive enough, some just aren't strong enough. I think both applies to Farabee.

What I said is that bad skaters can't be effective hitters. Guys like Ryan Reaves are just too slow. He may catch somebody once in a while but to be really effective he's just too slow and nowhere near mobile enough. On the wider European ice it's even more difficult, especially if you're playing a lot of minutes. You'll never be able to run over guys for 15 minutes if you can't skate. You'll never gonna catch anybody on the wider ice playing in a fast league. Othmann was way more effective along the boards than McTavish was and I think most of the difference was skating. Othmann is also much more aggressive but it was his skating that allowed him to go full speed for entire games and actually catch guys.