As of July 6th 2023 the Leafs are a better team than they were last season.

[Budz]

As of July 6, as the question states I believe we are much better than the team that opened the season last year.

IN
Bertuzzi --> Bunting
Domi --> Kerfoot
Knies --> Engvall
Lafferty --> Aston-Reese
Robertson --> Malgin
Reaves --> Aube-Kubel
McCabe --> Muzzin
Klingberg --> Holl
Timmins --> Sandin
Woll --> Murray

Which ones are worse? Same coach, new GM could make a difference. PP could be better, PK might have taken a hit.

It's hard to say we are not better.

Yet, no mentions of ROR, Schenn and Accairi?

Are we just talking about the start of the season rosters head to head?

 

[conFABulator]

Yet, no mentions of ROR, Schenn and Accairi?

Are we just talking about the start of the season rosters head to head?

That's what I understood the question to be. Who knows what rentals we get next year?

 

[tmlms13]

Depends what you're comparing it to.

July 6, 2022?
Training Camp 2022?
Day after TDL 2023?

July 6, 2022? - can't remember that far back
Training Camp 2022? - can't remember that far back
Day after TDL 2023? - at best equal

The forwards might be better. But the D is way worse. Not just to because of the in and out personnel, but because of things like Brodie & Giordano took steps backwards last year and will continue to get worse. Is Lily ever going to take that big step forward or is he now what he is?

 

[BayStBullies]

I mostly agree, but the defence is definitely weaker. Brodie faded off toward the end of the year. Any defence with Rielly and freaking Klingberg will be a dumpster fire. They got rid of Sandin in a headscratching trade. They didn't keep Schenn, who was great for them.

 

[DarkKnight]

I will say this, I like our team heading into this season more than I did heading into last season. I’m assuming we augment again at the deadline, so yes we’re in better shape imo.

 

[notbias]

As of July 6, as the question states I believe we are much better than the team that opened the season last year.

IN
Bertuzzi --> Bunting
Domi --> Kerfoot
Knies --> Engvall
Lafferty --> Aston-Reese
Robertson --> Malgin
Reaves --> Aube-Kubel
McCabe --> Muzzin
Klingberg --> Holl
Timmins --> Sandin
Woll --> Murray

Which ones are worse? Same coach, new GM could make a difference. PP could be better, PK might have taken a hit.

It's hard to say we are not better.

Malgin is better than Robertson at this point (Malgin drives the play and was great with Colorado, he basically just couldn't score here, nor could his linemates)

Muzzin is better than McCabe if he was playing, but if injuries are a concern then Bunting > Beruzzi.

Sandin > Timmins

Holl > Klingberg (but Klingberg has the potential to be much better)

NAK > Reaves

There is way more potential in the new lineup.

 

[ACC1224]

I will say this, I like our team heading into this season more than I did heading into last season. I’m assuming we augment again at the deadline, so yes we’re in better shape imo.

Bertuzzi and Domi are easy upgrades on Kerfoot and Bunting.
Klingberg is an easy upgrade on Holl.

What's not to like?

 

[Morbo]

It's debatable, the main reason for which is that all of Bertuzzi Domi and Klingberg are low IQ/poor defensive players that bring substantial weaknesses to the table to balance the greater skill level they provide.

but it's July 6 and we still don't have Matthews or Nylander signed. Hard to say for sure what will happen until those two are squared away.

 

[ACC1224]

It's debatable, the main reason for which is that all of Bertuzzi Domi and Klingberg are low IQ/poor defensive players that bring substantial weaknesses to the table to balance the greater skill level they provide.

but it's July 6 and we still don't have Matthews or Nylander signed. Hard to say for sure what will happen until those two are squared away.

They are both signed for next season.

 

[Morbo]

you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Mess]

And I don't really think it's up for debate.

But even If that doesn't happen, I don't think anybody can objectively look at this roster overall than last years team.

When you started a thread and said the Leafs are a deeper team that I thought was worthy of debate.

Now claiming the Leafs are a better team then last year that I can solidly agree on.

Addition by subtraction with Dubas, Kerfoot, Holl, Bunting, Simmonds OUT already made the Leafs better.

Treliving, Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Domi and Reaves replacing the past 1-1 makes the team better at present.

PS. I wished Murray would already be gone and Sammy signed and Leafs had a new coach and that would make them even better still.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

As of July 6, as the question states I believe we are much better than the team that opened the season last year.

IN
Bertuzzi --> Bunting
Domi --> Kerfoot
Knies --> Engvall
Lafferty --> Aston-Reese
Robertson --> Malgin
Reaves --> Aube-Kubel
McCabe --> Muzzin
Klingberg --> Holl
Timmins --> Sandin
Woll --> Murray

Which ones are worse? Same coach, new GM could make a difference. PP could be better, PK might have taken a hit.

It's hard to say we are not better.

Probably Sandin and Timmins If I had to pick one.

 

[Aashir]

Well we don’t even know if nylander is going to be on the team by the start of the season

So while they are better on paper, I’m worried about what’s still to come

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I mostly agree, but the defence is definitely weaker. Brodie faded off toward the end of the year. Any defence with Rielly and freaking Klingberg will be a dumpster fire. They got rid of Sandin in a headscratching trade. They didn't keep Schenn, who was great for them.

I wanted Schenn back too but not at 2.75 per year.

He's replaceable the right call was made.

Well we don’t even know if nylander is going to be on the team by the start of the season

So while they are better on paper, I’m worried about what’s still to come

That's why the title is what it is.

 

[Aashir]

That's why the title is what it is.

Fair enough, then barring a mysterious trade in the next couple hours, yea we are better

I liked all the one year deals, reaves a year too long but it’s whatever, just need to get rid of murray to sign Samsonov

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews not being signed is vomit worthy

Im scared we are hoing to let him walk or give him a 14M by 5

 

[conFABulator]

Probably Sandin and Timmins If I had to pick one.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I would think there could be discussion around anl couple of the other ones too.

Is Knies better than Engvall this year? I think so.

What Muzzin are we considering here? It has to be the broke lb down version and McCabe is an upgrade.

Kerfoot brought defense and PK. Does Domi's increased offense and snarl offset that? I think so.

I don't see any other than Sandin > Timmins where we have absolutely taken a step back.

 

[thewave]

As of July 6, as the question states I believe we are much better than the team that opened the season last year.

IN
Bertuzzi --> Bunting *UPGRADE*
Domi --> Kerfoot *UPGRADE*
Knies --> Engvall *UPGRADE*
Lafferty --> Aston-Reese *UPGRADE*
Robertson --> Malgin *UPGRADE*
Reaves --> Aube-Kubel *UPGRADE*
McCabe --> Muzzin
Klingberg --> Holl *UPGRADE*
Timmins --> Sandin
Woll --> Murray *UPGRADE*

Which ones are worse? Same coach, new GM could make a difference. PP could be better, PK might have taken a hit.

It's hard to say we are not better.

Added text

 

[hobarth]

I find it strange that people thought Schenn was a good d-man when he played for TO. I think good d-men need to have more attributes than Schenn, his physicality was great but the puck lived in TO's end while both him and Rielly were paired together. Two things that a good d-man needs to be able to do are skate and either pass the puck or simply move it. A good d-man interrupts the movement of the puck from the neutral zone as the opposition tries to bring it into that d-man's zone, gap control, this requires speed and IQ, this isn't something Schenn could do without speed so like Polak he simply tried to defend when the puck entered TO's end, Rielly has the speed but I've always thought his IQ was missing defensively. Schenn's lack of speed also meant that he couldn't press in the opposition's end, breakaways would surely ensue but his inability to press was further hampered by his inability to pass or move the puck. Good or even decent d-men have to be participating in all facets of the game, 1 dimensional d-men such as Schenn are not assets.

I couldn't believe that Schenn was paired with Rielly, that really was an eye opener to how poorly TO was as far as defensive depth. The same should be said of forwards, Kampf is horrible, watching him PK with Marner really points this out, Marner defends by harassing the opposition all over the ice, Kampf basically retreats and tries to defend, good goaltending is his greatest ally.

I find it hard to understand that PPs are manned by TO's best players because they are considered special teams requiring special, another name for exceptional, players but PKing which is also considered a special team job is manned by 3rd and 4th liners when really these should also be manned by TO's best players.

We see how well Marner PKs, I'll bet that Matthews and Nylander would also be as effective but we'll never know because Babs and Keefe didn't/won't properly experiment.

 

[thewave]

Malgin is better than Robertson at this point (Malgin drives the play and was great with Colorado, he basically just couldn't score here, nor could his linemates)

Robertson will be better

Muzzin is better than McCabe if he was playing

Agree

, but if injuries are a concern then Bunting > Beruzzi.

Overblown

Sandin > Timmins

Agree

Holl > Klingberg (but Klingberg has the potential to be much better)

Disagree

NAK > Reaves

Reaves has a specific role

There is way more potential in the new lineup.

 

[sxvnert]

Comparing the current lineup to the playoff lineup after shipping out countless picks + retained salaries is extremely bias. Comparing the current roster to the one that started game one last season is fair.

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

It’s different, it’s going to be worse in the regular season. Pray the ‘grit’ makes a difference in the play offs.

 

[Lauro]

The biggest upgrade is Knies in my eyes.
Bertuzzi is maybe as much better than Bunting as Domi is worse than Kerfoot.

Let's see how the D will change.

 

[conFABulator]

Added text

I agree with your assessment. I would argue that McCabe is an upgrade over the broken down version of Muzzin we knew we were getting last year.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

I am holding out for the
"AS OF September 1 thread"

I’m holding out for the as of July 7th thread. I guess he’s gonna do a daily thing and for each position?

Can he remember to do one for July 1, 2024 when Matthews and Nylander walk to market?