Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[TGWL]

Panarin was WAY better than McDavid or Draisaitl against the Panthers

Take away the last game and this still couldn't be further from the truth when comparing with McDavid. But regardless of that you still need players to get you to the playoffs and Panarin does that.

 

[Synergy27]

Nobody wins the Cup until they do and you can't build a team around guys that you know for sure can win the Cup.

I mean. Yeah, sure. But would you feel confident rolling into the playoffs next year, or the year after when Igor has a contract, knowing that Panarin is your highest paid forward and your chances of winning are largely contingent on his production? He just doesn’t seem to have a playoff style game and I don’t see how that’s just going to change one year.

 

[chosen]

The issue, as it almost always is, is the cap. You can’t make the money Panarin does and then not produce in the playoffs.

Sure, go ahead and argue that Florida is shutting down McDavid and Draisaitl too. Now go ahead and remember that Edmonton isn’t winning the Cup either.

To win the Cup, your best players need to be better than the best players on. The other team. If they’re not, you’re gonna lose. That’s it. The rest is window dressing.

Some people just don't seem to understand that if your defensemen are pinned in their own end most of the game, your forwards can't put up big numbers.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean. Yeah, sure. But would you feel confident rolling into the playoffs next year, or the year after when Igor has a contract, knowing that Panarin is your highest paid forward and your chances of winning are largely contingent on his production? He just doesn’t seem to have a playoff style game and I don’t see how that’s just going to change one year.

If we fix everything else wrong with the team, yes.

Barkov got dragged for not being a playoff guy his whole career and now he's running away with the Conn Smythe.

They fixed the actual weaknesses on the roster.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

If we fix everything else wrong with the team, yes.

Barkov got dragged for not being a playoff guy his whole career and now he's running away with the Conn Smythe.

They fixed the actual weaknesses on the roster.

I can’t ever see them doing it. I think their mentality is that if they give up 2 goals the defense did their job and the forwards have to figure it out. And when they can’t score its because they’re “not going to the hard areas” or “willing to pay the price”.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I can’t ever see them doing it. I think their mentality is that if they give up 2 goals the defense did their job and the forwards have to figure it out. And when they can’t score its because they’re “not going to the hard areas” or “willing to pay the price”.

I think both things can be true.

I don't think anyone is wrong when they say that this team won't go into the tough areas of the ice to score goals. It's been a problem forever. Panarin is as guilty of that as anyone but then again, he's been that guy for years now. He is not and will never be a guy who can carry the team through a run so yeah, the criticisms there are valid and should apply because of how much money he's making.

I also think they could have won this year with the same group of forwards doing what they did if they had competent defenders in their top 4 in place of Trouba and Lindgren. It remains their single biggest issue and what ever they do this offseason doesn't matter if they don't rectify that first.

I'm off the opinion that this team would be better off with out all 3 players listed above. While it's basically impossible to replace 120 points, Artemi himself isn't going to do that either so it really becomes weighing would you rather have what ever 2024-25 Panarin is or what ever you can get for him in a trade+what ever money is left over. I'm having a hard time seeing how we fix the defense with out pushing money out and moving him would take care of A LOT of that (both in terms of money and a return to fix at least half of our D issues.)

 

[will1066]

Hockey is the one major sport that morphs into something different from regular season to playoffs. Yes, it is hard to replace 120 regular season points. But we've all seen that finishing as a top seed doesn't guarantee that you'd get any further in a playoff run than finishing middle of the pack and getting into the post season. I prefer spreading out those 120 or even fewer points across players. ROR was the Blues' leading scorer with 77 points in 2019 but like nearly 2/3 of the roster had double-digit goals.

 

[Bread4Life]

Best player in the league right now, and no message here...

let's go hARTemi

 

[duhmetreE]

he's shooting absolute darts and it seems like he's engaging in more contact/attacking the middle.

yes it's only a few games but it's encouraging.

 

[SeanAveryTheGreatOne]

I can't watch much. How is he looking? How are he and Laf feeling about being saddled with Mika?

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

I can't watch much. How is he looking? How are he and Laf feeling about being saddled with Mika?

They haven't missed a beat although breads first period last game wasnt great he got better. Mika had his best of the season with those two not because of them but because Mika was actually playing fast and hard.

 

[Oak]

He's so amazing until he stops playing when the playoffs start. It's baffling to me how Rangers fans can swoon over a guy who does the same thing every year. You don't win a cup with a Panarin on your roster.

 

[Harbour Dog]

He's so amazing until he stops playing when the playoffs start. It's baffling to me how Rangers fans can swoon over a guy who does the same thing every year. You don't win a cup with a Panarin on your roster.

Pretty sure you're not posting where you think you are. I'm one of the harder fans on post-season Panarin, and I don't view his contract as being positive value in playoffs; and I still want to tell you to f*** off

 

[TGWL]

He's so amazing until he stops playing when the playoffs start. It's baffling to me how Rangers fans can swoon over a guy who does the same thing every year. You don't win a cup with a Panarin on your roster.

What's the game plan for no Panarin?

Do we have anything in the system immediately impact the roster? No.
Do we magically just get better players because we get rid of Panarin?

We live in a world where it's cup or bust. 31 other teams are filled with disappointing players who don't get it done. How do we make up the loss for a player performing well over a point per game pace and find ourselves in a better post season position? Of course the easy answer is "change up the core" but you don't exactly get a garmented much better core. You don't just get near 12 million and easy access to making your roster better.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Panarin is a top 3-5 winger in the league, you don't find those players available ever. He's in his prime and just scored 120 points.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

What's the game plan for no Panarin?

Do we have anything in the system immediately impact the roster? No.
Do we magically just get better players because we get rid of Panarin?

We live in a world where it's cup or bust. 31 other teams are filled with disappointing players who don't get it done. How do we make up the loss for a player performing well over a point per game pace and find ourselves in a better post season position? Of course the easy answer is "change up the core" but you don't exactly get a garmented much better core. You don't just get near 12 million and easy access to making your roster better.

Kaprizov will be UFA soon

 

[B17 Apricots]

Up until this point there's been 2 versions of Panarin. Regular season AP and Playoff Panarin. So when you're talking about replacing his production it's a bit of a false dilemma. The regular season version puts up a billion points, the playoff version there's been a big drop-off. And you can't just write it off as simple as oh it's the playoffs its harder to score, oh well... theres plenty of superstars that have no issue maintaining the same level of production in the post-season. So when you hear, well what would we do without him... ultimately you're probably not going to replicate the regular season production, that would have to be by committee. But more importantly come playoff time, up to this point he has produced like any other good player. He hasn't separated himself from the rest of the pack like he does in the regular season. And thats the issue, that's what we need from him.

I'm going to leave out that bubble qualifier thing because as far as I'm concerned those were kinda baloney (although they had the same production). In the playoffs within the last 3 years Kreider has had 43 games played and 37 points. In that same time span Panarin has 43 games played and 33 points. Kreider has outproduced him and makes 6.5$ million per, Panarin makes 11.6$ million per.

I dont think its too relevant because he isnt going anywhere... but in terms of "replacing" him unfortunately when the most important time of the year comes around he produces like just about any other good player that's making 7 million, 8 million, 9 million, etc... that's a problem. That'll be something that hopefully he can redeem himself within the next 2 years of his contract. Ultimately it's not about trying to replace a 120 point player, it comes down to trying to replace around a point per game player in the playoffs. And frankly there are a number of those guys and for much, much cheaper.

That being said in terms of the future, I wouldn't have any issue trying to retain Panarin when his deal is up. As long as he's still playing at a high level. This post wasn't meant as a shot against him, just calling a spade a spade here. He's undoubtedly a top 5 winger in the regular season, we just need to see that translate to the playoffs. That hasn't happened yet. His deal is up after next year. He'll be 35 when his next deal comes. Lots of question marks, we have young guys on the roster, we have good prospects. Theres plenty of star players that kill it at 35+. His play style, barring any serious injuries it wouldn't be hard to envision him still being a stud. But the money would have to make sense, he'd have to sign for cheaper. Otherwise we'll probably be better off spreading the money and minutes around.

 

[TGWL]

Kaprizov will be UFA soon

Kaprizov is a UFA July 2026. Last I checked summer 2024 just passed. This might be a game plan for when Panarin's contract ends but it's not for right now when talking about how NYR can't win with post season Panarin.

To acquire Kaprizov before UFA status, it's going to take what none of our fans want to give up.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kaprizov is a UFA July 2026. Last I checked summer 2024 just passed. This might be a game plan for when Panarin's contract ends but it's not for right now when talking about how NYR can't win with post season Panarin.

To acquire Kaprizov before UFA status, it's going to take what none of our fans want to give up.

Seems to line up well for when Panarin’s deal is up

 

[Siddi]

Up until this point there's been 2 versions of Panarin. Regular season AP and Playoff Panarin. So when you're talking about replacing his production it's a bit of a false dilemma. The regular season version puts up a billion points, the playoff version there's been a big drop-off. And you can't just write it off as simple as oh it's the playoffs its harder to score, oh well... theres plenty of superstars that have no issue maintaining the same level of production in the post-season. So when you hear, well what would we do without him... ultimately you're probably not going to replicate the regular season production, that would have to be by committee. But more importantly come playoff time, up to this point he has produced like any other good player. He hasn't separated himself from the rest of the pack like he does in the regular season. And thats the issue, that's what we need from him.

I'm going to leave out that bubble qualifier thing because as far as I'm concerned those were kinda baloney (although they had the same production). In the playoffs within the last 3 years Kreider has had 43 games played and 37 points. In that same time span Panarin has 43 games played and 33 points. Kreider has outproduced him and makes 6.5$ million per, Panarin makes 11.6$ million per.

I dont think its too relevant because he isnt going anywhere... but in terms of "replacing" him unfortunately when the most important time of the year comes around he produces like just about any other good player that's making 7 million, 8 million, 9 million, etc... that's a problem. That'll be something that hopefully he can redeem himself within the next 2 years of his contract. Ultimately it's not about trying to replace a 120 point player, it comes down to trying to replace around a point per game player in the playoffs. And frankly there are a number of those guys and for much, much cheaper.

That being said in terms of the future, I wouldn't have any issue trying to retain Panarin when his deal is up. As long as he's still playing at a high level. This post wasn't meant as a shot against him, just calling a spade a spade here. He's undoubtedly a top 5 winger in the regular season, we just need to see that translate to the playoffs. That hasn't happened yet. His deal is up after next year. He'll be 35 when his next deal comes. Lots of question marks, we have young guys on the roster, we have good prospects. Theres plenty of star players that kill it at 35+. His play style, barring any serious injuries it wouldn't be hard to envision him still being a stud. But the money would have to make sense, he'd have to sign for cheaper. Otherwise we'll probably be better off spreading the money and minutes around.

I wonder what all of this says about Mika who actually is a point per game player in the playoffs over the last 3 years? (ppg+ to be fair)