So the alignment is to have neither Panarin or Laf as a one time option? Is there any example of that working?
Player Discussion Artemi Panarin
- Thread starter Fugazy
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SA16
Sixstring
I had this same take a while back but other than game 4 against the Panthers and game 6 against the Canes the Rangers' PP looked bottom of the barrell since game 3 against Carolina. Could it have really been any worse? And maybe they should have tried it at times in the regular season when it went cold. There was a 10 game stretch at the end when it went cold and they didn't even try it. If it worked then it might have worked against Florida.
Doesn't intensify the game. Doesn't draw players to himself, there's no struggle, no power play either. I'd send him back to Russia to play for SKA or CSKA. Not a playoff player. It's embarrassing to watch this apparent lack of effort. It's time to say goodbye.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
I wouldnt say theres a lack of effort. Thats baloney
We saw Panarin take last years bad playoff performance to heart and make significant changes to his game.
He had a marvelous regular season and was a very consistent player. We saw him hustling back on D, shooting the pucks like a man possessed and even throwing the body around.
He didnt have a horrific playoffs. 15 points in 16 games isnt terrible. 5 goals is a little of problem. Did they need more? ABSOLUTELY
Regardless - the issue Isn't effort in my opinion even though it could seem that way to some. I just think his game doesnt translate well to the playoff style and he gets closed down too easily. Im not sure what it is you do as a player to adjust for that. You cant suddenly grow 3 inches and put on 20 lbs of muscle. It was very difficult to get into the inside on both Carolina and Florida. Its tight out there.
You could say we should have seen more on the PP but to me that was a group failure of the unit, not just on him. There are a few key players on this team that are very talented but their games dont translate well when things get really serious. Its just that simple.
Im not giving him a pass, as im just a disappointed as everyone because he disappeared for large stretches of this series, but im not going to pin it on lack of effort alone.
We saw Panarin take last years bad playoff performance to heart and make significant changes to his game.
He had a marvelous regular season and was a very consistent player. We saw him hustling back on D, shooting the pucks like a man possessed and even throwing the body around.
He didnt have a horrific playoffs. 15 points in 16 games isnt terrible. 5 goals is a little of problem. Did they need more? ABSOLUTELY
Regardless - the issue Isn't effort in my opinion even though it could seem that way to some. I just think his game doesnt translate well to the playoff style and he gets closed down too easily. Im not sure what it is you do as a player to adjust for that. You cant suddenly grow 3 inches and put on 20 lbs of muscle. It was very difficult to get into the inside on both Carolina and Florida. Its tight out there.
You could say we should have seen more on the PP but to me that was a group failure of the unit, not just on him. There are a few key players on this team that are very talented but their games dont translate well when things get really serious. Its just that simple.
Im not giving him a pass, as im just a disappointed as everyone because he disappeared for large stretches of this series, but im not going to pin it on lack of effort alone.
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He was however pretty poor in the last series. I have never seen him make so many bad passes. Tape to tape dishes directly to Panther players several times per game.
It basically seemed like he didn't want to have the puck. Which is twilight zone stuff.
It basically seemed like he didn't want to have the puck. Which is twilight zone stuff.
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Panarin's post season looks like this.
First 7 games he gets graded with an A. He was fantastic. Taking thise two to three extra skating strides to net and the middle. He was getting it done.
Last 9 games grade D. Total failure. He reverted back to the player we saw in the playoffs against the Devils.total regression. Total disaster. To add insult to injury he scores meaningless goals in the waning minutes of lost games.
I would send to him to Siberia.
First 7 games he gets graded with an A. He was fantastic. Taking thise two to three extra skating strides to net and the middle. He was getting it done.
Last 9 games grade D. Total failure. He reverted back to the player we saw in the playoffs against the Devils.total regression. Total disaster. To add insult to injury he scores meaningless goals in the waning minutes of lost games.
I would send to him to Siberia.
RempireStateBuilding
Registered User
Do you truly believe he had a good entire body of work these playoffs because of that? He had 2 points against FLA. Decent series against Carolina. Feasted on Washington. Almost half of his points came against Washington in R1 (7 pts). He didn't score a goal after G1 against Carolina.
Panarin had 120 whatever points in the regular season and had 4 GWG in the playoffs. He was also awful, but hey, he was 3rd in points on the team so that absolves him too.
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SA16
Sixstring
No, I don't think he had a very good playoffs but I think there is some extreme hyperbole going on here because it's highly unlikely the player who has 2nd on the team in points and had an even goal differential at 5v5 hurt the team. He scored more pts/game in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.
RempireStateBuilding
Registered User
Didn't hurt, but didn't help much once Florida was on deck. That's great Zib went crazy through the first 5 games against one of the worst playoff teams in history and a big G1 against Carolina, except that all dried up when they were done with Carolina. Going from over PPG in R1 and 2 to .33 PPG is a huge drop off. The 7 points in 4 games against Washington doesn't move the needle for me now seeing what followed. Not saying Zib/Panarin were contributing at Rempe's level all playoffs, but they're looked to for production to win a Cup. They both fell short when it mattered.
Anyway, don't wanna keep on discussing Zib in the Panarin thread.
Panarin wasn't good against Florida (and honestly, Washington either. Lest we forget he went 8.5 periods in that series with out recording a single SOG) but both of those series were 1000000x better than his NJD series last year or the CAR series the year before.
Anyway...
Joe Thornton is synonymous with choking in the playoffs and is considered to be one of the best players to never win a cup.
RS PPG - .90
PS PPG - .72 (net -0.18 ppg)
Here is how Panarin measures up.
Artemi Panarin
RS PPG - 1.16
PS PPG .84 (net -0.32 ppg)
The NYR numbers are worse.
RS PPG - 1.31
PS PPG - .76 (net - 0.55 ppg!)
It's not unusual to see some kind of drop off. Even Ovechkin (1.09 RS to .93 in the playoffs) and Crosby (1.21 RS to 1.12 PS) see some level of drop off.
If we just isolate the numbers to this season alone -
RS PPG - 1.46
PS PPG - .94 (-0.52 ppg)
Now sample sizes do matter and he may have had a similar 16 game stretch during the regular season, but thats kind of negated by the fact that both of his line mates produced at a higher rate in these playoffs than they did in the regular season.
It's not unusual to see some kind of drop off. Even Ovechkin (1.09 RS to .93 in the playoffs) and Crosby (1.21 RS to 1.12 PS) see it to some degree . But If there is a star player who drops off as much or more RS to PS than Panarin, I'd like to see it. I don't know that one exists. The variances as a Ranger I would wager are historically bad.
It's not like he has a strong defensive game or thuggery to lean on either. His sole job is literally to do the offense. There were problems bigger than him on this run (Trouba, Lindgren) and other players who didn't carry their water in the Florida series either (Zibanejad, Kreider) but over the last 3 years, there has been no bigger under performer than Panarin. It isn't even close.
Anyway...
Joe Thornton is synonymous with choking in the playoffs and is considered to be one of the best players to never win a cup.
RS PPG - .90
PS PPG - .72 (net -0.18 ppg)
Here is how Panarin measures up.
Artemi Panarin
RS PPG - 1.16
PS PPG .84 (net -0.32 ppg)
The NYR numbers are worse.
RS PPG - 1.31
PS PPG - .76 (net - 0.55 ppg!)
It's not unusual to see some kind of drop off. Even Ovechkin (1.09 RS to .93 in the playoffs) and Crosby (1.21 RS to 1.12 PS) see some level of drop off.
If we just isolate the numbers to this season alone -
RS PPG - 1.46
PS PPG - .94 (-0.52 ppg)
Now sample sizes do matter and he may have had a similar 16 game stretch during the regular season, but thats kind of negated by the fact that both of his line mates produced at a higher rate in these playoffs than they did in the regular season.
It's not unusual to see some kind of drop off. Even Ovechkin (1.09 RS to .93 in the playoffs) and Crosby (1.21 RS to 1.12 PS) see it to some degree . But If there is a star player who drops off as much or more RS to PS than Panarin, I'd like to see it. I don't know that one exists. The variances as a Ranger I would wager are historically bad.
It's not like he has a strong defensive game or thuggery to lean on either. His sole job is literally to do the offense. There were problems bigger than him on this run (Trouba, Lindgren) and other players who didn't carry their water in the Florida series either (Zibanejad, Kreider) but over the last 3 years, there has been no bigger under performer than Panarin. It isn't even close.
DrandonBudinsky
Black & Blueshirts
I feel like those first 7 games, Panarin was on a mission to erase his performance of last year’s Devils series.
Then all of a sudden something happened. Is it me, or did it coincide with Chytil’s return (& subsequent scratching because of an illness). There were times the cameras would be zoomed in on the bench and you’d see Panarin looking REALLY gassed and bent over on some shifts. Like he was battling something.
The team just looked different after that Game 4 against CAR. Who knows. Could just be coincidence
Peltz
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2019
- 3,895
- 5,566
They stopped scoring on the PP. That's all.I feel like those first 7 games, Panarin was on a mission to erase his performance of last year’s Devils series.
Then all of a sudden something happened. Is it me, or did it coincide with Chytil’s return (& subsequent scratching because of an illness). There were times the cameras would be zoomed in on the bench and you’d see Panarin looking REALLY gassed and bent over on some shifts. Like he was battling something.
The team just looked different after that Game 4 against CAR. Who knows. Could just be coincidence
Too soft for playoff hockey, no team wins with players like this. We have seen this before. Marchand is smaller but he is a playoff player. It’s not his size that is the issue with Panarin. His soft finesse game does not work. He needs to get some balls in his game which sadly I doubt happens. Not a payer that wins
Nobody expected Panarin to play near the net. But getting rid of the puck like that is simply unacceptable. He played the same way in the regular season, but more cleverly and technically. It's disgusting to watch this cowardice. I no longer appreciate his game. If it weren't for Shesterkin, I wouldn't watch this game at all.
Man the cope by fans is so strong. This is why these type of guys will continue to keep getting huge contracts and stifling their teams.
- Oct 23, 2014
- 30,328
- 42,996
This might just be an idiot rambling...but something that has always stuck with me with Panarin and I thought was a red flag was when CBJ pulled off that major upset sweep of TBL and in the handshake line with Kucherov he was acting happy and joyful and was confused why Kucherov was like "f*** off dude" instead of hugging and high5ing him. it's as if he couldn't grasp or feel how painful losing was for most players.
Lol...this is the bar for him? Whether he's 'hurting' the team or not?
He should be the principal reason they win games....he was far from that down the stretch.
Lol...this is the bar for him? Whether he's 'hurting' the team or not?
He should be the principal reason they win games....he was far from that down the stretch.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
Players who score will always get paid. 120 point/49 goal regular season and 16 points in 15 playoff games is so easy I guess. Florida has a way of shutting down top players in case you weren't aware. Let's look at the numbers. Panarin had 1 goal/3 assists against Florida. Kucherov after a 144 point season had 0 goals/7 assists against them, Pasternak had 110 point season and had 1 goal/2 assists in 6 games. It is what it is.
15 in 16. He was sub PPG with his line mates producing at a higher rate than they did in the regular season.
Do you want to look at the bigger body of work for those guys?
RS PPG - 1.08
PS PPG - 0.97 for Pasta, who actually got heat for how he played during these playoffs.
RS PPG - 1.20
PS PPG - 1.12 for Kucherov
Plus Kuch's 7 points in 5 games was more than any Ranger was able to muster up against Florida in 6 so I don't really know that this is the example I'd want to use for someone being shut down by Florida. I would have taken 7 assists in 5 games from Panarin, we probably win one of the games they lost between games 1-5 if that happened.
It's fine to say that this was the first playoff hes had as a Ranger where he actually showed a pulse at times but a pulse for a few games isn't enough when you're making 11.6 a year. When you make big money, big expectations follow and no one has underperformed in the playoffs more than this guy.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
Says the guy who has "go away panarin" as his signature. Listen you are hater. That is a fact. You were bitching about him 2 periods into the playoffs. My point stands. Pasternak scored 1 goal and 2 assists in 6 games against Florida. He was invisible. Kuch did have 7 assists but he also had zero goals. I don't know whether those assists were primary or secondary also. I watched some of those games and he wasn't that noticeable. All of these guys make a shit ton of money.
Aside from last year his total playoff numbers really aren't as bad as you make them seem. 16 in 15 this year, 16 in 20 in 21-22 with a few being GWGs, 11 in 10 in in 18-19 with Columbus, 7 in 6 in 17-18. Over his entire playoff career he is a .84 PPG player. He has neither lit it up or shit the bed. I also predict Florida will contain Edmonton's big guns and there will be a lot of crying after that series.
Again it’s 15 in 16. They played 16 games in the playoffs and he had 15 points. He had 120 points in the regular season. Both of
His line mates produced at a higher rate in these playoffs than they did in the regular season and he saw his PPG fall off by about .5 per game.
.84 looks okay until you see that he is at 1.16 for the regular season. Find me another star player who sees their production drop off that drastically. You won’t.
Plus what he did as a blue jacket is irrelevant to what he’s done as Ranger. He has been a massive playoff underachiever here no matter how you want to slice it.
Not here for the excuse train or the mental gymnastics again. I would have rather he actually taken charge this year so we didn’t have to have this conversation but it’s another year where he under performed.
Better than last year? Absolutely. Better than the year before that? Yup.
Good enough? Not even f***ing close.
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
- 13,001
- 24,419
Panarin's got more to give but I thought opponents trying to stop him gave Trocheck and Laf a lot of space to operate. Both guys scored well above their career averages in the playoffs. The timely goals from Bread also mean something to me. The PP drying up like it did when it did was not ideal. Mika and Kreider being ball hogs, and Fox skating in quicksand, neutered Panarin in my opinion. Not to mention they stopped calling penalties after game 3 of the Carolina series. When they needed a goal they were predictable, and feeling the pressure, and didnt do enough to get their top option the puck.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
Yes, 15 in 16. I'm pretty sure most star players do not produce at the same PPG rate as the regular season simply because they are playing better teams who play defense. I'm also too lazy to look up those stats. You keep mentioning that his linemates were more productive than him and this is true, both Trocheck and Laf played well. I also think that Florida was committed to shutting down who they thought were the biggest Ranger scoring threats. Every time Panarin got the puck there was 1 or 2 guys right on him. Like I said earlier they will also shut down the Oilers biggest threats. Book it.
Panarin - 1 goal, 2 assists
Kreider - 1 goal, 1 assist
Mika - 0 goals, 2 assists
SA16
Sixstring
Regular Season/Playoffs Pts/82 games
Crosby: 103/92
Ovechkin: 89/76
Malkin: 93/83
Kane: 86/79
Kopitar: 73/66
Stamkos: 86/65
Pavelski: 66/58
Giroux: 74/70
Tavares 77/61
Backstrom 77/67
That's your top 10 active scorers as of this year. Every single one worse in the playoffs by an average of 11 points.
Yeah as mentioned, almost everyone experiences some level of drop off. Guys like Draisatl and MacKinnon (who see their production rates increase) are rare.
Here is Panarin btw.
92/69
thats 23 points and a bigger fall off than anyone on that list and well above the 11 point average.
As a Ranger -
107/62
Thats a 45 point drop off.
