Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[TopShelfSnipes]

I agree there are some on-ice changes that could help Panarin, but he put up 92 points. It’s not like he had a bad season. The player needs to buy in come playoff time. He needs to find it within himself to make things happen.

He can do it. And he’s the type of character to care and want to succeed, I don’t view him as a narcissist at all. Not sure where that’s coming from. Bc he didn’t want to play with Kakko and makes a lot of money?

He didn't have a bad season. He probably goes over 100 points if the coach realizes in early November as any semi-knowledgeable hockey fan could, that him and 16 don't belong on the ice together, ever, at even strength.

He's a puck distributor, that means he will work better with guys who can go places and get open. Trocheck is not good at getting open. He is a decent skater with a good motor and good straightline speed who can carry into the zone generally favoring the right wing, and once he gets into the offensive zone, he scores almost all of his goals from near the net off rebounds, deflections, or broken plays. When Panarin does a curlback, Trocheck will continue low into the zone and does not take high forward checking pressure off Panarin - which is what forces him into bad passes - and does not go anywhere he's open as a viable option unless Panarin is going to wrap it around the boards and hope that he gets behind the net first. He is either unwilling or unable to change his game to drive the left side of the ice without the puck to create space for Panarin, and Panarin is either unwilling or unable to change his game to either carry the puck in on the right wing, or to drive the left wing in zone entries to force the play low, either of which would open more options. The thid player on that line changed throughout the series as at times it was Tarasenko, at times it was Kane. Kane was completely ineffective on that line since he prefers to play very similarly to Panarin at this point (enter zone, stop, look for options) which also doesn't work with Trocheck. Tarasenko was all over both ends of the ice, but as a shooter, was not able to get set up for a shot because the unit couldn't maintain possession. Often, Tarasenko would end up having to be the guy to retrieve Panarin's cross corner dump in from just inside the blueline when he curled up and saw no options, but that was 50-50 at best because our team was terrible at puck support in board battles all series, and it also meant Tarasenko wasn't setting up in a place to shoot.

Panarin had a couple of chances - the big one being yeeting a rolling puck over the net late in one of the losses which would have been a tough shot for anyone in the league - but in general that line was not creating chances, was not possessing the puck. And it's literally because they couldn't get up the ice with possession because of awful team play (read: lack of chemistry) rather than anything with how any one of them was playing.

The more I think about it, the more I think you can't even really evaluate Panarin's playoff fairly because he was basically put in terrible situations by his coach (he wasn't the only one!), and if not for Kreider's PP antics (which almost equaled his PP goal scoring from the regular season), I don't think the PP was the relief valve people thought it was because it looked pretty terrible at times too.

 

[Callafan24]

Has anyone ever seen Panarin fake his "signature" curl-back... and then cut forward instead?

He's so talented. At times he lifts sticks and backchecks. But more than anything else he's incredibly predictable. And in the playoffs - when you play the same team multiple times - it's pretty easy to figure out how to defend him.

He and nearly everyone else need to improve their skating this summer.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Nice to see some common sense for once regarding the all time leader in points per game as a Ranger in the last several posts.

 

[tomobson]

Panarin has to play with Mika. Kakko as the RW would be perfect too. He keeps the puck in the zone better than almost anyone and he's so cheap next season. Stacking Panarin and Mika also makes it easy to create a 2nd line that creates off the cycle. Kreider or Laf with Trocheck is already 2/3 of the puzzle or they could be the whole line if one of them can move to RW. I understood separating Mika and Panarin when Strome was here but once Trocheck came along I saw no reason not to pair Mika with Panarin. Trocheck is too much of a N/S player for Panarin. Kreider or Laf makes much more sense with Trocheck. You'll have the same problem with Panarin/Chytil as well. There is one center on this team now that pairs the best with Panarin.

I love Mika but he's a floater in the ozone and I don't think much can be done to change that at this point in his career same with Panarin. Put the two floaters together instead of spreading out two floaters on two lines infecting both lines with the floater virus. Give that line one of the best board workers and puck possessors in the league in Kakko and see what you got. You hope the next coach can get Mika and Panarin to shoot a little bit more.

 

[Synergy27]

I don’t know who is calling Bread a narcissist. He’s just a guy who has no interest in the crease, or in putting opposing defenders under duress.

 

[will1066]

Gagarin for Panarin has a nice ring to it

 

[Row I Goon]

Bread is as good for turnovers as he is for points.

That’s what gave me the shits about him this season - he’s contributing for AND against.

 

[huerter]

Overdrive talking about whether goalies should be making 10 sheets...

Noodles: "I'll take Bobrovsky over Panarin and his dry hair on the wing doing nothing".

 

[RangersFan1994]

Bread is as good for turnovers as he is for points.

That’s what gave me the shits about him this season - he’s contributing for AND against.

And is nowhere to be found in the playoffs. Rangers management thought we would win with him. Yea win with someone that is scared of playoff hockey

 

[TheWrongWay]

Step 1: Hire Sutter
Step 2: Panarin will waive his no trade to get as far away as possible
Step 3: Trade Panarin to Ottawa for Debrincat
Step 4: Leak some BS report that Sutter shot a puck at a player in Calgary during a practice as a form of punishment forcing the NHL to send him to Quenneville purgatory

I thought step 1 was collect underpants

 

[Jauffre]

Cut down that ridiculous Zuccarello-esque stick 2-3 inches and tell him to move his feet and start creating space again. And to actually skate with purpose, to get to places - not just dance around in a stationary position, and/or chill at the half-wall. His game has changed - bad habits have crept in. He doesn't have a ton of mileage, he's just not that old yet. It's purely stylistic + effort IMO.

 

[IchabodCrane]

Nice to see some common sense for once regarding the all time leader in points per game as a Ranger in the last several posts.

You shouldn’t be talking about common sense. You are on a different plane than most people.

 

[Crease]

Nice to see some common sense for once regarding the all time leader in points per game as a Ranger in the last several posts.

I know you’re feeling pretty good after being the only person right about Kravtsov, so go gentle on us.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Panarin doesn't really fit with anyone and thats a problem.

At 11.6, he's supposed to be someone who can fit with anyone.

 

[McRanger92]

Panarin doesn't really fit with anyone and thats a problem.

At 11.6, he's supposed to be someone who can fit with anyone.

He should make it his business to fit with anyone. I love how Trocheck gets the blame for Panarin making 0 adjustments this year and leaving Trocheck to cover for all his defensive woes and turnovers. No wonder it didnt work.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He should make it his business to fit with anyone. I love how Trocheck gets the blame for Panarin making 0 adjustments this year and leaving Trocheck to cover for all his defensive woes and turnovers. No wonder it didnt work.

I just don't think he can. He plays a specific way and has developed so many bad habits that it doesn't really matter.

You know who DOES actually play pretty well with everyone? Kreider.

And Vesey.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

He should make it his business to fit with anyone. I love how Trocheck gets the blame for Panarin making 0 adjustments this year and leaving Trocheck to cover for all his defensive woes and turnovers. No wonder it didnt work.

If that was directed at me, I'm not blaming Trocheck at all. He is what he is, and he was great with Kreider on the rare chances those two were allowed to play together.
This is 100% on our dipshit former coach who refused to see the writing on the wall.

Lots of good and great players simply aren't compatible. It is what it is. Let each of them be good at what they're good at, and let them play separately. The former coach would've done a lot of good if he left Kreider with Trocheck and let those two play gritty north-south hockey with speed and crash the net/go for deflections and rebounds - which they were good at when they played together - instead of trying to shoehorn Kreider with Zibanejad at even strength just cuz they're friends even though that pair struggled at even strength all year too (despite being a solid PK tandem).

Look at all the trouble the Pens had over the years finding consistent wings for Crosby. Seems like every year or two they were bringing somebody in to try them with him. He still put up points though.

You wouldn't put Gretzky, Oates, or Larionov with a winger that doesn't like to shoot. Why put a guy who lives for the cross-seam pass with a guy who is not very good at getting open in the offensive zone for clean looks, and doesn't have a good one-timer? Why put a guy who likes to post up on the left side either just inside the blueline or along the half wall with a guy who's preference is to drive the two other lanes, which don't have the benefit of creating space the guy who likes to post up can use? Why put two guys who are both above average puck carriers and like to carry in to the offensive zone - rather than dump - on the same line, when getting across the blueline with possession has been a problem all season for four lines, any which of the other three could use a skilled puck carrier?

All of that is on the coach, not Trocheck or Panarin. Coaches can ask players to change systems, but once you get too deep into telling offensive players how to play in the offensive zone, that's when you risk taking players out of what has made them successful / is their identity. No reasonable NHL player is going to get upset if a coach wants them to play a certain way in the D zone or in transition. But no scoring player is going to like it if you tell them to completely change their style offensively, and there's a strong argument it's not in the best interest of team success to ask guys to play vastly out of role which is why it's so important the vision of the team align between the GM and the coach.

We had the right personnel this year, and would've benefitted from a playoff in which most of the top teams went home early, but we couldn't get out of our own way against a very beatable NJ team and now can look forward to the next rebuild/retool with the core a year older and the key deadline acquisitions that covered up the team's biggest weaknesses all likely leaving via free agency given our cap situation.

Because we aren't winning anything with Jimmy Vesey in the top 6 again, and Ben Harpur playing regularly on defense.

 

[duhmetreE]

Panarin doesn't really fit with anyone and thats a problem.

At 11.6, he's supposed to be someone who can fit with anyone.

Strutcure would help

 

[McRanger92]

If that was directed at me, I'm not blaming Trocheck at all. He is what he is, and he was great with Kreider on the rare chances those two were allowed to play together.
This is 100% on our dipshit former coach who refused to see the writing on the wall.

Lots of good and great players simply aren't compatible. It is what it is. Let each of them be good at what they're good at, and let them play separately. The former coach would've done a lot of good if he left Kreider with Trocheck and let those two play gritty north-south hockey with speed and crash the net/go for deflections and rebounds - which they were good at when they played together - instead of trying to shoehorn Kreider with Zibanejad at even strength just cuz they're friends even though that pair struggled at even strength all year too (despite being a solid PK tandem).

Look at all the trouble the Pens had over the years finding consistent wings for Crosby. Seems like every year or two they were bringing somebody in to try them with him. He still put up points though.

You wouldn't put Gretzky, Oates, or Larionov with a winger that doesn't like to shoot. Why put a guy who lives for the cross-seam pass with a guy who is not very good at getting open in the offensive zone for clean looks, and doesn't have a good one-timer? Why put a guy who likes to post up on the left side either just inside the blueline or along the half wall with a guy who's preference is to drive the two other lanes, which don't have the benefit of creating space the guy who likes to post up can use? Why put two guys who are both above average puck carriers and like to carry in to the offensive zone - rather than dump - on the same line, when getting across the blueline with possession has been a problem all season for four lines, any which of the other three could use a skilled puck carrier?

All of that is on the coach, not Trocheck or Panarin. Coaches can ask players to change systems, but once you get too deep into telling offensive players how to play in the offensive zone, that's when you risk taking players out of what has made them successful / is their identity. No reasonable NHL player is going to get upset if a coach wants them to play a certain way in the D zone or in transition. But no scoring player is going to like it if you tell them to completely change their style offensively, and there's a strong argument it's not in the best interest of team success to ask guys to play vastly out of role which is why it's so important the vision of the team align between the GM and the coach.

We had the right personnel this year, and would've benefitted from a playoff in which most of the top teams went home early, but we couldn't get out of our own way against a very beatable NJ team and now can look forward to the next rebuild/retool with the core a year older and the key deadline acquisitions that covered up the team's biggest weaknesses all likely leaving via free agency given our cap situation.

Because we aren't winning anything with Jimmy Vesey in the top 6 again, and Ben Harpur playing regularly on defense.

It was not directed at you. Just a general thought

 

[Profet]

Strutcure would help

This...

all day this...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Strutcure would help

Spamming royal road passes when the lanes are blocked isn't going to work no matter what system you play in. Allowing yourself to get funneled into dead space and turning it over isn't going to work either. These are not structure issues, these are Panarin issues.

It's clear that a physical decline has led to him taking a massive hit in his decision making, but that doesn't make it an excuse. It doesn't really matter what structure he plays within, his game itself needs to change and I doubt that he's willing to do it.

 

[duhmetreE]

Spamming royal road passes when the lanes are blocked isn't going to work no matter what system you play in. Allowing yourself to get funneled into dead space and turning it over isn't going to work either. These are not structure issues, these are Panarin issues.

It's clear that a physical decline has led to him taking a massive hit in his decision making, but that doesn't make it an excuse. It doesn't really matter what structure he plays within, his game itself needs to change and I doubt that he's willing to do it.

When no one is creating lanes, it would. It doesn't mean it would be 100% but the team never creates space or lanes for the puck. He forces way too much, stop skating, stop attacking the middle and his shot has been subpar ( according to his standard )

He doesn't help himself because he stops skating. It's a 360 mess. Players aren't blameless but the foundation was rotten to begin with.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

When no one is creating lanes, it would. It doesn't mean it would be 100% but the team never creates space or lanes for the puck. He forces way too much, stop skating, stop attacking the middle and his shot has been subpar ( according to his standard )

He doesn't help himself because he stops skating. It's a 360 mess. Players aren't blameless but the foundation was rotten to begin with.

He doesn't do himself any favors even in those situations. He doesn't believe in resetting and extending plays. I don't expect him to be a retrieval hound, but he doesn't do a good job of allowing his teammates to do that work for him either. Extended zone time=more chances for the other team's D to slip up (lanes will open up.) He drives the one and done nature of who ever he plays with.

I don't really see that changing. He's very much who he is (or will be, which frightens me.)

 

[duhmetreE]

He doesn't do himself any favors even in those situations. He doesn't believe in resetting and extending plays. I don't expect him to be a retrieval hound, but he doesn't do a good job of allowing his teammates to do that work for him either. Extended zone time=more chances for the other team's D to slip up (lanes will open up.) He drives the one and done nature of who ever he plays with.

I don't really see that changing. He's very much who he is (or will be, which frightens me.)

Panarin is guilty of it. I'm not giving him a free pass but he did what everyone else was doing. No one did it on the team. It was a team wide issue. I don't think they need to be micro-managed like Quinn did ( maybe they do need it to that extent ) but there needs to be a foundational gameplan on how to create space and support for the puck. Moving your legs to properly support the puck is a great start.

Everyone stops skating. On defense, transition and on the attack. We'd go into a 'coast and puck watch' mode. Surprisingly, that's easy to defend/play against. Who would have thought....

If this team learns to move as a unit and with a tactical purpose, thing will open up for Panarin and we'd start seeing glimpses of 2019.

 

[CLW]

This team has the talent to win a cup (so no need for Eichel eg.) What it does not have is a team that plays like a modern team along with balance issues eg the "top 6", failure to integrate the "kids" and too many similar D with only Fox truly comfortable with puck movement/creativity (Miller has promise but he was shackled by a conservative approach to D).

Drury has to fix those glaring issues this summer (not that I think he will/is capable).