Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[Platano King]

Man he still paced for 105pts this season, regardless of his defensive play or how he's done it that is absolutely elite production and if you subtracted that from this team we would be hard pressed to make the playoffs. Even this "down year" was one of the most productive seasons in franchise history. He is so under appreciated by this fanbase, now I won't critique YOU specifically as you are rational when it comes to our underperforming youth like Kakko so I don't think you're being a hypocrite. But every excuse under the sun is given for these guys when the 2nd overall pick in his D+3 season in his "strong playoffs" has 5pts in 18gp. Panarin has OVER THREE TIMES as many points. If our young kids produced at the rate Artemi was while he's supposedly been garbage, everyone would be over the moon.

Seriously dude. He's our best forward since Jagr, period. This thread has me believe that some people are actually yearning for the days where our top scorer was 60 point Derek Brassard.

 

[Synergy27]

By the way most of you were talking I'd have thought Panarin was the only player on the ice during his shifts. The whole team sucks if you look at the above stats. I'm going to laugh when it's disclosed Panarin has a leg injury after the playoffs.
NY fans are fair weather fans at best. You don't deserve a player like Panarin.

Flame shield up ready for the incoming bombs.

I don’t “deserve” a player like Panarin. Ok.

Not even sure why I’m responding to this post. Zero substance.

And I won’t laugh when I find out Panarin is hurt. I’ll breathe a sigh of relief because it might mean that he can still return to form and justify being the second highest paid player in the league.

Does anyone else remember when Tampa fans said the same thing about Kucherov? Ask Bolts fans in 2019 and they say he creates bad turnovers, is a floater, doesn't play defense, vanishes in the playoffs etc... Would anyone in their right minds say that now?

I like to look at precedent. The precedent shows that Artemi has been an elite scorer and play driver for much of his career. The precedent shows that Artemi is the most productive player the Rangers have had since Jagr. Even this season, a down year where he still scored 96 points, he was our best player post-deadline and pre-injury. Injuries have mental impacts too and people often forget that- even if he's physically ok, he's clearly shying away from contact and off his game mentally- just like Mika last year after the neck injury.


Obviously, but my point is that there isn't anyone the Rangers can get in return that can tangibly improve the team. Panarin has a $12m cap hit and is 30 years old, and plays wing, which is a need for very few teams in the NHL. I don't think there would be a single team that has a combination of assets, desire, and/or cap space to make it work. Anyone trading for Artemi would have to be a contender just based on his age alone. Since its a pipe dream, why entertain the prospect? We need to make it work, especially when it is well known that Artemi is capable of game-changing play. There would be nothing more frustraing than dumping Artemi for less value than what he's worth and watching him return to form on another team.

Every star player has down years and bad playoff performances. People thought Ovi was cooked in 2012, and Kane had a very disappointing performance that same year to the point where some thought Jordan Eberle was better. Stamkos was an injury prone liability and playoff choker. Crosby was washed up and a playoff vanishing act who would retire with only one cup. Et cetera. The overreactionary hot takes are insane when Panarin has a track record of 5+ of elite play in both the regular season and postseason. If he still looks like this by the 2023 playoffs? Maybe you have a point. But its been one middling season and 18 bad games affected by injury. A little bit early to call for his head, no?



If you think Panarin's a choker I want to see how you react in the hypothetical scenario we get Matthew "0.5 playoff PPG" Tkachuk, lol.

The only hypothetical trade I'll do is maybe Petterson. Even he looked like dogwater at the start of his season, and many questioned his contract. And do you honestly think any of the players you mentioned has the capability to transform the game the way Panarin does? You don't win without that transformational skill, period. You need a Kucherov, a Kane, an Ovechkin, a player that can change everything in one play. Panarin is capable of that, an Ehlers/Forsberg combo isn't. The 2012-15 Rangers had a deep and well rounded forward group, and it didn't mean shit in the end without a transformational talent that could tip the scales.

And you're just making shit up at this point with that last sentence. Coach killer? Because hard-ass Tortorella and 3x cup champion Quennville famously hated him.

Kucherov had a 57% HDCF% in the 2019 playoffs. He was also 25 years old and on the upswing.

 

[Row I Goon]

I love Bread and he is a key reason for us playing in June but I was racking my brain for memorable highlights from him to date and it's just that single GWG - he's due a big game and hoping it's the next one

 

[Chaels Arms]

Yea my theoretical was imagining if his contract was just deleted, didn't exist, didn't sign him; what we should've done with the money instead.

I may be in the minority and I acknowledge I am a very eccentric guy with an erm... unique, perspective on hockey; but I would argue our team is actually too X's & O's "play the right way" and not flashy, fast, or skilled enough. Watching teams like Colorado & Tampa they are so much more dynamic and dangerous than us. We play such a simple game, dumping pucks in, not taking risks, we play not to lose, we don't play to win. Laf & Kakko have had the creativity they flashed in juniors zapped out of them. I think we would be in a much better spot if we told those guys to just play their game and try all the flashy shit they want, go create offense, forget about trying to develop into 200-ft responsible guys who play the right way. Those guys are a dime a dozen. 1st and 2nd overall picks are supposed to be offensive superstars.

I know I care more about flash, swagger, etc than most fans but what's the reason we watch sports in the first place? If hockey was completely boring and didn't get your blood pumping we wouldn't watch it nor would we care if we won. Hockey is entertainment at the end of the day. Yea I want to win but I want to have fun doing it. I don't know if Panarin is really a coach killer, the ultimate hardass, no fun, "play the right way" enthusiast himself (Torts) absolutely loved Panarin.

If the Rangers won a Stanley Cup and every single game we won was a 1-0 shutout where our only goal every night was a dump in that bounced off the opposing team's defenseman and in their net I would be ecstatic.

I find nothing about Panarin passing the puck to the other team over and over again at 5v5 to be "fun."

 

[huerter]

Nobody loves a 50 foot glide to the bench while waving on his teammate like Mr Rizzy's dad.

 

[Mike in Houston]

When you look at his career playoff stats do they scream playoff performer to you?

He's 16-28-44 and a -12 in 48 career playoff games (including the bubble) and he's never played in more playoff games in a single season than this year.

If all things are equal then his on-ice play in the regular season just doesn't seem to translate to playoff style hockey. The things he could get away with from October-May he simply can't get away with now.

 

[excaliber]

When you look at his career playoff stats do they scream playoff performer to you?

He's 16-28-44 and a -12 in 48 career playoff games (including the bubble) and he's never played in more playoff games in a single season than this year.

If all things are equal then his on-ice play in the regular season just doesn't seem to translate to playoff style hockey. The things he could get away with from October-May he simply can't get away with now.

The ice tightens up quite a bit in the playoffs for everyone not just Panarin. He's not a very good skater in fact I'd say he's average at best. His Stamina is severely lacking and he needs some major cardio work this off season.

He doesn't have his normal speed and it's apparent on all his semi breakaways. He just can't get separation and I'm thinking he's got a lingering knee or groin issue going on. He just doesn't look right at all.
it will be interesting when the injury reports come out after the playoffs to see what's up with him.

 

[bouds]

I mean Torts always had good things to say Panarin, and still does to this day, and we all know that Torts isn’t putting up with shit D/back checking, which is why Panarins two way game was exceptional under him. Bottom line, he’s doing what a few other posters have already pointed out, chucking blind passes and hoping he strikes gold, it’s just not the 19-20 Panarin, that simple, we don’t have to create a narrative. His play speaks for him. When he’s on, as he was late in the year, the guys a joy, but right now it seems like he has no answers and he’s forcing everything.

It’s not all his fault, but hes paid top dollar so he’s going to get top tier criticism thrown his way.

 

[ajdj10]

How well did he play in the playoffs when Columbus swept Tampa?

 

[mike14]

How well did he play in the playoffs when Columbus swept Tampa?

I'd actually be interested to know this too. When you sweep a team like TBL my immediate assumption is that the whole team is playing pretty damn well and everyone is contributing somewhere.

A quick look at hockey-reference shows his 5 pts in 4 games (2g, 3a) as being:
- Game 1: Primary assist on the GWG, scored on the PP late in the 3rd
- Game 2: Primary assist on the PP to make it 3-0
- Game 2: Goal at EV to make it 5-0
- Game 3: Primary assist on an ENG to make it 3-1
- Game 4: ENG to make it 5-3
CBJ scored 19 goals in the series, with 9 of them being at even strength

 

[LokiDog]

I'd actually be interested to know this too. When you sweep a team like TBL my immediate assumption is that the whole team is playing pretty damn well and everyone is contributing somewhere.

A quick look at hockey-reference shows his 5 pts in 4 games (2g, 3a) as being:
- Game 1: Primary assist on the GWG, scored on the PP late in the 3rd
- Game 2: Primary assist on the PP to make it 3-0
- Game 2: Goal at EV to make it 5-0
- Game 3: Primary assist on an ENG to make it 3-1
- Game 4: ENG to make it 5-3
CBJ scored 19 goals in the series, with 9 of them being at even strength

So of 19 goals, he factored in 5, two of which were empty net, one which was at even strength but made the score 5-0 (hardly pivotal) and two of which were PP points. Sounds about right. Point per game on paper, but an even strength goal to make it 5-0, points on two empty net goals and a couple of PP points paints a more Bread-like picture.

 

[EdJovanovski]

So of 19 goals, he factored in 5, two of which were empty net, one which was at even strength but made the score 5-0 (hardly pivotal) and two of which were PP points. Sounds about right. Point per game on paper, but an even strength goal to make it 5-0, points on two empty net goals and a couple of PP points paints a more Bread-like picture.

Man you legit hate this guy now LOL

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Panarin was like the 7th most impactful player for CBJ when they swept Tampa.

That doesn't mean he was bad (I'd take that version over what we're currently getting.) We shouldn't be ignoring what he did in that series but we also shouldn't be acting like he single handedly led the charge there.

 

[huerter]

 

[LokiDog]

Man you legit hate this guy now LOL

I’ve always disliked players like him. I didn’t want to sign him at all. He endeared himself in year one playing a much more involved game than I expected. It disappeared and he’s been who I thought since. Players like Panarin, Gaudreau, etc. have lots of fans because of the numbers they put up but I have never liked one dimensional wingers who are allergic to physicality. I would take a team full of Bergeron, Marchand, O’Reilly, Landeskog over a team of Panarin, Gaudreau, Marner, etc. 100/100 times.

 

[huerter]

I’ve always disliked players like him. I didn’t want to sign him at all. He endeared himself in year one playing a much more involved game than I expected. It disappeared and he’s been who I thought since. Players like Panarin, Gaudreau, etc. have lots of fans because of the numbers they put up but I have never liked one dimensional wingers who are allergic to physicality. I would take a team full of Bergeron, Marchand, O’Reilly, Landeskog over a team of Panarin, Gaudreau, Marner, etc. 100/100 times.

1 time out of 1 you've shown you don't know Marner's game.

 

[LokiDog]

1 time out of 1 you've shown you don't know Marner's game.

I know he’s better than Panarin defensively. I’ve never been a fan - it probably has to do with him looking a few weeks older than my newborn and the overall Leafs/Bieber ‘cool kids club’ thing. I still wouldn’t put him in the other group though. Nor does the incredibly minor mention of Marner on the list of guys I wouldn’t choose impact the point I was making in the slightest.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

He has never lowered his shoulder and skated by a defender down the wing as a Ranger.

 

[huerter]

I know he’s better than Panarin defensively. I’ve never been a fan - it probably has to do with him looking a few weeks older than my newborn and the overall Leafs/Bieber ‘cool kids club’ thing. I still wouldn’t put him in the other group though. Nor does the incredibly minor mention of Marner on the list of guys I wouldn’t choose impact the point I was making in the slightest.

I get cised.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

44 points in 48 playoff games is fantastic 1st line production

 

[pld459666]

44 points in 48 playoff games is fantastic 1st line production

And yet, he looks like shit.

Imagine if he played a smarter more engaged game.

He'd have more points than games played.

Production only tells half the story

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He has never lowered his shoulder and skated by a defender down the wing as a Ranger.

I don't think this really matters. He's never really been that guy.

He absolutely WALKED Cernak last game and had a quasi clear lane to the net for a shot but he tried to pull some stupid telegraphed backhand pass BS that got picked off and pushed the other way.

He probably wasn't scoring, but he could have created a rebound chance or who knows, maybe Vasi whiffs on one. Would have been way more productive than a turnover.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

I don't think this really matters. He's never really been that guy.

He absolutely WALKED Cernak last game and had a quasi clear lane to the net for a shot but he tried to pull some stupid telegraphed backhand pass BS that got picked off and pushed the other way.

He probably wasn't scoring, but he could have created a rebound chance or who knows, maybe Vasi whiffs on one. Would have been way more productive than a turnover.

The point is he is too predictable. If he went down the wing with speed it would give him more space for the peel back play he does 10/10 times coming into the zone. Even if he doesn't take a shot and skates behind the net and switches to a backhand there to hit the trailer.

Instead he is trying these 1% chance backhand over 5 sticks. When it works sure it's a highlight reel goal. However, 95% of thr time it's catching all 3 forwards high and then our dmen are scrambling in thr neutral zone and doing a bad pinch.

 

[will1066]

44 points in 48 playoff games is fantastic 1st line production

We're just going in circles, aren't we?

The point is he is too predictable. If he went down the wing with speed it would give him more space for the peel back play he does 10/10 times coming into the zone. Even if he doesn't take a shot and skates behind the net and switches to a backhand there to hit the trailer.

Instead he is trying these 1% chance backhand over 5 sticks. When it works sure it's a highlight reel goal. However, 95% of thr time it's catching all 3 forwards high and then our dmen are scrambling in thr neutral zone and doing a bad pinch.

He also stands still when receiving the pass from the defenseman on controlled breakouts, looking to immediately make a stretch pass. The dman could make that f***ing stretch pass, he doesn't need Panarin to do it if that's Panarin's play every single damn time.

 

[Crease]

44 points in 48 playoff games is fantastic 1st line production

I don't think anyone is saying Panarin doesn't put up enough points.

The question is whether $11.5 million should buy you those points without all the turnovers and poor defense.