Around the NHL: PTO Season Becomes Waiver Season

[debaser66]

It is 2-0 lol. Eichel was fine here until he didn't want to be here anymore. All those players coexisted and couldn't do shit which would fall on the coaching. Putting this on the Pegula's is just plain lazy.

it was a mixture and a trickle down effect. one of the Pegulas main fault was they went with one rookie GM after the other instead of trying maybe a veteran option after the Murray failure. Also there was no one to oversee the disastrous decisions these 2 GMs made.
In the end the main responsibility lies with them because they hired those people and set these events in motion.
not to mention going with 2 abysmal rookie coaches in Housley and Krueger.
Some veteran coach could have gotten probably more out of that group.
the ROR trade led to a mini rebuild again and all the immediate pieces made the team a lot worse.
It was a combination of a lot of factors, they are not the at fault for everything but they are responsible for their hirings and what they set in motion.

glad it worked the 3rd time around

 

[OkimLom]

I can’t help but think that the Eichel we’re seeing now in the playoffs just wouldn’t have existed in Buffalo. Bruce Cassidy has done an excellent job transforming his two-way game, something that wasn’t worked on enough in Buffalo.

Besides that, even if Buffalo did have a “tougher” coach like Cassidy, Eichel had so much power/leverage during his tenure here, he could’ve forced the coach out. Not saying he would’ve, but it certainly did seem like we treated Eichel with kid gloves for the majority of his time here. Say what you will about tanking, but there’s no doubt that bottoming out for two years just to get him (and Reinhart) gave him incredible leverage.

I’m definitely feeling a mix of anger and jealousy towards Vegas/Eichel right now, but the trade may have been the best thing for all parties involved. It definitely isn’t a good look for Buffalo seeing RoR and (likely) Eichel go on to win cups shortly after we trade them though - I’m sure the opposing fanbases would make that trade again 100/100 times knowing it results in a cup for them.

A better coach, more than likely leads to more success, which would've made Eichel and co happy. Buffalo wasn't winning with the coaching they hired. Everybody under the sun knew that, and there seemed to be no signs that they learned from those mistakes. If I'm a young player and watching the first 5 years of my career heading down a path of less than mediocrity, I'm learning from experiences like Tavares and other players whose careers and doing what I can to get out of this mess.

It wasn't until they decided to fire Ralph, which was after the fact Jack asked to be traded, that any sort of "bright days" started. Jack was surely under the impression that Buffalo was going to fully support Ralph being here longer, due to the enhanced role they gave him.

If they fire Ralph after that first year, and allow Jack to play under Granato at the very least, sooner, I think the outcome ends differently.

 

[Der Jaeger]

A better coach, more than likely leads to more success, which would've made Eichel and co happy. Buffalo wasn't winning with the coaching they hired. Everybody under the sun knew that, and there seemed to be no signs that they learned from those mistakes. If I'm a young player and watching the first 5 years of my career heading down a path of less than mediocrity, I'm learning from experiences like Tavares and other players whose careers and doing what I can to get out of this mess.

It wasn't until they decided to fire Ralph, which was after the fact Jack asked to be traded, that any sort of "bright days" started. Jack was surely under the impression that Buffalo was going to fully support Ralph being here longer, due to the enhanced role they gave him.

If they fire Ralph after that first year, and allow Jack to play under Granato at the very least, sooner, I think the outcome ends differently.

Part of the problem was culture too. Eichel was the lead sled dog in Buffalo. He went to a Vegas team that already had a captain and the alternate captains. There was established leadership. Stone is a good captain and a veteran. Pietrangelo was the team captain for a Cup winner. Smith, Karlsson, Marchessault, Theodore, and McNabb area all holdovers from Vegas's first season. Martinez won Cups with the Kings.

Cassidy was certainly a huge benefit for Eichel. But that Vegas lineup was already stacked with talent and leadership. Eichel just had to come to the rink and play. If he gets out of line, I can't imagine Stone, Pietrangelo, and the rest of the Vegas core just sitting ideally by without addressing things.

In order for that scenario to play out in Buffalo, Murray would first need to not trade for Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner, and instead work to get more veterans. Botterill would then need to give the captaincy to O'Reilly. But because Murray surrounded Eichel (and Reinhart) with bad room influences, and then did not keep O'Reilly, it forced Eichel into a situation where he was asked to do a lot more than come to the rink any play.

 

[Thorton02]

The way Eichel bails at the last second, it gave me visions of Tim Connolly. Luckily for Eichel, the result was different.

 

[K8fool]

Part of the problem was culture too. Eichel was the lead sled dog in Buffalo. He went to a Vegas team that already had a captain and the alternate captains. There was established leadership. Stone is a good captain and a veteran. Pietrangelo was the team captain for a Cup winner. Smith, Karlsson, Marchessault, Theodore, and McNabb area all holdovers from Vegas's first season. Martinez won Cups with the Kings.

Cassidy was certainly a huge benefit for Eichel. But that Vegas lineup was already stacked with talent and leadership. Eichel just had to come to the rink and play. If he gets out of line, I can't imagine Stone, Pietrangelo, and the rest of the Vegas core just sitting ideally by without addressing things.

In order for that scenario to play out in Buffalo, Murray would first need to not trade for Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner, and instead work to get more veterans. Botterill would then need to give the captaincy to O'Reilly. But because Murray surrounded Eichel (and Reinhart) with bad room influences, and then did not keep O'Reilly, it forced Eichel into a situation where he was asked to do a lot more than come to the rink any play.

Stone and pietr are two of the shadiest, sleazy cowardly lil shites to play the game of winning without honor.. Eichel is an innocent in comparison. taintd

 

[Der Jaeger]

Stone and pietr are two of the shadiest, sleazy cowardly lil shites to play the game of winning without honor.. Eichel is an innocent in comparison. taintd

What?

 

[OkimLom]

Part of the problem was culture too. Eichel was the lead sled dog in Buffalo. He went to a Vegas team that already had a captain and the alternate captains. There was established leadership. Stone is a good captain and a veteran. Pietrangelo was the team captain for a Cup winner. Smith, Karlsson, Marchessault, Theodore, and McNabb area all holdovers from Vegas's first season. Martinez won Cups with the Kings.

Cassidy was certainly a huge benefit for Eichel. But that Vegas lineup was already stacked with talent and leadership. Eichel just had to come to the rink and play. If he gets out of line, I can't imagine Stone, Pietrangelo, and the rest of the Vegas core just sitting ideally by without addressing things.

In order for that scenario to play out in Buffalo, Murray would first need to not trade for Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner, and instead work to get more veterans. Botterill would then need to give the captaincy to O'Reilly. But because Murray surrounded Eichel (and Reinhart) with bad room influences, and then did not keep O'Reilly, it forced Eichel into a situation where he was asked to do a lot more than come to the rink any play.

I would say a major driving force behind that terrible culture was the head coach position more than the players brought in. The biggest mistake Murray did was hire a coach that wasn't interested in developing/teaching the young players. This includes Kane, Bogo, Eichel, Reinhart, and Lehner. Maybe a more in tune coach helps Lehner out with his issues. A better coach doesn't allow the room to be split between Team ROR and Team Gionta/Gorges. So many of the core issues from those days are directly impacted by the incompetent/lazy coaching we had.

Then Buffalo doubled down on hiring a rookie GM and rookie head coach without providing Housley better leadership quality players to help deal with the room. Then traded off ROR because of his attitude of "hating to lose" and accepting that as a mindset. Then they fired Housley after a year.

But enough of rehashing the history. Eichel worked out quite well being the lead sled dog. It's not like he didn't produce in that role.

Hell, Thompson was performing really badly until he ran into a coach that knew how to use him. Do we not think that the same impact couldn't happen with Eichel? We saw Reinhart start to really grow with his game under Granato.

 

[SundherDome]

it was a mixture and a trickle down effect. one of the Pegulas main fault was they went with one rookie GM after the other instead of trying maybe a veteran option after the Murray failure. Also there was no one to oversee the disastrous decisions these 2 GMs made.
In the end the main responsibility lies with them because they hired those people and set these events in motion.
not to mention going with 2 abysmal rookie coaches in Housley and Krueger.
Some veteran coach could have gotten probably more out of that group.
the ROR trade led to a mini rebuild again and all the immediate pieces made the team a lot worse.
It was a combination of a lot of factors, they are not the at fault for everything but they are responsible for their hirings and what they set in motion.

glad it worked the 3rd time around

The main problem I have with your rebuttal is that they went with a veteran coach in Bylsma and the players ran him out of town after a few years. The rookie GM's, in my opinion, is a toss up. I get the desire for a seasoned voice but most of the GM retreads are/were abysmal and we would have been calling for their heads at the same time. I actually credit the Pegula's for going the younger, new GM route as that is what the NHL is always trying to unearth.

The ROR debacle also wasn't due to them either. They paid him and he decided he didn't want to be here anymore after it, which sounds like another captain we had.

Basically to summarize, the Pegula's have done almost everything we have wanted them to do but they are still somehow the main reason in posters minds as to why the team is futile.

 

[SundherDome]

That's the whole point. The Pegula's were the ones who refused to hire an experienced GM/Team President. It was the Pegula's who went with a string of first time GMs. It was the Pegula's who hired the coaches. They've been the only constant on this shit streak, and players have left here to great success after being absolutely ridiculed by local media/fans for the sin of 'wanting to win'.

That's not the point though. The Pegula's didn't hire the coaches and I can almost guarantee they listened to "advisors" when going through GM hirings. Imagine what the board would delve into if they hired a Benning/Hextall/Holland/McPhee because those are the experienced GM's that were out there. The NHL is always searching for a fresh mind to lead a team with a new way of thinking or seeing the game, they only take retreads when they need to stabilize. There was no need to stabilize a dumpster fire so you keep trying.

The Pegula's have basically done the following
- Opened the checkbook
- Listened to hockey minds
- Stayed out of major decisions (think Jerry Jones)
- Given people leash to work the plan that was pitched
- Pulled the plug when it 100% wasn't working

We can debate the merits of these items but as a fan of a hockey team, this is exactly what I want my owners to do. Hell, I couldn't refrain from doing most of this if I was an owner.

They also had a president in Ted Black but it didn't work out.

Sometimes things don't align in the sports world and it doesn't always have to be the owners fault

 

[Beerz]

 

[Dirty Dog]

also sounds like carter hart is about to get moved

 

[dotcommunism]

That's not the point though. The Pegula's didn't hire the coaches and I can almost guarantee they listened to "advisors" when going through GM hirings. Imagine what the board would delve into if they hired a Benning/Hextall/Holland/McPhee because those are the experienced GM's that were out there. The NHL is always searching for a fresh mind to lead a team with a new way of thinking or seeing the game, they only take retreads when they need to stabilize. There was no need to stabilize a dumpster fire so you keep trying.

The Pegula's have basically done the following
- Opened the checkbook
- Listened to hockey minds
- Stayed out of major decisions (think Jerry Jones)
- Given people leash to work the plan that was pitched
- Pulled the plug when it 100% wasn't working

We can debate the merits of these items but as a fan of a hockey team, this is exactly what I want my owners to do. Hell, I couldn't refrain from doing most of this if I was an owner.

They also had a president in Ted Black but it didn't work out.

Sometimes things don't align in the sports world and it doesn't always have to be the owners fault

Idk, this ignores how they hired LaFontaine after having dinner with them, then forced him out under still somewhat unclear circumstances only a few months later, pushing Tim Murray into a bigger role than what he was hired for, less than two months after he was hired, and which he proved to be pretty bad at.

 

[yahhockey]

 

[Zach716]

Give me Carter Hart

 

[old kummelweck]

Give me Carter Hart

Would make a lot of sense here.

 

[Chainshot]

I guess I picked the wrong day to go to the beach.

 

[Zman5778]

I guess I picked the wrong day to go to the beach.

CBJ paying a 1st and a 2nd for Provorov at 30%? I get that I'm no fan of Provorov, but that seems steep to me.

 

[Fjordy]

Funny

 

[Chainshot]

CBJ paying a 1st and a 2nd for Provorov at 30%? I get that I'm no fan of Provorov, but that seems steep to me.

They swap Gavrikov for Provorov - the pick is the one from the Kings for that rental. It's not all that bad - 22OA and the Jackets still have additional 2nd next year out of the rental move.

 

[Gras]

I guess I picked the wrong day to go to the beach.

Surely you can't be serious.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

That trade should settle any possible motivations for LA to trade Matt Roy.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

That trade should settle any possible motivations for LA to trade Matt Roy.

Damn

 

[Chainshot]

Surely you can't be serious.

Honestly, every day is a good day to go to the beach.

I was more making fun that the servers slowed to a crawl after the trade.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I guess I picked the wrong day to go to the beach.

c'mon up here and breath some genuine Canadian Forest Fire smoke for a week! Air quality just went to Dangerous.

 

[Chainshot]

c'mon up here and breath some genuine Canadian Forest Fire smoke for a week! Air quality just went to Dangerous.

We have enough to handle here right now -

NASA-FIRMS

Fire Information for Resource Management System US / Canada

firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov

So it was interesting to hear the Kings are holding salary on Provorov for the Jackets. Moving Walker clears an NHL roster spot for Clarke (or maybe Spence) and moving Grans shuffles out a guy now blocked by the likely re-signing of Gavrikov.