Around the NHL: Part XVIII

[nyr2k2]

I have no problem with coaches being hard-asses out there. Literally no problem. Physically assaulting guys, using racial epithets, calling people Homophobic Slurs, psychologically abusing players? Yeah, that can go.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Torts had a temper and certainly gave off the impression that he was a bit of a slave driver, but he's by far and away one of the nicest people I've met in hockey circles.

From all I’ve gathered, Torts is demanding and direct, but he only he seems to only want the best for his players

 

[nyr2k2]

Cancel culture isn't a real thing. It's just another term socially backwards people invented to complain about not being about to say asinine and offensive ****.

I had to Google this because I didn't know what it was. Sounds like your typical #idiotspeak from a certain segment of the online population.

 

[Trxjw]

I had to Google this because I didn't know what it was. Sounds like your typical #idiotspeak from a certain segment of the online population.

Pretty much. Just a term for people to hide behind when they lose lucrative positions in society because they end up being racists or people that do/say other heinous shit.

 

[Trxjw]

From all I’ve gathered, Torts is demanding and direct, but he only he seems to only want the best for his players

Yeah I get the same impression. I'd be really surprised to find out he ever crossed any lines.

 

[Edge]

From all I’ve gathered, Torts is demanding and direct, but he only he seems to only want the best for his players

If you ever have a chance to meet or work with him, he's an incredibly generous individual and funny.

On the ice, or related to the game, he's all business and his expectations are high. But he leaves it at the arena.

Truth be told, all of the Rangers coaches over the last 15 years or so have been nothing but the epitome of class to work with. I exclude Quinn because I've yet to work with him on anything.

But Renney, Torts and AV are all genuinely good guys.

 

[Profet]

From all I’ve gathered, Torts is demanding and direct, but he only he seems to only want the best for his players

If you subscribe to the athletic (I highly recommend it) you should read:

John Tortorella, his volatile, confrontational style, and...

Came out a couple of days ago...and it generally seems players like him as a person. Although not everyone responds well to his coaching style, none called it abusive.

 

[Tawnos]

Cancel culture isn't a real thing. It's just another term socially backwards people invented to complain about not being about to say asinine and offensive ****.

The only thing I tend to be in agreement with the people who use that term is that there's an automatic call for a person to be fired over something they did decades ago. There are certain things that I don't think have any time limitation on them, related to any kind of violence. I'm more talking about things a person can make up for, like things they said or did at an earlier point that were or are unacceptable. People can change and learn to be better. A person who wore a costume with blackface as a college kid could end up becoming a politician who is a champion of minority rights in their professional life, for example. Some consideration needs to take place to determine if the person still is or acts that way.

So, I have some concern over that. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement with better holding people to account for things like this.

 

[I Eat Crow]

A bunch if sensitivity training and videos aren't going to stop these problems. It's nice that the league is stepping in and doing something, but if the problems are already employed and are being protected by enabling or indifferent front office staff, the problems are going to continue.

Team ownership and front office need to act if the abuse issues are going to away. Good on Dallas if Montgomery did something that crossed a line. I'm not going to speculate until facts come out, so I'll watch with interest for now.

I'll think that the league, ownership, and front office staff will have learned their lesson about this if people like Peters, Babcock, and Montgomery never get jobs in the industry again. If these guys find new jobs next season, it's all for naught.

 

[Trxjw]

The only thing I tend to be in agreement with the people who use that term is that there's an automatic call for a person to be fired over something they did decades ago. There are certain things that I don't think have any time limitation on them, related to any kind of violence. I'm more talking about things a person can make up for, like things they said or did at an earlier point that were or are unacceptable. People can change and learn to be better. A person who wore a costume with blackface as a college kid could end up becoming a politician who is a champion of minority rights in their professional life, for example. Some consideration needs to take place to determine if the person still is or acts that way.

So, I have some concern over that. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement with better holding people to account for things like this.

I completely agree that the "woke" world can swing things too far in the other direction as well. I think there is a ribbon of hyper-sensitivity that exists in all of it and we shouldn't go mining through decades of people's lives looking for mistakes to crucify them for. There's definitely a middle ground though.

 

[Edge]

The only thing I tend to be in agreement with the people who use that term is that there's an automatic call for a person to be fired over something they did decades ago. There are certain things that I don't think have any time limitation on them, related to any kind of violence. I'm more talking about things a person can make up for, like things they said or did at an earlier point that were or are unacceptable. People can change and learn to be better. A person who wore a costume with blackface as a college kid could end up becoming a politician who is a champion of minority rights in their professional life, for example. Some consideration needs to take place to determine if the person still is or acts that way.

So, I have some concern over that. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement with better holding people to account for things like this.

And truth be told, I'd be surprised if there isn't some understanding with that stuff as far as the NHL is concerned.

The NHL isn't necessarily the most diverse environment in which to work, though it has made strides. There's going to be a lot of things that have been said in the past, that have not and will not age well.

But I think the NHL is probably more concerned with having a baseline and a more clear understanding moving forward.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Cancel culture isn't a real thing. It's just another term socially backwards people invented to complain about not being about to say asinine and offensive ****.

Right?

And ever notice how the same people are the ones who complain about "SJWs" and "cancel culture" are the ones who consistently level invectives at parent-teacher conferences, their kids' high school games, etc.?

 

[McRanger]

When I read the league had a "4 point plan" I assumed they were going to start awarding points for losing in regulation.

 

[Tawnos]

A bunch if sensitivity training and videos aren't going to stop these problems. It's nice that the league is stepping in and doing something, but if the problems are already employed and are being protected by enabling or indifferent front office staff, the problems are going to continue.

Team ownership and front office need to act if the abuse issues are going to away. Good on Dallas if Montgomery did something that crossed a line. I'm not going to speculate until facts come out, so I'll watch with interest for now.

I'll think that the league, ownership, and front office staff will have learned their lesson about this if people like Peters, Babcock, and Montgomery never get jobs in the industry again. If these guys find new jobs next season, it's all for naught.

No forgiveness allowed, eh? No possibility for these guys to have learned from the experience?

You could be right, but I don't think it's so cut and dry that they shouldn't ever be allowed to work in the industry again (excepting Montgomery from that, since we don't know what happened).

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

The only thing I tend to be in agreement with the people who use that term is that there's an automatic call for a person to be fired over something they did decades ago. There are certain things that I don't think have any time limitation on them, related to any kind of violence. I'm more talking about things a person can make up for, like things they said or did at an earlier point that were or are unacceptable. People can change and learn to be better. A person who wore a costume with blackface as a college kid could end up becoming a politician who is a champion of minority rights in their professional life, for example. Some consideration needs to take place to determine if the person still is or acts that way.

So, I have some concern over that. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement with better holding people to account for things like this.

Sure. And for the most part society (including the non-fringe members of "woke" society) agree – as borne out by results.

Justin Trudeau...? Reelected.
Harvey Weinstein...? Whether or not he ever serves time, will never be accepted in the mainstream ever again.

 

[Tawnos]

Sure. And for the most part society (including the non-fringe members of "woke" society) agree – as borne out by results.

Justin Trudeau...? Reelected.
Harvey Weinstein...? Whether or not he ever serves time, will never be accepted in the mainstream ever again.

Some of those situations resulted in the person in the spot forcing people to wait it out by not resigning from their positions. They got to see public opinion evolve over time. The governor of VA is another example. The only thing is that a person getting fired doesn't have that option, and it's obviously easier to fire someone than it is to resign yourself.

 

[I Eat Crow]

No forgiveness allowed, eh? No possibility for these guys to have learned from the experience?

You could be right, but I don't think it's so cut and dry that they shouldn't ever be allowed to work in the industry again (excepting Montgomery from that, since we don't know what happened).

If they really show remorse and are absolute model citizens, fine. That being said, this kind of behavior from a sociological standpoint is habitual, and the offenders are very unlikely to change their methods and behaviors overnight.

Would you want a boss that called their employees racial epithets and physically assaults them if they didn't do their job well in their previous position? Sensitivity training and an apology however sincere doesn't make these people change.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

So far 4 coaches have been fired. Hynes was fired because the team is ass and he’s a bad coach who had the position for 5 years and did nothing , Babcock was fired because he lost the team and they were severely underperforming, all that other stuff came out after his firing for hockey reasons. Peters was rightfully fired for all the things that came out about him, don’t think any of that was overreacting . We have to wait and see what the Montgomery firing was for before we flip out.

 

[Edge]

I do not believe the Montgomery thing is related to assault or a form of abuse.

I can't verify what I'm hearing at the moment, so I am not going to repeat it. But I'm not hearing its a Babcock or Peters like situation.

And I also just realized how amusing it is to have the names Babcock and Peters in the same sentence.

Okay, enough frivolity. I need to get back to editing a document about Medicaid Waivers.

 

[Tawnos]

If they really show remorse and are absolute model citizens, fine. That being said, this kind of behavior from a sociological standpoint is habitual, and the offenders are very unlikely to change their methods and behaviors overnight.

Would you want a boss that called their employees racial epithets and physically assaults them if they didn't do their job well in their previous position? Sensitivity training and an apology however sincere doesn't make these people change.

Physically assaults is a different thing. That fits with the violence thing I mentioned earlier.

I wouldn't automatically assume I'm going to hear racial epithets from someone who has said them in the past. My eyes would certainly be open, though.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I completely agree that the "woke" world can swing things too far in the other direction as well. I think there is a ribbon of hyper-sensitivity that exists in all of it and we shouldn't go mining through decades of people's lives looking for mistakes to crucify them for. There's definitely a middle ground though.

Exactly. Let’s look through years of people’s tweets while we’re at it. What if an NHL star, hypothetically let’s say Connor McDavid, tweeted something stupid as a 14 year old. Should he get suspended by the NHL for it? Banned? There’s a line that has to be drawn but the big issue that everyone on here isn’t recognizing is that it’s not about holding people accountable for their actions, it’s about a certain ideology controlling speech. What is and isn’t offensive. You control speech you control thought. That to me is a far greater threat than some person saying something stupid many years or decades ago. Do I support the league cleaning up abuse? Of course I do, I don’t think anyone would disagree there. The shit with Franzen is terrible. That to me, is what the league should be focusing on, abuse like what happened with Franzen, where his life was literally destroyed. Was that other guy’s life destroyed over Peters saying something stupid? Nobody even knew who he was until now, 10 years later. When you lump that in with what happened with Franzen it minimizes the actual abuse that has and is happening. Just my opinion.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Seeing a few people say it's alcohol related. Montgomery had a radio segment he would do in Dallas, and the latest one he is on, guy sounds like he is smashed out of his mind.

But even if it's substance related, you would have to assume there's other contributing factors

 

[Cmox]

I have no issue with people being held accountable if fact I’d prefer it when justified but I just would rather it be dealt with behind the scenes. For me hockey is entertainment and entertainment is an escape from the everyday politics and messed up shit that’s happening today. I’d rather be blissfully unaware for just this one thing. I know it’s naive and I’m fully aware that it is. I just want it to be unsullied for us fans. I guess that can’t happen when we are the consumers and people like to be privy to situations. Some people just want to watch tv, movie, sports and play video games without all the nonsense. It just bums me out.

 

[McRanger]

Exactly. Let’s look through years of people’s tweets while we’re at it. What if an NHL star, hypothetically let’s say Connor McDavid, tweeted something stupid as a 14 year old. Should he get suspended by the NHL for it? Banned? There’s a line that has to be drawn but the big issue that everyone on here isn’t recognizing is that it’s not about holding people accountable for their actions, it’s about a certain ideology controlling speech. What is and isn’t offensive. You control speech you control thought. That to me is a far greater threat than some person saying something stupid many years or decades ago. Do I support the league cleaning up abuse? Of course I do, I don’t think anyone would disagree there. The **** with Franzen is terrible. That to me, is what the league should be focusing on, abuse like what happened with Franzen, where his life was literally destroyed. Was that other guy’s life destroyed over Peters saying something stupid? Nobody even knew who he was until now, 10 years later. When you lump that in with what happened with Franzen it minimizes the actual abuse that has and is happening. Just my opinion.

The NHL is a business. A business which realizes that certain idiotic ideologies are bad for business. So unless you are advocating the government step in to regulate the speech and thought of its businesses, I am not really sure what you are railing about.

 

[NYR94]

NHL coaches right now: