Tob
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- Sep 16, 2017
- 16,615
- 37,037
Around the NHL - Part XLII - (2023-24 Season edition)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
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NYR94
Registered User
Nickelback...reminds me of the early 2000s with that huge hit they had from the first Spider-Man movie
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
GENESISPuck94
Registered User
Not a big fan of those Oilers jerseys. Our new 3rds are mind of not great, but at least they're not that bad. Hopefully our outdoor game jerseys are nicer than the 3rds.
Sharks are going to be historically bad.
I blame Yzerman for throwing a tantrum and persuading other teams to change the lottery draft rules.m to its current system.
I would love to hear arguments, for and against of having a pure lottery system for the first round where all 32 teams have an equal waited chance of picking orders 1-32.
I blame Yzerman for throwing a tantrum and persuading other teams to change the lottery draft rules.m to its current system.
I would love to hear arguments, for and against of having a pure lottery system for the first round where all 32 teams have an equal waited chance of picking orders 1-32.
Cmox
Registered User
Not to cause a fire storm... I had zero intention of watching the Adam Johnson video, I open up cesspool Twitter and its the first thing on my feed this morning. Seeing some of the info behind the guy Matt Petgrave, most penalized player in the league last year, 2nd highest in the Slovak league the year prior, suspensions... I won't say it was intentional because the video is grainy, but it was super odd. Johnson got over the blue line and started cutting toward the middle.. it was almost as if Petgrave was lining up to hit him, realized he was going to miss and threw his leg out to try impeding him. To me it did not look like a guy who was just losing his balance. Beyond reckless.
Cmox
Registered User
Yeah, at first I thought he collided with other player causing his leg to fly up but it turns out the other player didn't touch him. It's looks really bad on Petgrave.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 34,548
- 52,495
I was going to post this same exact thing. It's all over twitter. He kicks him.... How was that not mentioned? I didn't want to watch the video, but in my mind it would be a freak thing where the player was on the ice or tumbling.
That's borderline manslaughter. I really don't know how that would play out in the legal system
GENESISPuck94
Registered User
A lot of talk on Instagram and such that it was intentional. This is a tough situation. We as fans and a lot us played a long time, know how random things are in hockey combined with how dangerous it can be.
I just don't know.
All I know is it was a tragic loss of life.
I just don't know.
All I know is it was a tragic loss of life.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
I finally saw the video, a less graphic clip that ends before any blood or aftermath, and it was shocking to see , after reading people’s description of it that it was a “freak accident” on a “nothing play”, when in reality the guy comes flying in with a Liu Kang jumping sidekick straight to the throat.
Even if you don’t want to say it’s intentional, it was at the very least extremely reckless.
Some people were asking about the attendance issues with Winnipeg and I read a great post not long ago that provides some solid info why.
dj4aces posted on October 20, 2023 under the topic:
I'd like to build off of this post a bit. No specific issue taken with anything said, it's just a good leaping off point.
I'm currently a Jets STH and have been since the Jets returned in 2011, being fortunate enough to get in without connections on the first day. My seats are categorized as "P3" which is to say, lower bowl but not premium. My cost per seat, per game is $125 CAD (yes, a bargain after you convert to USD but please try to recall that we get paid in CAD, not USD so there is no conversion for us). I run a group of people that all contribute to the tickets and we draft our games in September, prior to the season. I have 15 of 44 home games as the majority "shareholder".
There are a number of factors for the declining attendance, most all have been addressed here. Unquestionably inflation is playing a huge role and the concurrent increases in either rental pricing or increased mortgage rates (Canadians cannot deduct the interest from their mortgages, as can happen in many U.S. states).
When the Jets first arrived the target was 13,000 season ticket holders. The arena only holds 15xxx seats so about 85% of capacity was STH. They hit that target easily and for several years they were fine. Obviously we're now at attendance of approximately 11500 or so and though I have no way of confirming, I'd guess that's probably 95% or better STH. I say that because there's very little in the way of walk up purchases and Winnipeggers are inherently cheap, they will look for a way to get a cheaper ticket. Those cheaper tickets, which have been shown in this thread, are being sold by STH, not by TNSE.
The walk up market, I would contend, is what has been hit most by inflation. Currently that appears to be about 2000-4000 seats and I would say that it is reasonable to attribute that to inflationary causes in part. The Jets have never been viewed as an inexpensive option for a family of 4 in Winnipeg. But pre-Covid/inflation it was doable. Plus the STH numbers were higher.
So the bigger issue that Winnipeg is facing is the bleeding of STH. Part of that can be attributed to a relative lack of large corporate community in Winnipeg compared to larger centers, be they Canadian or U.S. Box sales seem to be doing well enough and I honestly don't know if they factor into attendance numbers or not. That means the regular 100/200/300 level seats are the biggest issue.
I can tell you that I likely will not be a STH next season. This is not related to the product on the ice. I understand the market realities of a team in Winnipeg - we are the least desirable market to play for in the NHL. I also understand the dislike of Chevy and what has been achieved. I try to relate that to the context of the market, but I am of the opinion that TNSE is too loyal to a fault and do not operate the team in a truly professional (or unprofessional, depending on your perspective) manner, trying too hard to be a "family" when they are in reality a business. Vegas being the counterpoint - being cold and efficient - but Vegas can be due to their market realities. Very desirable place to be, strength in performance centered around winning, something players actually want to have happen.
So why not be a STH? Several reasons:
- many in my group are no longer interested. The tickets are not inexpensive (the seats are great for game view/experience) but they see resale seats at much cheaper rates and no risk of being stuck in our draft with a preseason game ($250 for the pair of seats). They can pick or choose the games they want.
- several mini-packs available. The way our group drafts, if you only have five games, it largely works out like the mini-packs that give you 1 A game 3 B games 1 C game (A game is original six usually, B game is higher tier teams with stars, C game is lower tier teams, poor draws). pricing is very similar
- price increases on an annual basis, regardless of how team performs. In the inaugural season we paid just a shade under $7000 for our two seats. We are now at $11160. First season was 45 games, this season was 44 games (they reduced the number of preseason games by 1). Rest assured nobody's wage increased in lock step with that rate of increase.
Behavior of TNSE towards STH is a huge factor as well. I'll relate a couple of my stories that I've waded through:
In 2017 I was diagnosed with stage 4 oral cancer. As the lead of the STH group I didn't want my group to lose the seats should I not make it through treatment. I reached out to our ticket rep to have the name on the file changed. They said sure, no problem, so long as we paid the transfer fee on each seat - $750 at the time per seat. Thanks for your compassion. At the same time, I had a vacation for Hawaii planned and had to cancel the flight and condo rental. Both of those organizations couldn't send the money back to us any faster. We weren't dumping the tickets, we weren't making any sneaky changes to other people not on the wait list, it was the same damn group of people. We left the tickets in my name and I've been fortunate enough to be around still.
In 2011 when we first got the seats, we were disappointed with the location. We were told it was our only option, take it or leave it and with the demand, they weren't wrong. But we had the option of putting in a relocation request. At the start of each season I'd put in that relocation request. Each time I asked about relocation, the ticket rep would say they have nothing on file - as in no request from me. I took to making the request four times per year and forwarding each previous request with it. In 2018, in the Jets forum on this board and individual indicated they had been relocated from the 300 level to section 120, one of the sections I had requested to move to. I contacted my ticket rep to ask how this happened and they told me that it never happened and I was making stuff up. I reached out to the board member and he was very kind, giving me his old seat numbers, row and section, along with the same information in his new section, along with his full name. I provided that to the ticket rep and within a week I was moved to section 103, basically the equivalent section on the other side of the ice. But they basically called me a liar until I provided documented proof of exactly the move that had happened. I was paying higher prices and a lower priority than someone else to them. This was a completely different experience from how the local CFL team had done things for decades - they had priority ranking for STH, even in the era of rotary dial phones and hand written spreadsheets. TNSE just didn't give a crap.
For the Vegas game last night I checked my section to see what the Jets had for sale for tickets. I could find pairs of tickets in my section for $129 +$12 in fees. If you recall from the top of this verbose post my cost is $125. $4 and fees is the difference in price to sit in my section being a STH or not. Plus I get the benefit of paying $750 for three meaningless preseason games (and I like those a lot more than most as I like seeing the kids play, but I can wait till they go to the Moose and see them for $25).
At a Kings game last year I sat beside a Kings fan that was retired and was going around seeing the Kings at every arena, very cool. He was super to talk to and very interested in the Jets/Thrashers/Coyotes history. I asked him what he paid? $80 including a hot dog and a beer. I paid $122 last season.
When we've had the rare occasion to have to try and sell tickets, we've gone through the official Jets resale site. What we found is that as game time approached and our seats weren't selling, seats owned by the Jets were decreased in price, undercutting our price. We cannot sell for a price lower than the STH price we pay. But TNSE can. Just like the Kings fan got his tickets off ticketmaster for $80, had I chose to sell that game I would have had to list mine at $122, no hot dog, no beer. I can choose to sell them on other sites for less money, but that's technically a violation of my contract (rest assured, TNSE lets us know that) and we could lose our seats due to that violation.
My benefits for being a STH this year amounted to a vinyl collapsible cooler, BBQ apron and first right of refusal for playoff tickets, should they make it. For the price of three pre-season games I could have bought a Yeti of significant size.
They are largely unresponsive to any concerns you raise through your ticket rep. To put this in perspective, if this was a restaurant and I was treated as a guest the same way TNSE treats their STH, I wouldn't actually support that restaurant. I've done this with several restaurants in the past - they need to earn my business by providing a reasonable product and site experience. TNSE doesn't really do that and I think that's why they are bleeding STH. They started out thinking the fans owed them and they were in control. But now when the lustre has worn off they are paying the price in people walking away. I believe they treat the players and staff very well, but we're just their to pay and we haven't been really valued to this point, rather taken for granted. I don't believe they understand that yet.
dj4aces posted on October 20, 2023 under the topic:
"Winnipeg Jets: 11,226 Attendance tonight, cause for concern? What's going on in the 'Peg?"
I'd like to build off of this post a bit. No specific issue taken with anything said, it's just a good leaping off point.
I'm currently a Jets STH and have been since the Jets returned in 2011, being fortunate enough to get in without connections on the first day. My seats are categorized as "P3" which is to say, lower bowl but not premium. My cost per seat, per game is $125 CAD (yes, a bargain after you convert to USD but please try to recall that we get paid in CAD, not USD so there is no conversion for us). I run a group of people that all contribute to the tickets and we draft our games in September, prior to the season. I have 15 of 44 home games as the majority "shareholder".
There are a number of factors for the declining attendance, most all have been addressed here. Unquestionably inflation is playing a huge role and the concurrent increases in either rental pricing or increased mortgage rates (Canadians cannot deduct the interest from their mortgages, as can happen in many U.S. states).
When the Jets first arrived the target was 13,000 season ticket holders. The arena only holds 15xxx seats so about 85% of capacity was STH. They hit that target easily and for several years they were fine. Obviously we're now at attendance of approximately 11500 or so and though I have no way of confirming, I'd guess that's probably 95% or better STH. I say that because there's very little in the way of walk up purchases and Winnipeggers are inherently cheap, they will look for a way to get a cheaper ticket. Those cheaper tickets, which have been shown in this thread, are being sold by STH, not by TNSE.
The walk up market, I would contend, is what has been hit most by inflation. Currently that appears to be about 2000-4000 seats and I would say that it is reasonable to attribute that to inflationary causes in part. The Jets have never been viewed as an inexpensive option for a family of 4 in Winnipeg. But pre-Covid/inflation it was doable. Plus the STH numbers were higher.
So the bigger issue that Winnipeg is facing is the bleeding of STH. Part of that can be attributed to a relative lack of large corporate community in Winnipeg compared to larger centers, be they Canadian or U.S. Box sales seem to be doing well enough and I honestly don't know if they factor into attendance numbers or not. That means the regular 100/200/300 level seats are the biggest issue.
I can tell you that I likely will not be a STH next season. This is not related to the product on the ice. I understand the market realities of a team in Winnipeg - we are the least desirable market to play for in the NHL. I also understand the dislike of Chevy and what has been achieved. I try to relate that to the context of the market, but I am of the opinion that TNSE is too loyal to a fault and do not operate the team in a truly professional (or unprofessional, depending on your perspective) manner, trying too hard to be a "family" when they are in reality a business. Vegas being the counterpoint - being cold and efficient - but Vegas can be due to their market realities. Very desirable place to be, strength in performance centered around winning, something players actually want to have happen.
So why not be a STH? Several reasons:
- many in my group are no longer interested. The tickets are not inexpensive (the seats are great for game view/experience) but they see resale seats at much cheaper rates and no risk of being stuck in our draft with a preseason game ($250 for the pair of seats). They can pick or choose the games they want.
- several mini-packs available. The way our group drafts, if you only have five games, it largely works out like the mini-packs that give you 1 A game 3 B games 1 C game (A game is original six usually, B game is higher tier teams with stars, C game is lower tier teams, poor draws). pricing is very similar
- price increases on an annual basis, regardless of how team performs. In the inaugural season we paid just a shade under $7000 for our two seats. We are now at $11160. First season was 45 games, this season was 44 games (they reduced the number of preseason games by 1). Rest assured nobody's wage increased in lock step with that rate of increase.
Behavior of TNSE towards STH is a huge factor as well. I'll relate a couple of my stories that I've waded through:
In 2017 I was diagnosed with stage 4 oral cancer. As the lead of the STH group I didn't want my group to lose the seats should I not make it through treatment. I reached out to our ticket rep to have the name on the file changed. They said sure, no problem, so long as we paid the transfer fee on each seat - $750 at the time per seat. Thanks for your compassion. At the same time, I had a vacation for Hawaii planned and had to cancel the flight and condo rental. Both of those organizations couldn't send the money back to us any faster. We weren't dumping the tickets, we weren't making any sneaky changes to other people not on the wait list, it was the same damn group of people. We left the tickets in my name and I've been fortunate enough to be around still.
In 2011 when we first got the seats, we were disappointed with the location. We were told it was our only option, take it or leave it and with the demand, they weren't wrong. But we had the option of putting in a relocation request. At the start of each season I'd put in that relocation request. Each time I asked about relocation, the ticket rep would say they have nothing on file - as in no request from me. I took to making the request four times per year and forwarding each previous request with it. In 2018, in the Jets forum on this board and individual indicated they had been relocated from the 300 level to section 120, one of the sections I had requested to move to. I contacted my ticket rep to ask how this happened and they told me that it never happened and I was making stuff up. I reached out to the board member and he was very kind, giving me his old seat numbers, row and section, along with the same information in his new section, along with his full name. I provided that to the ticket rep and within a week I was moved to section 103, basically the equivalent section on the other side of the ice. But they basically called me a liar until I provided documented proof of exactly the move that had happened. I was paying higher prices and a lower priority than someone else to them. This was a completely different experience from how the local CFL team had done things for decades - they had priority ranking for STH, even in the era of rotary dial phones and hand written spreadsheets. TNSE just didn't give a crap.
For the Vegas game last night I checked my section to see what the Jets had for sale for tickets. I could find pairs of tickets in my section for $129 +$12 in fees. If you recall from the top of this verbose post my cost is $125. $4 and fees is the difference in price to sit in my section being a STH or not. Plus I get the benefit of paying $750 for three meaningless preseason games (and I like those a lot more than most as I like seeing the kids play, but I can wait till they go to the Moose and see them for $25).
At a Kings game last year I sat beside a Kings fan that was retired and was going around seeing the Kings at every arena, very cool. He was super to talk to and very interested in the Jets/Thrashers/Coyotes history. I asked him what he paid? $80 including a hot dog and a beer. I paid $122 last season.
When we've had the rare occasion to have to try and sell tickets, we've gone through the official Jets resale site. What we found is that as game time approached and our seats weren't selling, seats owned by the Jets were decreased in price, undercutting our price. We cannot sell for a price lower than the STH price we pay. But TNSE can. Just like the Kings fan got his tickets off ticketmaster for $80, had I chose to sell that game I would have had to list mine at $122, no hot dog, no beer. I can choose to sell them on other sites for less money, but that's technically a violation of my contract (rest assured, TNSE lets us know that) and we could lose our seats due to that violation.
My benefits for being a STH this year amounted to a vinyl collapsible cooler, BBQ apron and first right of refusal for playoff tickets, should they make it. For the price of three pre-season games I could have bought a Yeti of significant size.
They are largely unresponsive to any concerns you raise through your ticket rep. To put this in perspective, if this was a restaurant and I was treated as a guest the same way TNSE treats their STH, I wouldn't actually support that restaurant. I've done this with several restaurants in the past - they need to earn my business by providing a reasonable product and site experience. TNSE doesn't really do that and I think that's why they are bleeding STH. They started out thinking the fans owed them and they were in control. But now when the lustre has worn off they are paying the price in people walking away. I believe they treat the players and staff very well, but we're just their to pay and we haven't been really valued to this point, rather taken for granted. I don't believe they understand that yet.
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
Thanks for posting. I was A VGK season ticket holder for the first 3 years & I can relate to many things in this text. At some point the team needs to appreciate who's paying their freight. It's nice when the team is strong & they have a waiting list. Now that the team is middle of the pack in Winnipeg, you'd think they understand that there's no reason to pay for a full season @$125 when the walk in price is $30.
More importantly, I'm glad you're still with us....f*** cancer. Keep fighting the good fight.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
Anyone else enjoying being right about the Penguins and Karlsson so far? He gave that game away at the end tonight. Penguins can’t keep the puck out of their net as expected.
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
Better than Kakko?
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
he's gonna usher in a new era of kids using extra long, extra low flex sticks. Thing looks like a wet noodle the way he gets whip on it
They got him for a song, it was a great move for the player.
They just aren’t that good. The end of that game was LOL
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
The NHL is such a clown show with this kicking/no kicking rule. Liam O'brien of all people just gets one overturned in his favor that was way more egregious than the one Cuyllie had nullified. The yotes were up 6-1 before that goal....must really be nice to be Uncle Gary's pet project.
- Nov 14, 2018
- 3,595
- 7,758
The reffing is getting out of hand. First the Ducks game then the Rangers game. Pittsburgh did not need to be awarded a 5 on 3 because the refs feelings were hurt. Cronin getting tossed would have been more than sufficient.
Then the call on Lindgren, a critical point of the game, you don’t call even borderline stuff.
Something needs to be done and if Bettman is just going to be like “oh don’t abuse the officials” well maybe they need to be more competent.
Then the call on Lindgren, a critical point of the game, you don’t call even borderline stuff.
Something needs to be done and if Bettman is just going to be like “oh don’t abuse the officials” well maybe they need to be more competent.
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