Around the NHL: Part VII – Sweeps and Suspensions (Mod Warning Post #249)

[NCRanger]

The instigator rule gives goons like Tom Wilson and Matt Cooke free reign to throw cheap shots without retaliation.

It has also led to guys carrying their sticks higher.

 

[Edge]

Fighting draws attention because time literally stops while two guys are throwing punches at one another.

But I continue to believe that head shots and unnecessary attempts to injure are by far the greatest threat to players. And I further believe that threat is magnified by inadequate punishment from the league when it occurs.

There should never be an instance where we're talking about a guy's 6th or 7th suspension for deliberately circumventing the rules and trying to seriously injure a player. That's not a repeat offender, that's an ongoing threat.

 

[nyrage]

Fighting is a complicated subject. I don't think it's black or white. If you remove it, imo you'll see more stick swinging, slashing and other forms of violence. You'll have to banish those actions, too if you want to remove the violence.

Hockey is a physical violent sport and the refs don't always do a good job of controlling the game by nipping things in the bud with penalty calls.


I used to fight a lot as a player often defending teammates or as some kind of retaliation.
I u
I used to fight a lot as a player. I still like seeing it in the game when it seems like a natural response. I hate when it's a staged event by 2 goons. I also hate when hockey fans think of fighting like it's the highlight of a game.

Even if you increase the punishment from 5 minutes to 10 or more, it may stop players like Ovechkin from fighting, but it won't stop a lot of players.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Fighting is a complicated subject. I don't think it's black or white. If you remove it, imo you'll see more stick swinging, slashing and other forms of violence. You'll have to banish those actions, too if you want to remove the violence.

Hockey is a physical violent sport and the refs don't always do a good job of controlling the game by nipping things in the bud with penalty calls.


I used to fight a lot as a player often defending teammates or as some kind of retaliation.
I u
I used to fight a lot as a player. I still like seeing it in the game when it seems like a natural response. I hate when it's a staged event by 2 goons. I also hate when hockey fans think of fighting like it's the highlight of a game.

Even if you increase the punishment from 5 minutes to 10 or more, it may stop players like Ovechkin from fighting, but it won't stop a lot of players.

Then you go back to having designated fighters as the only players who will agree to go. Nobody wants to have a contributing player out for 10 minutes. That will go one of two directions.

1: teams bring back goons

or

2: fighting almost never happens and the dirty slashes and stick swinging happens anyway.

 

[DutchShamrock]

The REAL solution to fighting is showing that you can be a better team without it. IMO one of the reasons fighting is down so much is because teams aren't wasting roster spots on total goons anymore. They need NHL caliber players to contribute on the ice at all times.

Artificial regulation in the form of things like the instigator rule always have unintended consequences. Dirty hits have been, and will probably always be a part of the game. They have also always been penalized (though the definition of a "dirty hit" has changed with time). By outlawing fighting all together, there is no real life physical retribution for throwing a dirty hit, unless someone else just throws another dirty hit. IMO that is much more dangerous than two guys squaring up.

Bang on. The instigator rule was around forever and fighting continued. The league got serious about letting skill players thrive, called the other penalties, and incentivized having hockey players on the ice. Now we have less fights.

I would say the next step is to be consistent with calling penalties and crack down on suspensions. Kadri is wrong, but if he feels he isn't being protected and the refs won't call it fair (his perspective), I understand how he got emotional and reacted.

Call an obvious kneeing and its over. If you know a head shot will get the offender booted for 10 games, you probably don't feel obligated to stalk him the rest of the game or the next match up.

People are commending Chara for restraint, but he had a front row seat to Kadri getting suspended last year. He can trust that the league will address it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Bozo benched in favor of Callahan in an elimination game

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Bozo benched in favor of Callahan in an elimination game

Maybe Names really is the better player

I love this timeline

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This is hilarious

 

[Don Chytil]

This isn't figure skating or some boring non-contact "sport" like golf. If I want to watch a bunch of babies, I'll watch soccer. I want to watch real hockey where men take care of things on the ice.

If they don't like it, they can go to MLS. They can wipe their tears with the cash that gets thrown at them.

What we really need to do is stop holding guns to the players heads and stop forcing them to fight!!

Please. These guys get paid millions and know full well the risk they're taking. I risk my life everyday for far less compensation. They'll get no sympathy from me

Without getting too far off topic (because I do think the Kadri hit doesn't happen if the instigator rule is gone), they are well compensated. They know the choice they are making to play such a dangerous sport.

I knew I would get these responses about compensation, and let me just say that I really, really disagree with that angle and it's upsetting that people use their wealth as a way to dismiss this issue.

Why ignore brain damage and life altering injuries just because they happen to people richer than us? Psychologically it's either because:

1) we get some pleasure out of seeing people more fortunate than us in violent situations
or 2) we just generally enjoy watching violent things and use their wealth as a means to justify our attitude towards fighting

If it's option 1 (which I don't think is the case for most), I'd argue that anger towards the "rich" is not only unfortunate, but misplaced. Guys like Svechnikov and Boogaard make a fraction of what some Wall Street bankers make in a year.

I would expect for most that it's Option 2. That you enjoy watching violence as part of your entertainment and use their wealth as a way to ignore reflecting on the consequences that these players bring to themselves and their loved ones. It's normal to enjoy some violence as part of entertainment (I love Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad!) but these are real people and to use their wealth as a way to discredit their humanity is unacceptable, we can all do better.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I knew I would get these responses about compensation, and let me just say that I really, really disagree with that angle and it's upsetting that people use their wealth as a way to dismiss this issue.

Why ignore brain damage and life altering injuries just because they happen to people richer than us? Psychologically it's either because:

1) we get some pleasure out of seeing people more fortunate than us in violent situations
or 2) we just generally enjoy watching violent things and use their wealth as a means to justify our attitude towards fighting

If it's option 1 (which I don't think is the case for most), I'd argue that anger towards the "rich" is not only unfortunate, but misplaced. Guys like Svechnikov and Boogaard make a fraction of what some Wall Street bankers make in a year.

I would expect for most that it's Option 2. That you enjoy watching violence as part of your entertainment and use their wealth as a way to ignore reflecting on the consequences that these players bring to themselves and their loved ones. It's normal to enjoy some violence as part of entertainment (I love Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad!) but these are real people and to use their wealth as a way to discredit their humanity is unacceptable, we can all do better.

Svechnicov asked for the fight,so if anyone is to blame its himself.

 

[Don Chytil]

Svechnicov asked for the fight,so if anyone is to blame its himself.

The league can do a better job of policing fighting (automatic suspensions) and educating the players on the risks. But I don't expect to convince you.

My biggest problem with the Kadri cross check is that he didnt drop the gloves and fight debrusk like a man

 

[Ghost of jas]

Maybe Names really is the better player

I love this timeline

Nah, man, Stevie Y totally owned Grots’ lunch.

 

[Machinehead]

More fighting is not a solution that's going to help anyone.

Research shows that smaller traumas repeated over time are way more dangerous than one highly traumatic incident. A fistful of enforcers have died before the age of 50.

There needs to be harsher and more consistent discipline. If Tom Wilson gets 82 games the next time he injures someone, he might think twice about it. If he doesn't, he's out of the league.

If getting punched in the face was going to deter him, he wouldn't act the way he does to begin with.

 

[RangerBoy]

Perron is playing.

Can someone inform Tarasenko and Schwartz the playoffs have already started? Their team needs them.

 

[NYR94]

Bozo benched in favor of Callahan in an elimination game

That's rough. Also Killorn on the fourth line? I thought he's been one of the more noticeable TB players.

EDIT: Oh Cooper said Killorn is a game time decision.

 

[TheTakedown]

They often are not well educated on the risks they are taking. Their compensation and what you do for a living are completely irrelevant to the subject matter

There's enough information out there for players to make informed decisions. The excuse of "I didn't know, nobody told me" doesn't fly anymore, not with the mountains of information on the public free internet

 

[Zibanejbread]

... anyway - let's go STL tonight. Grabbing a 3-1 lead would be huge.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The only message that can be taken from last night is...

IF you don't know how to fight, don't go looking for one. Leave it to the guys who know how to defend themselves.

 

[Bob Richards]

More fighting is not a solution that's going to help anyone.

Research shows that smaller traumas repeated over time are way more dangerous than one highly traumatic incident. A fistful of enforcers have died before the age of 50.

There needs to be harsher and more consistent discipline. If Tom Wilson gets 82 games the next time he injures someone, he might think twice about it. If he doesn't, he's out of the league.

If getting punched in the face was going to deter him, he wouldn't act the way he does to begin with.

Reducing head injuries is going to be a challenge but cutting fighting has to be the single easiest measure any sport could take at the moment. The fighting volume has decreased so significantly over the last decade too.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

I just really hope that this doesn't affect Svech career going forward. Concussions are scary and the way he hit the ice yesterday did not look good

 

[Fugazy]

Let’s see a Blues victory tonight and get one step closer to pushing that pick closer to the top of the draft.

 

[Bob Richards]

X: These brain injuries are massively traumatic and we've seen the terrible end results for them. We should try do something, anything to alleviate this.

Y: Oh sure. Next thing you'll want is to get rid of goal scoring and have everyone make-out on the ice.

Very normal discourse. Very normal hyper angry angle to take.

 

[nyr2k2]

Man Tampa really is a pathetic group right now. I f***ing hope they get swept. I mean obviously I would like to see them win it, for our sake, but they clearly don't have the heart to do that. They remind me of the Caps, prior to last season.

 

[romba]

Reducing head injuries is going to be a challenge but cutting fighting has to be the single easiest measure any sport could take at the moment. The fighting volume has decreased so significantly over the last decade too.

It's already reduced so much it probably won't impact post career statistics much as this point. It would help with individual cases such as this one plus the bad PR as any non-hockey people (and this hockey fan too) will be horrified watching the video knowing he ended up out cold after for a few minutes. Hitting the back of the head on the ice while helmetless is scary AF.

 

[Edge]

Maybe Names really is the better player

I love this timeline

There's an argument to be made for knowing you have a 10-15 goal, 30-40 point steady third line player, than a 20 goal, 50 point sometimes top six player.