Biggest game for the Rangers...I mean Blues this year. For any illusions or delusions of trading into the top 10 this year the Winnipeg pick can not be 28-31.
Around the NHL: Part VII – Sweeps and Suspensions (Mod Warning Post #249)
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I just wanna see more hockey. I love coming home from work and having 4-5 games on the docket. Except for the Blues series (lost a bit of hope in the dallas series) I hope all the series go as far as possible.
LieutenantLackluster
welp
Miller is such a schlub. I am sure there are plenty of people who will still try to make the case that we could have returned more moving him separately, but I don't really care because I'm glad we moved him out and I don't miss him. I get the feeling that he would not have been great on this team during this transition period.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,140
- 9,452
He would definitely haven been a regular in the Quinn bin
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
At the time I was one of those that Broke the transaction up into two different trades. I was never a big fan of Names and felt straight up we lost out but as a whole that was a fair trade. If Tampa gets bounced I would have a hard time believing Tampa won that trade. I think you're right about him not being good on the team during this transition period and I'm sure Gorton felt the same way. 3 goals in 60 playoff games btw wow
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
What continues to baffle me about Miller is that the player we would describe at the NHL doesn't really resemble the prospect we would've described prior to the NHL.
Somewhere along the line, the areas we would've considered strengths became mysteries, and the areas we would've considered mysteries became his meat and potatoes.
Could it be perhaps that our Front Office actually has a better idea of what they have with these guys than we do!?!?
Impossible!
On the real, that low percentage slap shot from 40 feet out with the empty net is one of the dumbest plays I've ever witnessed. We're going to come out of that trade looking like massive winners, no disrespect to Mac.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Gorton wants a skilled team first but a hard ass team close second.
I'm obviously not in the room. Like most fans, I'm forced to go on gut. My vibe is that Miller is not that.
In fact, that's my vibe with that whole team.
And I'm the last person to favor toughness or anything like that, but you can't be afraid of competition.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think a lot of the comments would've been very similar to the year he spent with Torts.
But overall I get the sense that Quinn and a 26 year old Miller wouldn't have produced magic. Maybe a 21 year old Miller, but I have a feeling there would've been "philosophical differences."
Zibanejbread
Rebuilding.
LieutenantLackluster
welp
And the point that is trying to be made is that refs should do a better job of calling that stuff
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,722
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Nobody wants to sit through a 6 hour hockey game.
As an 'outsider' to hockey, it seems to me the issues with the league relating to dirty hits and fighting come down to:
- players not caring about hitting each other high or dangerously
- the league not caring
- it's very hard to suspend or meaningfully fine players (NHLPA influence?) and there's no rules, or even useful and clear guidelines on when suspensions should apply
- there's no penalty less than 2 mins, so a lot gets let go because it doesn't 'deserve' to put a team 1 man down
I grew up playing Aussie Rules and Rugby, two sports that I believe have a similar level of physicality, toughness and intensity to hockey (which I've also played, but I dind't grow up with it), yet neither sport has anywhere near the levels of headshots/high contact that you see in hockey, and fighting is almost non-existent. Most 'brawls' are a lot of pushing and shoving, but punches are rarely thrown and almost all contact is below the shoulders. When I watch a hockey game it astounds me that immediately after a whistle gloves and sticks get right into faces, is it because of the armour being worn? In other codes hitting someone in the head/face is seen as 'weak'.
Both other sports penalize incidental high contact with possession and territory advantage to the other team which can't really be done in hockey (and offensive zone faceoff wouldn't suffice), but there needs to be some kind of disincentive to stop players from getting their hands and sticks up all the time. 1 min penalties seem like they wouldn't work (and you'd have a penalty parade until players adjusted), but there needs to be something that causes players to stop and think.
On suspensions; and accidental (arrived at the contest slightly late and hit another player high while going for the ball) head high contact will likely see an AFL (Aussie Rules) player suspended for a game or two (which increases with each incident they're involved in), and as they only play 22 games a season, most players try and avoid this. 1 or 2 games in an 82 game season isn't a deterrent (the 2 games mentioned above would be a 7 game NHL suspension based on % of season), especially when the PA seems to argue almost every decision. Every AFL game is reviewed for incidents and the players can be 'reported' during this review and then face suspensions based on published guidelines that are linked to the rules (the system isn't perfect, but it's not bad). I know that there's a lot more hockey games in a tighter timeframe, but the NHL also has a lot more resources to check the games, identify high/illegal hits and suspend players.
If you could get buy-in from both the league and PA it's something you could stamp out pretty quickly with the right enforcement and deterrent, with the only real pushback coming from past players of a certain type and the "go watch figure skating crowd", I'm just not really sure that either party will care enough until a few in-ther-prime stars actually have to quite due to head injuries.
- players not caring about hitting each other high or dangerously
- the league not caring
- it's very hard to suspend or meaningfully fine players (NHLPA influence?) and there's no rules, or even useful and clear guidelines on when suspensions should apply
- there's no penalty less than 2 mins, so a lot gets let go because it doesn't 'deserve' to put a team 1 man down
I grew up playing Aussie Rules and Rugby, two sports that I believe have a similar level of physicality, toughness and intensity to hockey (which I've also played, but I dind't grow up with it), yet neither sport has anywhere near the levels of headshots/high contact that you see in hockey, and fighting is almost non-existent. Most 'brawls' are a lot of pushing and shoving, but punches are rarely thrown and almost all contact is below the shoulders. When I watch a hockey game it astounds me that immediately after a whistle gloves and sticks get right into faces, is it because of the armour being worn? In other codes hitting someone in the head/face is seen as 'weak'.
Both other sports penalize incidental high contact with possession and territory advantage to the other team which can't really be done in hockey (and offensive zone faceoff wouldn't suffice), but there needs to be some kind of disincentive to stop players from getting their hands and sticks up all the time. 1 min penalties seem like they wouldn't work (and you'd have a penalty parade until players adjusted), but there needs to be something that causes players to stop and think.
On suspensions; and accidental (arrived at the contest slightly late and hit another player high while going for the ball) head high contact will likely see an AFL (Aussie Rules) player suspended for a game or two (which increases with each incident they're involved in), and as they only play 22 games a season, most players try and avoid this. 1 or 2 games in an 82 game season isn't a deterrent (the 2 games mentioned above would be a 7 game NHL suspension based on % of season), especially when the PA seems to argue almost every decision. Every AFL game is reviewed for incidents and the players can be 'reported' during this review and then face suspensions based on published guidelines that are linked to the rules (the system isn't perfect, but it's not bad). I know that there's a lot more hockey games in a tighter timeframe, but the NHL also has a lot more resources to check the games, identify high/illegal hits and suspend players.
If you could get buy-in from both the league and PA it's something you could stamp out pretty quickly with the right enforcement and deterrent, with the only real pushback coming from past players of a certain type and the "go watch figure skating crowd", I'm just not really sure that either party will care enough until a few in-ther-prime stars actually have to quite due to head injuries.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,722
- 19,431
You can't compare the two sports because of the obvious speed difference. There really isnt any sport like hockey in that regard. If people wanna take hitting right out of hockey that's one thing but bad hits happen a lot of times due to the speed of the game and that creates tension in the game.
LieutenantLackluster
welp
Yes I have to agree here, I'm starting to see that maybe there's no place in this game for a certain type of fan. It's upsetting, really.
The league likes to promote their Hockey is for Everyone™ thing but it seems like a lot of the fans aren't on the same page.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
- 52,509
- 75,720
Picture Miller instead of Pastrnak.
Person at counter: Hey J.T., more Funyuns?
Miller: Yeah. But make it three cases. I only have two minutes.
But you don't have to go 100% all the time, and we're talking highly tuned athletes (the best of the best); if they can't hit safely at game speed, doesn't that mean the game is set up wrong? Accidents happen in sport (and life), especially when it comes down to split second timing, so i agree that players will still get hit high; but you can build a culture where everyone understands that even though it was an 'accident' the onus is on the hitter to be responsible and as safe as practicable. Players have been suspended for accidental high contact and for the most part they understand the why, don't get a reputation for being a 'cheap' player and just get on with the game, the NHL on the other hand puts almost all the onus on the player being hit and turns a blind eye unless it's really dangerous/looks per-meditated.
Would the game of hockey (at the NHL) level, really be totally ruined if players went in for body contact being aware that they were responsible for hitting correctly?
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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Anyone who has played the game at even a junior level would know that that is unrealistic. The game is faster than ever, players are now turning at the last minute and putting themselves in dangerous spots trying to get penalty calls. It's a nice thought but it will never happen unless they find a way to slow the game down.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,722
- 19,431
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Heed this warning - going political is going to earn you an automatic infraction and thread ban. I don't care what the context is or why you felt the need to go that route. The other mods and I are sick of having to clean up threads where it becomes a spam fest of "alt-right" or "snowflake culture" insults.
There are few things in this world that remain untouched by political discussion and it will be a cold day in hell before it is acceptable on this board. Grow up and get over yourselves.
There are few things in this world that remain untouched by political discussion and it will be a cold day in hell before it is acceptable on this board. Grow up and get over yourselves.
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Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,722
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Well I think the hockey is for everyone thing doesnt really have much to do with this conversation. All races, genders, and ethnicities are encouraged to play under the hockey is for everyone initiative, but that doesnt mean the game will change to suit everyone's personal opinions of aspects of the game itself. I dont especially like baseball and I'd prefer it was only 5 innings but it doesnt mean I'm not perfectly welcome to play or watch it. I get where you are coming from, but I think a lot of people want to paint hockey with an unfair stroke because of isolated incidents, we have roughly 2500 regular season games plus what we have played in playoffs and there have been 34 suspensions. It's not that bad, but those 34 incidents get the most air time. Basically just over 1% of the games have a suspension in them.
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