Around the NHL - Episode XLV III - BEAST MODE ANDY

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Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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I guess that's a no on the putting words in my mouth, eh?

I never said I'm right about anything. I literally said that coaches and GMs know things that lay people do not. At least I f***ing hope they do. I merely pointed out that trying to prove you are right using a coach's actions is not very logical. Honestly, given how often coaches perform badly I don't even think it should be questioned. But here we are.

So once again you are arguing against a point that was never made. To quote someone (I forget who): "You do you."

I mean I agree with much of this. Personally I’m not sure how much the coach is right because much of what is done takes time to filter through to a player’s game, and I am not party to any information on which decisions are made. Neither is anyone else in here.

In terms of vet players playing at the beginning of the year, it seems popular to argue that had the kids played from the start that we would have seen the same time of games we play today, from the start. The idea being that the coaches held us back.

This completely ignores any kind of important development process at all. Playing those guys leading up to the deadline and then trading them also seems to indicate that perhaps showcasing was a directive from the GM? Who knows. My perspective tends to be more along the lines that since these guys are professionals there is likely a reason for playing them beyond them being dumb (often said on here) or simply thinking that they are better and thus holding the kids back. All indications from the owner to the coaching staff in Belleville has been that developing our teeming ranks of high level prospects is the priority, so I personally take that to be the case in absence of really any evidence to the contrary.

Coaches aren’t infallible, and neither are aerospace engineers, as we often see when aircraft is faulty. Speculating can be fun, but it goes a lot further in here to where people insult the coaches for being dumb/wrong etc, with little to no supporting evidence (not saying that is you). In my opinion those takes deserve to be challenged aggressively.
 
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OD99

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Oct 13, 2012
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I kinda wish that with our post-deadline D we got one more crack at the Oilers. Our D is more mobile now; a guy like Mete seems like a better matchup with McD than say Coburn or Gudbranson.

Not that there is a good matchup with that guy. We'd likely still get lit up but I'd be interested to see how it went.

I would like one more crack at the Oilers to ensure McDavid gets to 100 points this year. What an amazing feat and I really hope he lights up a few more teams and gets there easy - I don't want there to be any questions that maybe AM should get it (although his goal numbers are eye popping as well)
 

DaveMatthew

Bring in Peter
Apr 13, 2005
14,507
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I mean I agree with much of this. Personally I’m not sure how much the coach is right because much of what is done takes time to filter through to a player’s game, and I am not party to any information on which decisions are made. Neither is anyone else in here.

In terms of vet players playing at the beginning of the year, it seems popular to argue that had the kids played from the start that we would have seen the same time of games we play today, from the start. The idea being that the coaches held us back.

This completely ignores any kind of important development process at all. Playing those guys leading up to the deadline and then trading them also seems to indicate that perhaps showcasing was a directive from the GM? Who knows. My perspective tends to be more along the lines that since these guys are professionals there is likely a reason for playing them beyond them being dumb (often said on here) or simply thinking that they are better and thus holding the kids back. All indications from the owner to the coaching staff in Belleville has been that developing our teeming ranks of high level prospects is the priority, so I personally take that to be the case in absence of really any evidence to the contrary.

Coaches aren’t infallible, and neither are aerospace engineers, as we often see when aircraft is faulty. Speculating can be fun, but it goes a lot further in here to where people insult the coaches for being dumb/wrong etc, with little to no supporting evidence (not saying that is you). In my opinion those takes deserve to be challenged aggressively.

Coaches and GMs are wrong all the time.

Look at Calgary and Sam Bennett. The Flames slotted him in as a 3rd line “energy” player, and never gave him a real shot in an offensive role. They had better options, he needed to show more, etc etc. Lots of their fans complained about it for years, without “supporting evidence.”

Lo and behold, he gets traded to Florida, Quenneville puts him on the 1st line, and he has 10 points in 7 games since the deadline.

Calgary had their reasons for playing Bennett in the roles they played him, I’m sure. They were dumb, though.
 

Ice-Tray

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Coaches and GMs are wrong all the time.

Look at Calgary and Sam Bennett. The Flames slotted him in as a 3rd line “energy” player, and never gave him a real shot in an offensive role. They had better options, he needed to show more, etc etc. Lots of their fans complained about it for years, without “supporting evidence.”

Lo and behold, he gets traded to Florida, Quenneville puts him on the 1st line, and he has 10 points in 7 games since the deadline.

Calgary had their reasons for playing Bennett in the roles they played him, I’m sure. They were dumb, though.

Everybody is wrong sometimes, especially in situations with endless variables.

So you do the best you can based on the accumulated experience of the professionals around you.

Consider the pandemic response and how there is a lot of right and wrong to go around a whole lot of brilliant people.

Yes, coaches and GM’s get it wrong, but they tend to get it right a whole heck of a lot more than you to I would, and that’s likely due to skill at their jobs, and access to a whole lot more information than you or I are party to.

It’s not complicated. These guys aren’t infallible, and I don’t follow along blindly, but I do tend to defer to patience and adopt a wait-and-see attitude when I don’t have squat in terms of information to go on to come out and blatantly contracdict them.

It’s not for everyone, but that’s my approach to hockey, and it has served me well.
 

IlTerrifico

Registered User
Oct 24, 2016
615
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Thats fair,I probably should have said the top teams out of our division look much deeper and stronger than anything in ours

That is a better analysis. The Canadian teams had 17 more losses than wins last year in almost 500 total games, most close to as many wins as losses, and Ottawa was -21. I would say the offseason saw about as much talent join the division as leave it. The very elite teams are still significantly out of reach for the Sens, who have risen to an average team over the last 30 games.
 
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Adele Dazeem

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Oct 20, 2015
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Everybody is wrong sometimes, especially in situations with endless variables.

So you do the best you can based on the accumulated experience of the professionals around you.

Consider the pandemic response and how there is a lot of right and wrong to go around a whole lot of brilliant people.

Yes, coaches and GM’s get it wrong, but they tend to get it right a whole heck of a lot more than you to I would, and that’s likely due to skill at their jobs, and access to a whole lot more information than you or I are party to.

It’s not complicated. These guys aren’t infallible, and I don’t follow along blindly, but I do tend to defer to patience and adopt a wait-and-see attitude when I don’t have squat in terms of information to go on to come out and blatantly contracdict them.

It’s not for everyone, but that’s my approach to hockey, and it has served me well.

Most people were angry because DJ and co. were doing exactly what Einstein said the definition of insanity is; or stupidity in this case. The difference between a good coach and a bad one is simple. One can adjust and grow; whereas the other one (bad one) is stuck in his/her way and cannot overcome the fact that they might be wrong and that they need to do some changes.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,471
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Victoria
Most people were angry because DJ and co. were doing exactly what Einstein said the definition of insanity is; or stupidity in this case. The difference between a good coach and a bad one is simple. One can adjust and grow; whereas the other one (bad one) is stuck in his/her way and cannot overcome the fact that they might be wrong and that they need to do some changes.

Einstein never said that, and I’m not sure that the rest of the post really applies.

Either the coaching staff stuck to their plan developing the rookies slowly and playing them more as they beat out the vet placeholders, or they were simply stupid until they realized that they were stupid and wrong, and adapted.

Either way you look at it they seem to fall into your above described category of ‘good coach’.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
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“Every time before I went to sleep, I was so scared that I won’t wake up anymore,” Rossi said. “Every night, before sleep, I was really sad and always crying because I was scared of that. I told my parents, ‘Could you sleep right next to my bed and be here ‘til I fall asleep?’ And every day I woke up in the morning, I was so glad that I woke up. It was really hard.”

Remember this a 19 year old kid.

I hope he becomes a superstar. Has faced adversity all his life. Hoping for you to be the best of the best, Marco.
 

Crosside

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Aug 1, 2018
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Team of Hartley win the KHL championship today in 6 games. Like this guys, imagine him our coach and Roy gm. All the talk we can have on the french media.
 

bicboi64

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Aug 13, 2020
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Team of Hartley win the KHL championship today in 6 games. Like this guys, imagine him our coach and Roy gm. All the talk we can have on the french media.

When i found out Hartley's first language was French, I was shocked. Dude has a name that doesn't exactly scream francophone. Was a fun learning moment hearing him explain his heritage
 

L'Aveuglette

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Jan 8, 2007
47,937
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Montreal
When i found out Hartley's first language was French, I was shocked. Dude has a name that doesn't exactly scream francophone. Was a fun learning moment hearing him explain his heritage

I dunno man the French pronunciation of "Bob" he insisted on really should have given away his heritage.
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
16,074
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I would like one more crack at the Oilers to ensure McDavid gets to 100 points this year. What an amazing feat and I really hope he lights up a few more teams and gets there easy - I don't want there to be any questions that maybe AM should get it (although his goal numbers are eye popping as well)
Luckily he has a game left against Winnipeg. He has lit them up for 7G 12A in 8 games.
 

foggyvisor

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Jun 28, 2018
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Drouin on LTIR for Personal Reasons.

Many of us wanted Dorion to get him from the Lightning. Looks like Dorion was right and we were wrong. Start owning up.
 
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DueDiligence

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Nov 16, 2013
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Looking around the North division I would say only the Leafs and Oilers are better than the Sens right now. As bad as it was for the Sens in the first 15 games or so the fact they are playing so well lead by a bunch of young guys is a great sign for the future.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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Looking around the North division I would say only the Leafs and Oilers are better than the Sens right now. As bad as it was for the Sens in the first 15 games or so the fact they are playing so well lead by a bunch of young guys is a great sign for the future.

It's such a hard year to really judge where a team is at. MTL came out of the gate playing amazing and have crash and burned since, Vancouver seems to have hit a wall after Covid ran amock in the room, the Jets just played 6 games against the top 2 teams in the division gettin only 2 out of 12 possible pts but were on a 105 pts pace prior to that,

A team that hits a rut at the wrong time can really get beat up in this season's format, between a compressed schedule making it harder to work out issues in practice and playing a strong of games against the same team.

Next year, assuming the format goes back to normal, will be really interesting. I think Cgy and Vancouver could bounce back, Ottawa should be more competitive out of the gate so a playoff spot is certainly possible, but our division will have some strong teams with Florida, Boston, Tbay, Toronto, thankfully Buffalo and Detroit still look bad.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,925
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Garbage take. You have no idea what he's got on his plate. He's a human being.

Not to mention the pressure of playing in Montreal and having high expectations placed on you. This is a very tough market, that's why many players from the Quebec province just didn't want to play in Montreal before, the team of their youth.

Drouin had an injury affecting his shot this season, make him a "passer only" (much like Bobby Ryan with all his hand injuries). He has taken a LOT of heat this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he has mental issues as a result. If he has other personnal issues on top of it... forget it.

I once heard a Daniel Briere interview where he was saying that many NHL players are using a psychotherapist. Sure they make a lot of money but every game they're putting their body at risk and have a lot of work to do during the year. It's not just practice and games lol. There's also traveling, training, nutrition, signing memorabilia, answering the medias, dealing with the pressure, etc.

I'd still do it and most would of course, but if you think "it's a walk in the park", you're just not living in reality.
 
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BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
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Not to mention the pressure of playing in Montreal and having high expectations placed on you. This is a very tough market, that's why many players from the Quebec province just didn't want to play in Montreal before, the team of their youth.

Drouin had an injury affecting his shot this season, make him a "passer only" (much like Bobby Ryan with all his hand injuries). He has taken a LOT of heat this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he has mental issues as a result. If he has other personnal issues on top of it... forget it.

I once heard a Daniel Briere interview where he was saying that many NHL players are using a psychotherapist. Sure they make a lot of money but every game they're putting their body at risk and have a lot of work to do during the year. It's not just practice and games lol. There's also traveling, training, nutrition, signing memorabilia, answering the medias, dealing with the pressure, etc.

I'd still do it and most would of course, but if you think "it's a walk in the park", you're just not living in reality.
He's had well known issues all the way back to Halifax
 
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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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Not to mention the pressure of playing in Montreal and having high expectations placed on you. This is a very tough market, that's why many players from the Quebec province just didn't want to play in Montreal before, the team of their youth.

Drouin had an injury affecting his shot this season, make him a "passer only" (much like Bobby Ryan with all his hand injuries). He has taken a LOT of heat this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he has mental issues as a result. If he has other personnal issues on top of it... forget it.

I once heard a Daniel Briere interview where he was saying that many NHL players are using a psychotherapist. Sure they make a lot of money but every game they're putting their body at risk and have a lot of work to do during the year. It's not just practice and games lol. There's also traveling, training, nutrition, signing memorabilia, answering the medias, dealing with the pressure, etc.

I'd still do it and most would of course, but if you think "it's a walk in the park", you're just not living in reality.

That's why I said at the time a trade to Montreal was the worst thing for him. That pressure cooker isn't for most players - especially francophone kids expected to be a savior for Les Glorieux.
 
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