Around the NHL 2024-2025

[wiscrev]

Whichever goalie went to Colorado and played decently was going to get overpaid. They were desperate.

Benny's 6M lookin' good.

 

[Xerloris]

Avs sign Blackwood to a 5 year deal

Just f***in hilarious

Benny's 6M lookin' good.

It always has

 

[Majorityof1]

Benny's 6M lookin' good.

How so? The guy with better stats who everyone is saying got overpaid is still making less than Binnington.

Here are their stats this year. Blackwood is better in all of them, even his cheaper contract extension (stats via Moneypuck or NHL,com):

Goals Saved Above Expected per 60: Blackwood (.273) > Binnington (.216)
GAA Better than expected: Blackwood ((.27) > Binnington (.22)
Wins Above Replacement: Blackwood (.99) > Binnington (.91)
Save Percentage - Blackwood (.914) > Binnington (.898)
GAA - Blackwood (2.83) < Binnington (2.88)
Point Capture percentage - Blackwood (50%) > Binnington (42%)
Salary - Blackwood ($5.25) < Binnington ($6M).

If people are Loling that Blackwood who does not deserve that contract based on his play is getting paid $5.25M, we should be crying that Binnington is getting paid 750k more with clearly worse performance across ay metric.

And most of those games for Blackwood were on the Sharks. So you can't say Binnington played for a worse team. I can't breakout his time with the Sharks on the advanced metrics, by Blackwood had a clearly better GAA and Save percentage raw while with the Sharks than Binnington does with us. His point capture with the shartks was only one this of a percent less than Binnoington with a much better team (42% vs 41.6667%).

How do we feel good about Binnington's AAV now?

 

[ArenaRat]

How so? The guy with better stats who everyone is saying got overpaid is still making less than Binnington.

Here are their stats this year. Blackwood is better in all of them, even his cheaper contract extension (stats via Moneypuck or NHL,com):

Goals Saved Above Expected per 60: Blackwood (.273) > Binnington (.216)
GAA Better than expected: Blackwood ((.27) > Binnington (.22)
Wins Above Replacement: Blackwood (.99) > Binnington (.91)
Save Percentage - Blackwood (.914) > Binnington (.898)
GAA - Blackwood (2.83) < Binnington (2.88)
Point Capture percentage - Blackwood (50%) > Binnington (42%)
Salary - Blackwood ($5.25) < Binnington ($6M).

If people are Loling that Blackwood who does not deserve that contract based on his play is getting paid $5.25M, we should be crying that Binnington is getting paid 750k more with clearly worse performance across ay metric.

And most of those games for Blackwood were on the Sharks. So you can't say Binnington played for a worse team. I can't breakout his time with the Sharks on the advanced metrics, by Blackwood had a clearly better GAA and Save percentage raw while with the Sharks than Binnington does with us. His point capture with the shartks was only one this of a percent less than Binnoington with a much better team (42% vs 41.6667%).

How do we feel good about Binnington's AAV now?

I agree that disparaging the Blackwood deal is not warranted. He's respected as a talent and now has the Avs in front of him, so the deal could look quite cheap before long. And I agree it's already a comparatively better deal than Binner's. But I'm also fine with what we're paying Binner.

 

[bleedblue1223]

How so? The guy with better stats who everyone is saying got overpaid is still making less than Binnington.

Here are their stats this year. Blackwood is better in all of them, even his cheaper contract extension (stats via Moneypuck or NHL,com):

Goals Saved Above Expected per 60: Blackwood (.273) > Binnington (.216)
GAA Better than expected: Blackwood ((.27) > Binnington (.22)
Wins Above Replacement: Blackwood (.99) > Binnington (.91)
Save Percentage - Blackwood (.914) > Binnington (.898)
GAA - Blackwood (2.83) < Binnington (2.88)
Point Capture percentage - Blackwood (50%) > Binnington (42%)
Salary - Blackwood ($5.25) < Binnington ($6M).

If people are Loling that Blackwood who does not deserve that contract based on his play is getting paid $5.25M, we should be crying that Binnington is getting paid 750k more with clearly worse performance across ay metric.

And most of those games for Blackwood were on the Sharks. So you can't say Binnington played for a worse team. I can't breakout his time with the Sharks on the advanced metrics, by Blackwood had a clearly better GAA and Save percentage raw while with the Sharks than Binnington does with us. His point capture with the shartks was only one this of a percent less than Binnoington with a much better team (42% vs 41.6667%).

How do we feel good about Binnington's AAV now?

In Blackwood's previous 3 seasons, he had a negative GSAA in every year. No doubt has Binnington been inconsistent in his career, but in my view Blackwood has never experienced the high that Binnington has performed at and his worst seasons in Jersey were also worse than Binnington's worst.

 

[542365]

Blackwood deal is awful and I love it.

 

[Majorityof1]

In Blackwood's previous 3 seasons, he had a negative GSAA in every year. No doubt has Binnington been inconsistent in his career, but in my view Blackwood has never experienced the high that Binnington has performed at and his worst seasons in Jersey were also worse than Binnington's worst.

Not according to money puck. He had +2.4 last year. So he was right at the line.

That's neither here nor there though. I agree Avs were premature in giving him that contract based on his previous seasons. That is a high contract given his track record. My point goes back to the thread about who has lived up to their AAV this season, and most people said Binnington had. Now people are laughing at Blackwood who is having a better season and a cheaper AAV. Binnington is playing bad this year. He is very inconsisgent. Over those same 3 years he had a great season, a season right at replacement level and a horriffic season at a -9+ GSAA. That is not worth $6M either.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not according to money puck. He had +2.4 last year. So he was right at the line.

That's neither here nor there though. I agree Avs were premature in giving him that contract based on his previous seasons. That is a high contract given his track record. My point goes back to the thread about who has lived up to their AAV this season, and most people said Binnington had. Now people are laughing at Blackwood who is having a better season and a cheaper AAV. Binnington is playing bad this year. He is very inconsisgent. Over those same 3 years he had a great season, a season right at replacement level and a horriffic season at a -9+ GSAA. That is not worth $6M either.

Weird, Hockey Reference and Natural Stat Trick have him at -6.3.

 

[wiscrev]

How so? The guy with better stats who everyone is saying got overpaid is still making less than Binnington.

Here are their stats this year. Blackwood is better in all of them, even his cheaper contract extension (stats via Moneypuck or NHL,com):

Goals Saved Above Expected per 60: Blackwood (.273) > Binnington (.216)
GAA Better than expected: Blackwood ((.27) > Binnington (.22)
Wins Above Replacement: Blackwood (.99) > Binnington (.91)
Save Percentage - Blackwood (.914) > Binnington (.898)
GAA - Blackwood (2.83) < Binnington (2.88)
Point Capture percentage - Blackwood (50%) > Binnington (42%)
Salary - Blackwood ($5.25) < Binnington ($6M).

If people are Loling that Blackwood who does not deserve that contract based on his play is getting paid $5.25M, we should be crying that Binnington is getting paid 750k more with clearly worse performance across ay metric.

And most of those games for Blackwood were on the Sharks. So you can't say Binnington played for a worse team. I can't breakout his time with the Sharks on the advanced metrics, by Blackwood had a clearly better GAA and Save percentage raw while with the Sharks than Binnington does with us. His point capture with the shartks was only one this of a percent less than Binnoington with a much better team (42% vs 41.6667%).

How do we feel good about Binnington's AAV now?

So, you'd rather have Blackwood than Binny? Ridiculous. Blackwood hasn't proved anything.

 

[Majorityof1]

So, you'd rather have Blackwood than Binny? Ridiculous. Blackwood hasn't proved anything.

I'd rather have neither. I said Blackwood contract is bad, But I asked how it makes us feel better about Binnington's bad deal. Binnington's contract is shorter, so I guess I'd rather have him. But he is not living up to it at all. Another goalie playing better this year than he does signing a cheaper deal does not make me look more fondly on the Binnington contract.

 

[Drubilly]

Fire Armstrong!

 

[PJJJP]

Lololol Oettinger just gave up the wrap around goal. He saw Hofer moving all over the place and was like hold my beer

 

[Reality Czech]

I'd rather have neither. I said Blackwood contract is bad, But I asked how it makes us feel better about Binnington's bad deal. Binnington's contract is shorter, so I guess I'd rather have him. But he is not living up to it at all. Another goalie playing better this year than he does signing a cheaper deal does not make me look more fondly on the Binnington contract.

Binnington has been well worth his deal. Goalie stats are misleading and anyone solely relying on numbers to judge goalies is misguided. Just ask Wayne Gretzky. Binner steps up when it counts and is a better goalie than Blackwood, who's spent the majority of his career as a backup or tandem goalie. Maybe he'll work out for the Avs but he's far from a sure thing.

 

[StlBigFly]

I think blues fans should feel alright with binnington’s term and aav. Since he’s been on the depth chart we have had very stable goaltending. A whole lot of teams cannot say that. It’s worth 6 mil alone imo. Blackwood can’t say that as his injury history exceeds a dozen line entries.

I’m not enjoying Binner’s pourousness, but I think the blues have had as many issues with defensive coverage as they have with goaltending.

If you think about it, since bouwemeister had to retire early we’ve gone though like 2 teams worth of left handed defensemen and I can’t remember a time they weren’t filling up the injured list. It’s hard to be stable when that happens. Between multiple, sometimes very long term injuries to Krug, Perunovich, scandella, now Leddy, then shipping mikkola off to see nyr also pass on him and losing Dunn to expansion…it’s a looot of defenseman changing. We were calling up 7th rounders way early just to have coverage at times. A lot of times 3 injuries happened to lhd at the same time. Really hard on goaltending no matter what the names or team if this is occurring.

I don’t think this gives binner a free pass but these are some strong headwinds.

 

[Reality Czech]

I think blues fans should feel alright with binnington’s term and aav. Since he’s been on the depth chart we have had very stable goaltending. A whole lot of teams cannot say that. It’s worth 6 mil alone imo. Blackwood can’t say that as his injury history exceeds a dozen line entries.

I’m not enjoying Binner’s pourousness, but I think the blues have had as many issues with defensive coverage as they have with goaltending.

If you think about it, since bouwemeister had to retire early we’ve gone though like 2 teams worth of left handed defensemen. It’s hard to be stable when that happens. Between multiple, sometimes very long term injuries to Krug, Perunovich, scandella, now Leddy, then shipping mikkola off to see nyr also pass on him and losing Dunn to expansion…it’s a looot of defenseman changing. We were calling up 7th rounders way early just to have coverage at times. A lot of times 3 injuries happened to lhd at the same time. Really hard on goaltending no matter what the names or team if this is occurring.

I don’t think this gives binner a free pass but these are some strong headwinds.

There isn't a goalie in the league that could have overcome our defensive deficiencies the last few years. We were bleeding high danger chances regularly and not giving him a chance in many games.

And it's not just the D core, it's overall team defense. A good defensive team needs all 5 guys on the ice doing their jobs. If a forward loses his man in the D zone, it's an automatic goal in many cases.

 

[Majorityof1]

There isn't a goalie in the league that could have overcome our defensive deficiencies the last few years. We were bleeding high danger chances regularly and not giving him a chance in many games.

And it's not just the D core, it's overall team defense. A good defensive team needs all 5 guys on the ice doing their jobs. If a forward loses his man in the D zone, it's an automatic goal in many cases.

That is what the advanced stats try to capture, and why I included them. I absolutely agree that his GAA and save percentage are impacted by the quality of the defense. GSAA and wins above replacement try to account for that. I can see an argument that in other years they didn't capture the high amount of uncontested cross crease passes he faced. That is not really the case this year. This year, he is getting beat clean from distance as Brian39 provided the stats to show in another thread. He is getting outplayed by his backup again who plays in front of the same defense and is getting decently tough matchups (again credit to Brian39 for that analysis),

I don't want people to want to trade Binnington or start a fire Army chant. But to not admit he is not playing this season like a a top 10 goalie in the league, which is how he is paid? That is just ignoring reality. If we want to be competitive with this team, he needs to be better.

 

[Xerloris]

That is what the advanced stats try to capture, and why I included them. I absolutely agree that his GAA and save percentage are impacted by the quality of the defense. GSAA and wins above replacement try to account for that. I can see an argument that in other years they didn't capture the high amount of uncontested cross crease passes he faced. That is not really the case this year. This year, he is getting beat clean from distance as Brian39 provided the stats to show in another thread. He is getting outplayed by his backup again who plays in front of the same defense and is getting decently tough matchups (again credit to Brian39 for that analysis),

I don't want people to want to trade Binnington or start a fire Army chant. But to not admit he is not playing this season like a a top 10 goalie in the league, which is how he is paid? That is just ignoring reality. If we want to be competitive with this team, he needs to be better.

That's another thing. We ride Binnington to hard, we're not in a playoff spot and are we really pushing to get there? I don't think we are so why ride him so hard? He could easily have about 6 less starts and the goalies would be rather close in games played. I would imagine at that point the stats would look more even.

 

[PJJJP]

What is Trotz doing?

 

[Quaz]

What is Trotz doing?

Maybe the Blues should have grabbed Parssinen.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Trotz realizes that he can't turn off his Xbox and restart his franchise mode right?

 

[PocketNines]

Vancouver led Seattle on home ice 4-1 with under 5 minutes remaining and lost today in OT.

Schwartz and Dunn each scoring twice in the 4 goal comeback

 

[Brian39]

There isn't a goalie in the league that could have overcome our defensive deficiencies the last few years. We were bleeding high danger chances regularly and not giving him a chance in many games.

And it's not just the D core, it's overall team defense. A good defensive team needs all 5 guys on the ice doing their jobs. If a forward loses his man in the D zone, it's an automatic goal in many cases.

The last time Binner led our team in SV% was the 2020/21 COVID season during Husso's rookie year.

Since the start of the 2021/22 season Binner has a .902 SV% through 182 games played. Blues goalies not named Jordan Binnington have a .912 SV% through 118 games played during that same time frame. That's a 10 point SV% gap over (just shy of) a 3.5 year sample. I'm going to type that out again because it is something I don't think many would have expected.

Over the team's last 284 games, Binner's SV% is .902 while all other Blues goalies have a combined .912 SV%. The other Blues goalies in that stretch were Husso, Greiss, Lindgren, Gillies, and Hofer.

Binner had his first disappointing regular season in 2021/22, but Ville Husso did in fact overcome our defensive deficiencies that season. He put up a .919 SV% (compared to Binner's .901), took the net from Binner for the 2nd half of the season, had a +15 GSAA, and got Vezina votes. Greiss had a better SV% (.896) than Binner (.894) in 2022/23. Hofer was noticeably better at .905, but the sample was only 6 games. We're very early into Hofer's career, but he had a (very, very slightly) higher SV% than Binner last season and is currently performing pretty damn well behind the same D that Binner is currently struggling behind. It's only a 43 game sample that he's been here full-time (and 6 games the year before), but he is very much overcoming the defensive deficiencies.

I don't think that Binner's stats are perfectly reflective of his performance, but we can't use the 'no one could succeed behind this team' argument when he has had multiple teammates find success. There are consistency issues that can't just be hand-waved away by citing the poor team defense.

Edit: I totally agree with @Xerloris point about the workload. That absolutely has an impact on this and I very much believe that we need to start playing Hofer much more frequently. But I do not believe that it is all workload.

 

[MissouriMook]

My biggest concern about Binnington at the moment is his reaction time. He’s on the small side compared to his peers, so he is more reliant on positioning and reaction time to succeed. Positioning has been an issue at times in the last couple of years, but there have been more instances recently that I have seen where he is simply late to react. Positioning can deteriorate at times and be improved with coaching and reps, but I am concerned that his reaction time issues might stem from simply being on the wrong side of 30, and I doubt that this is something he can improve if Father Time is hitting him here early.

 

[PocketNines]

Jordan Binnington is winning this team points it would not have gotten without him far more than he is costing them points with an occasional off game.

In his off games, he frequently still gives his team a chance to win by saving stone breakway after stone breakaway while the score is tight. He is a competitive person and his team knows that. It's Binnington's team. I trust that he is part of the solution now and in the medium term.

It boils down to: I simply have faith in him as an athlete and competitor

 

[Xerloris]

Over the team's last 284 games, Binner's SV% is .902 while all other Blues goalies have a combined .912 SV%

Can you give the number of games from Binnington vs the others during that same 284 games?