Around the NHL 2023-2024

[Brian39]

Hmmm… not sure I support this. Better to say nothing IMO.

I'm not going to be mad about the owner of one NHL team issuing a pretty generic statement of recognition and condolences to the family of a deceased NHL owner (especially since that owner's son is taking over the team). I don't really support the viewpoint that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but that is generally the norm in society and at the end of the day Tom Stillman is going to have to work with Danny Wirtz for as long as they both own the teams.

The public information/findings from the Aldrich Investigation is that Rocky Wirtz didn't learn about it until it went public a decade later. I wouldn't bet my house that this is the truth, but I also wouldn't bet my house that it is a lie. I don't like the way he handled the recent aftermath and I do think it complicates his legacy by a large degree. But I don't think that his response once we know he was informed was enough to merit NHL teams ignoring his death.

 

[Celtic Note]

I'm not going to be mad about the owner of one NHL team issuing a pretty generic statement of recognition and condolences to the family of a deceased NHL owner (especially since that owner's son is taking over the team). I don't really support the viewpoint that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but that is generally the norm in society and at the end of the day Tom Stillman is going to have to work with Danny Wirtz for as long as they both own the teams.

The public information/findings from the Aldrich Investigation is that Rocky Wirtz didn't learn about it until it went public a decade later. I wouldn't bet my house that this is the truth, but I also wouldn't bet my house that it is a lie. I don't like the way he handled the recent aftermath and I do think it complicates his legacy by a large degree. But I don't think that his response once we know he was informed was enough to merit NHL teams ignoring his death.

If Rocky didn’t know I would partially walk my statement back, but as a leader of the club/business, they should be in the know about major issues like that. Some bad actors could conceivably decide not to tell the higher ups however. So who knows. But, he still handled it poorly after he knew. Does that undue his life’s work? Probably not, but it’s certainly a big ding.

Maybe Stillman could have issued a private letter to the family instead of going public?

Either way, it’s not a huge deal to me how Stillman responded. I just would have preferred he didn’t do it in public.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

If Rocky didn’t know I would partially walk my statement back, but as a leader of the club/business, they should be in the know about major issues like that. Some bad actors could conceivably decide not to tell the higher ups however. So who knows. But, he still handled it poorly after he knew. Does that undue his life’s work? Probably not, but it’s certainly a big ding.

Maybe Stillman could have issued a private letter to the family instead of going public?

Either way, it’s not a huge deal to me how Stillman responded. I just would have preferred he didn’t do it in public.

We can infer Stillman believes Rocky isn’t one of the guilty parties. Making a public overture is calculated to create a path toward rehabilitation for the remaining members of the organization.

The guilty should be held to account and punished where appropriate and still possible. But it does little good to pint with such a broad brush that a group of innocent people get punished by association.

I think the entire point of what Stillman is trying to accomplish is to do it publicly. I wager he knows details about what happened that the public don’t know.

 

[Brian39]

If Rocky didn’t know I would partially walk my statement back, but as a leader of the club/business, they should be in the know about major issues like that. Some bad actors could conceivably decide not to tell the higher ups however. So who knows. But, he still handled it poorly after he knew. Does that undue his life’s work? Probably not, but it’s certainly a big ding.

The Jenner & Block report specified that they found no evidence suggesting that Rocky Wirtz knew. Of all the statements made in the investigation, no one indicated that ownership was ever informed.

First, I wouldn't be at all surprised if ownership was made aware, but the people who could have told that to investigators chose to remain silent (or lie) about that point. There is real incentive to not bury a current NHL owner if you ever want to work in hockey again. That is why I wouldn't bet my house either way, but I feel that I should give him the benefit of the doubt. That report burned some long-time hockey men, so a direct statement saying it found no evidence of a person knowing carries more weight than my speculation that it is still possible he knew.

Second, him not knowing still isn't a full absolution. That is a disastrous failure in organizational structure and that was his organization. Having a half-dozen people that you pay decide that they can make that type of decision for your company without informing you is a massive failure. Which is part of the reason the way he handled it after finding out was poor. That outburst at the press conference tells me everything I need to know about how comfortable I'd have felt having difficult conversations with him as my superior.

 

[TheOrganist]

Hmmm… not sure I support this. Better to say nothing IMO.

Fairly certain Stillman had a close business relationship with the Wirtz family from the liquor business long before they both became majority owners. That probably explains the personal statement more than anything.

 

[Bluesfan54]

If Tarasenko was hoping to be signed by Carolina, that ship has sailed. After signing Aho, the Canes have less than a million bucks left.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

If Tarasenko was hoping to be signed by Carolina, that ship has sailed. After signing Aho, the Canes have less than a million bucks left.

At this point, does he just take a 1y contract somewhere and hope for something longer next off-season? Its like there was a game of musical chairs and the music stopped and he's standing there with nowhere to sit.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

At this point, does he just take a 1y contract somewhere and hope for something longer next off-season? Its like there was a game of musical chairs and the music stopped and he's standing there with nowhere to sit.

Still have to pinch myself that we got a 1st for him.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Tarasenko was hoping to be signed by Carolina, that ship has sailed. After signing Aho, the Canes have less than a million bucks left.

Aho was already under contract this coming season. This is an extension that won't start until the 24-25 season. It was the DeAngelo signing that left Carolina with just under $1M.

That said there are possibly more moves coming:

1) They may bury Kochetkov to gain $1.1M
2) They currently have 8 defensemen of which five are "top 4" defensemen (Slavin, Burns, Orlov, Skjei, Pesce). It is very possible that Canes will ship a defenseman out (likely Skjei or Pesce) which will free up another $4M-$5.2M in cap space.

I expect they'll be able to come up with $6M-$7M in cap space to play with if they choose to go down this route. I'm not saying they will, but they have that possibility.

 

[DoubleK81]

I don't really support the viewpoint that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but that is generally the norm in society and at the end of the day Tom Stillman is going to have to work with Danny Wirtz for as long as they both own the teams.

Stillman (Summit) and the Wirtz family (Breakthru) deal with each other in a far more lucrative industry being Beer, Wine, and Spirits distribution including the same products in different areas of the country. This is about more than hockey for them.

Fairly certain Stillman had a close business relationship with the Wirtz family from the liquor business long before they both became majority owners. That probably explains the personal statement more than anything.

Beat me to it, but I didn't see before my previous reply.

 

[Thallis]

If Tarasenko was hoping to be signed by Carolina, that ship has sailed. After signing Aho, the Canes have less than a million bucks left.

If Carolina was ever serious about him, this wouldn't effect it. Aho was always going to be signed, Tarasenko or no.

 

[TheOrganist]

Rocky leaves an interesting legacy for that franchise. For more than a decade he was the hero who reversed his dad's outdated/cheap/shortsighted decisions, brought the team into the 21st century pro sports landscape and presided over the league's first dynasty (or the closest thing to it) in the cap era. However, the last few years have tarnished that reputation quite a bit.

Cup #1 will forever have a black mark due to the organization learning (and doing nothing) about a coach-on-player sex assault during the playoff run. The decade-late investigation into the matter made it crystal clear that the decision to do nothing was motivated by a desire to avoid distraction during the playoff run and that led to a rapist having his name engraved on the Cup. The Xs that now cover that name will now act as a permanent reminder that the team's lowest moment is inseparable from what most of their fanbase considers (or once considered) their fondest memory.

I think Wirtz's legacy could have weathered that storm right up until his outburst about it in the press conference following the league's punishment. His angry insistence to the media that it was over and not to be talked about anymore was incredibly tone deaf and mirrored the motivations that led to the organization doing nothing back in 2010.

I think it is telling that most of the league-wide fan frustration about them getting Bedard was about a morally bankrupt organization being rewarded rather than frustration about a formerly great team getting another star prospect. The most frequent complaints I saw wasn't like people that were pissed that the Pens went from Mario to Sid. It was people pissed that the Hawks even had their 2023 pick in the first place following the results of the Aldrich investigation.

It's going to be interesting to see what Danny Wirtz does in the next 1-2 years to make the organization his own. 2023/24 was clearly year 1 of a new era for them and Danny was the man saying the right things in the wake of the investigation. I have to think that he will be eager to truly make the team his own.

Agreed about the mixed legacy. You could make an argument that the death of Bill Wirtz and the revitalization of the Hawks under Rocky’s leadership (hiring of John McDonaugh, etc) was the single biggest factor in the NHL regaining some form of national relevance after the 04-05 lockout.

 

[PocketNines]

The Jenner & Block report specified that they found no evidence suggesting that Rocky Wirtz knew. Of all the statements made in the investigation, no one indicated that ownership was ever informed.

First, I wouldn't be at all surprised if ownership was made aware, but the people who could have told that to investigators chose to remain silent (or lie) about that point. There is real incentive to not bury a current NHL owner if you ever want to work in hockey again. That is why I wouldn't bet my house either way, but I feel that I should give him the benefit of the doubt. That report burned some long-time hockey men, so a direct statement saying it found no evidence of a person knowing carries more weight than my speculation that it is still possible he knew.

Second, him not knowing still isn't a full absolution. That is a disastrous failure in organizational structure and that was his organization. Having a half-dozen people that you pay decide that they can make that type of decision for your company without informing you is a massive failure. Which is part of the reason the way he handled it after finding out was poor. That outburst at the press conference tells me everything I need to know about how comfortable I'd have felt having difficult conversations with him as my superior.

One of the most poignant stories in Ken Burns' Baseball documentary is Curt Flood recounting an on-field conversation with August Busch, who somehow "didn't know" that the black Cardinal players on the team were forced to stay in lodging 5 miles from their teammates owing to their skin color. Flood was in disbelief and correctly pointed out in the documentary that it's completely on Busch that Busch didn't know.

Wirtz choosing not to know is not even a tiny bit a defense. As you point out, him not knowing was a direct product of his choices to structure his organization in this way. It's more damning. He was ignorant by design.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Tarasenko to the sens. 5 million for one year.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Ottawa ends up with Tarasenko 13 years after they traded that pick for Rundblad

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Tarasenko to the sens. 5 million for one year.

Surprised he got that much. Barbie hit the biggest $ of all our old FAs.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Good for Vladdy

 

[542365]

Ottawa ends up with Tarasenko 13 years after they traded that pick for Rundblad

I swear I read at one time that the Blues/Sens had a prearranged trade in place that if the guy the Sens wanted was gone, they’d trade the pick to the Blues for Rundblad and the guy the Sens wanted was Schwartz who the Blues took two spots earlier. I can’t find the story anymore though so it’s possible I made that up in my head.

 

[BlueDream]

He very likely passed up on better offers early in free agency because he’s an idiot.

But that’s okay, glad he’ll be on a team that will struggle to make the playoffs.

 

[Xerloris]

One of the most poignant stories in Ken Burns' Baseball documentary is Curt Flood recounting an on-field conversation with August Busch, who somehow "didn't know" that the black Cardinal players on the team were forced to stay in lodging 5 miles from their teammates owing to their skin color. Flood was in disbelief and correctly pointed out in the documentary that it's completely on Busch that Busch didn't know.

Wirtz choosing not to know is not even a tiny bit a defense. As you point out, him not knowing was a direct product of his choices to structure his organization in this way. It's more damning. He was ignorant by design.

When you own a franchise the way Wirtz did you have to rely on people to tell you the every day workings. If they choose not to tell you what's going on then how are you suppose to know?

 

[shpongle falls]

I swear I read at one time that the Blues/Sens had a prearranged trade in place that if the guy the Sens wanted was gone, they’d trade the pick to the Blues for Rundblad and the guy the Sens wanted was Schwartz who the Blues took two spots earlier. I can’t find the story anymore though so it’s possible I made that up in my head.

I definitely remember reading about that too. What an incredible draft, Schwartz and Tarasenko were an awesome duo for the Blues. I hope Dvorsky and Snuggerud can have a similar impact once they make it to the NHL.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

He very likely passed up on better offers early in free agency because he’s an idiot.

But that’s okay, glad he’ll be on a team that will struggle to make the playoffs.

Every year, there always seems to be one guy who listens a bit too much to their overly optimistic agent and passes on decent offers at the opening of UFA, only to end up on some random team with a one year deal.

 

[oPlaiD]

Every year, there always seems to be one guy who listens a bit too much to their overly optimistic agent and passes on decent offers at the opening of UFA, only to end up on some random team with a one year deal.

Tarasenko's case is kind of interesting, since I think it's entirely possible a one year deal like this may have been his best play all along. With the cap set to start raising again, teams will be throwing significantly more money around very soon.

Whether this is a good strategy for him, though, hinges entirely on the level of performance he can bring for this one season. His play the last two has definitely left a lot to be desired, and only he truly knows the state of his health and motivation.

Tarasenko is a weird one to me since to me he seems like the type of player who could use the lack of interest in him as fuel for a resurgence, but also like the type of guy who shuts down if he feels disrespected when he feels he's already proven himself.

 

[Brian39]

Tarasenko's case is kind of interesting, since I think it's entirely possible a one year deal like this may have been his best play all along. With the cap set to start raising again, teams will be throwing significantly more money around very soon.

Whether this is a good strategy for him, though, hinges entirely on the level of performance he can bring for this one season. His play the last two has definitely left a lot to be desired, and only he truly knows the state of his health and motivation.

Tarasenko is a weird one to me since to me he seems like the type of player who could use the lack of interest in him as fuel for a resurgence, but also like the type of guy who shuts down if he feels disrespected when he feels he's already proven himself.

His play in 2022/23 was a disappointment, but he was great the year before. He had 34 goals (32nd in the NHL) and 82 points (29th) in 75 games. The defense wasn't great (it never has been), but you don't pay a guy like Tarasenko for his defense.

Given the inflation of scoring league-wide in the last few years, his 34 goals and 82 points in 2021/22 wasn't as big of an accomplishment as the 3 straight years he put up 35+ goals and 70+ points in his age 23-25 seasons. But he was 30 and I don't think that anything short of a career year should be considered a disappointment.

He had a down year and might not be a top-end scorer anymore. But he was great in 2021/22.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Every year, there always seems to be one guy who listens a bit too much to their overly optimistic agent and passes on decent offers at the opening of UFA, only to end up on some random team with a one year deal.

How do we know it wasn’t the opposite? It could very well be that it was Vladi’s agent that was the reasonable one and recommending Vladi take one of the multi year offers he got early, Vladi thinking he could get/deserved more, getting frustrated and firing his agent.