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Blueston said:
zadorov to canucks for 3rd and 5th. feels light. nice trade for vancouver.
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Thought he might've been able to squeeze a 2nd out of some team if Conroy had waited till the TDL. The canucks have traded away a lot of future 2nd/3rd picks, but still odd that the 3rd isn't until 2026...
 
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stl76 said:
Thought he might've been able to squeeze a 2nd out of some team if Conroy had waited till the TDL. The canucks have traded away a lot of future 2nd/3rd picks, but still odd that the 3rd isn't until 2026...
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After Zadorov's agent went public with his trade request, I don't think Conroy could really hold off until the trade deadline to make a move.

Kind of dampens the return when people know that you're actively trying to move a 4-6 dman, who isn't particularly prominent in any regard except for his size & physicality.
 
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I’m pretty “take it or leave it” in regards to fighting in hockey. A good scrap is fun to watch, but if they banned it I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. That said, how did nobody on the Devils drop them with Hathaway after that hit on Luke Hughes? That should’ve been an immediate scrap no questions asked. Cant let a 4th liner take a run at a young star like that unpunished.
 
542365 said:
I’m pretty “take it or leave it” in regards to fighting in hockey. A good scrap is fun to watch, but if they banned it I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. That said, how did nobody on the Devils drop them with Hathaway after that hit on Luke Hughes? That should’ve been an immediate scrap no questions asked. Cant let a 4th liner take a run at a young star like that unpunished.
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Siegenthaller tries to respond but the linesman is right there to break it up.

However I wouldn't label it as Hathaway taking a run at Hughes, Hathaway continues the play and delivers the hit due to an extremely late whistle on an icing call, and he's slightly nudged by Siegenthaller. That said usually even a big legal hit generates a response by teammates.

IMO the hit happens because of the very late whistle (as Hughes touches the puck), so I disagree with the penalties to Hathaway. This kind of thing is why hybrid icing was implemented in the first place.
 
542365 said:
I’m pretty “take it or leave it” in regards to fighting in hockey. A good scrap is fun to watch, but if they banned it I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. That said, how did nobody on the Devils drop them with Hathaway after that hit on Luke Hughes? That should’ve been an immediate scrap no questions asked. Cant let a 4th liner take a run at a young star like that unpunished.
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come on that wasn't taking a run. Hughes stopped in front of him while they were going full speed and the dude is twice his size. The linesman is responsible for that hit.
 
mk80 said:


Siegenthaller tries to respond but the linesman is right there to break it up.

However I wouldn't label it as Hathaway taking a run at Hughes, Hathaway continues the play and delivers the hit due to an extremely late whistle on an icing call, and he's slightly nudged by Siegenthaller. That said usually even a big legal hit generates a response by teammates.

IMO the hit happens because of the very late whistle (as Hughes touches the puck), so I disagree with the penalties to Hathaway. This kind of thing is why hybrid icing was implemented in the first place.
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this makes me miss the old rules & Rob Ramage
 
That's a team whose window looks to have shut. They had a great run. Can't see them bringing Stamkos back next season.
 
Good feature on ESPN The Point about Tage Thompson. Very well done.

Price we had to pay to get O'Reilly and the Cup. Hope he has a long and healthy career.
 
mk80 said:
I like that Armstrong is using them as the model for our retool. Hopefully we come out of ours as successful as they have
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Part of it is a number of their recent picks have started playing well or were traded for good pieces...

But you need to take note of how many early picks LA benefits from under this retool. Something that the Rangers also benefitted from that often doesn't get mentioned.

That's 3 top 8 picks in a 3 year span, some excellent 2nd round picks and capitalizing on trading for big adds to address holes long term.

2019
5oa Turcotte * wiff, but needs to be mentioned
22oa Bjornfot AHL developing
33oa Kaliev NHL middle 6er 20 gp 6-6-12p

2020
2oa Byfield - stud top forward 21 gp 8-13-21p
35oa Grans - sweetener traded to move Peterson contract, creating cap to sign Gavrikov
45oa Faber - part of price for Fiala

2021
8oa Clarke - heir apparent to Doughty, PPG in rookie AHL season

2022
1st - part of Fiala cost

In order to "use the LA retool model" we need to make another 2 picks that are top 5oa, hit big on 3 2nd rounders and flip a few of them for a top 6 winger and top 4 dman. We have Snuggy, Stenberg, Dean, Lidstein, Bolduc that would be similar trade chips - but only Dvorsky remotely resembles that Blue chip prospect.

We'd need to acquire a stabilizing veteran defensive LD, ship out Krug, bring in Nylander (or similar caliber player that a club can't afford). But we don't have the cap space to pull that off - we're near the cap ceiling and our contracts that might be moved for returns have NTCs.

We are a little too good to tank, because Binnington is winning us some games, but we seem destined for a first round flame out in a weak western conference playoff picture if we squeak into the playoffs... Or that dreaded 12-16oa pick that gets you a good player, but not that coveted top consensus prospect.
 
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Brockon said:
Part of it is a number of their recent picks have started playing well or were traded for good pieces...

But you need to take note of how many early picks LA benefits from under this retool. Something that the Rangers also benefitted from that often doesn't get mentioned.

That's 3 top 8 picks in a 3 year span, some excellent 2nd round picks and capitalizing on trading for big adds to address holes long term.

2019
5oa Turcotte * wiff, but needs to be mentioned
22oa Bjornfot AHL developing
33oa Kaliev NHL middle 6er 20 gp 6-6-12p

2020
2oa Byfield - stud top forward 21 gp 8-13-21p
35oa Grans - sweetener traded to move Peterson contract, creating cap to sign Gavrikov
45oa Faber - part of price for Fiala

2021
8oa Clarke - heir apparent to Doughty, PPG in rookie AHL season

2022
1st - part of Fiala cost

In order to "use the LA retool model" we need to make another 2 picks that are top 5oa, hit big on 3 2nd rounders and flip a few of them for a top 6 winger and top 4 dman. We have Snuggy, Stenberg, Dean, Lidstein, Bolduc that would be similar trade chips - but only Dvorsky remotely resembles that Blue chip prospect.

We'd need to acquire a stabilizing veteran defensive LD, ship out Krug, bring in Nylander (or similar caliber player that a club can't afford). But we don't have the cap space to pull that off - we're near the cap ceiling and our contracts that might be moved for returns have NTCs.

We are a little too good to tank, because Binnington is winning us some games, but we seem destined for a first round flame out in a weak western conference playoff picture if we squeak into the playoffs... Or that dreaded 12-16oa pick that gets you a good player, but not that coveted top consensus prospect.
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Agree with a ton of this, but my push back is about needing to make two top 5 overall picks, even if they ultimately don't contribute to your success. I think using them as a model is different from trying to do the exact same things they did.

Turcotte is contributing exactly nothing to their organizational success at the moment. He has 0 points in 12 NHL games and hasn't seen the NHL this season. He has not been traded for a contributing piece. Maybe he blooms late and eventually contributes, but he has been quite literally a complete waste of a pick so far. No player drafted in the top 15 from 2016-2019 has contributed less in the NHL than Turcotte. 13 of the guys drafted top 15 in 2020 have contributed more and one of the two non-contributors is a very good goalie prospect. The jury is still out on a lot of the top 15 from 2021 draft class, but each of the top 5 picks have already out-contributed Turcotte at the NHL level.

He could be a later bloomer who finds it eventually, but as it stands right now he is the worst top 5 pick in years and has fallen well short of what you should reasonably expect to get out of any pick a non-playoff team would make. Their current team would be in the exact same position if they had just given away the pick for nothing and that isn't at all within the expected outcome of a top 5 pick. There are misses in the top 5 and then there is Turcotte.

I have enough confidence in the Blues scouting/development that I'm very comfortable with a plan that doesn't assume we need two top 5 picks in order to land the organizational value of a Byfield and a guy who can't make the NHL in his D+5 season. I'm very comfortable following the lessons/guidance of accumulating surplus picks in the 20-60 range and then flipping some of that for proven NHL quantities while ignoring the strategy of wasting a top 5 pick.

Again, I agree with a ton of what you're saying and very much agree that the Blues have a ton of work to do in order to follow in LA's footsteps. I think that even in the absolute best case scenario, our rebuild/retool will (and must) at least slightly differ from LA's.
 
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