Around the NHL 2022-2023 *Mod warning in effect pg145

[Thallis]

I don't agree. They have made 3 trips to the Conference Final and a trip to the Cup Final. Two of the three conference final trips have taken place over the last 3 seasons. That's more success in 5 years than the large majority of teams have seen over the last decade. They had the 6th-highest average attendance last year and their tickets are not cheap. Despite initial concerns that their building would just be a tourist attraction full of mostly visiting fans, they quickly build a large local fanbase.

I don't think 1 year of missing the playoffs in an injury-riddled season means that they have lost their gamble.


I don't like the decisions Vegas has made trading tons of futures for short term pieces, but I think the 'disrespect' of players has been overblown.

They stopped keeping Fleury's agent in the loop regarding trade destinations because he started calling the potential teams and telling them that Fleury would retire if he got traded there. I don't know whether this was a bluff or whether he was genuinely considering retirement. Either way, Fleury's agent was actively trying to prevent a trade with the info that they were sharing with him. All of this came a year after the same agent posted an illustration of a bloody sword labeled 'Deboer' being plunged through Fleury's back. I've got zero problem with an agent doing everything he can to further his client's interest, but it is ridiculous to ignore that stuff while saying that the team owed him more basic courtesy. Basic courtesy was being weaponized against the team, so the team stopped offering it.

I put the Dadonov thing much, much more on Ottawa and the NHL than I do on Vegas. Central Registry's position at the time Vegas received Dadonov was that he didn't have trade protection in 2021/22. If the league tells a team 'that player doesn't have a valid no trade clause' then I can't blame a team for trusting that.

The Gallant thing was Florida, not Vegas. Gallant also clarified that the team called a car service for him but he just wanted to get the hell out of there ASAP and got a cab instead.

Again, I think Vegas has made some large missteps chasing aging top-end talent at the expense of the future. But I find their mercenary reputation to be overblown. 3 guys on their roster have full NMCs and another 7 guys have modified NTCs. Every agent in the league knows that NTCs and NMCs are how teams demonstrate loyalty. Anyone in the business of hockey who claims otherwise is either lying to drive a narrative or won't be long for the business of hockey.

Just want to add that Armstrong did the exact same thing to Berglund that Vegas did to Dadonov (arguably worse because Army knew he was supposed to have the list).

 

[ToniJ1960]

No I comprehended it fine. He assumed that because the twitter post claimed to be from a woman, that it factual was. We do not know this for certain. The accuser claims to be female, but you can claim anything on the internet. It happens all the time with cat-fishing schemes where men pretend to be women online.. Anyone with a grudge against Cole, male, female or otherwise, could have written that post.

I didn't spread misinformation because I literally did not spread any information. I merely pointed out that we don't know for sure the posters gender.

I apologize since nothing in the letter is proven I took it that you were saying it wasnt stated anywhere, and I definitely recalled seeing it in there. At first reading it I was wondering too.

 

[Brockon]

Just want to add that Armstrong did the exact same thing to Berglund that Vegas did to Dadonov (arguably worse because Army knew he was supposed to have the list).

Yes, definitely something I remember having some issues with in terms of honouring contracts.

I expect that we'll see some shenanigans towards the back end of the Schenn, Krug, Faulk and potentially Parayko deals - DA capitalizing on agent mistakes or dealing them to any organization not on the modified NTCs in their age 34-36 seasons if they start declining too much.

 

[BlueDream]

Yes, definitely something I remember having some issues with in terms of honouring contracts.

I expect that we'll see some shenanigans towards the back end of the Schenn, Krug, Faulk and potentially Parayko deals - DA capitalizing on agent mistakes or dealing them to any organization not on the modified NTCs in their age 34-36 seasons if they start declining too much.

You make it seem as if Armstrong is actively trying to screw players over. That hasn’t been remotely true and in fact he does the exact opposite. If a player wants out he will do his damndest to find a good situation for that player.

Berglund and his agent didn’t submit his NTC. That’s completely on them and has nothing to do with not honoring a contract. If you have a problem with Armstrong for that, that’s nuts.

 

[Brockon]

You make it seem as if Armstrong is actively trying to screw players over. That hasn’t been remotely true and in fact he does the exact opposite. If a player wants out he will do his damndest to find a good situation for that player.

Berglund and his agent didn’t submit his NTC. That’s completely on them and has nothing to do with not honoring a contract. If you have a problem with Armstrong for that, that’s nuts.

You're glossing over context here and reviving an old discussion that was discussed ad nauseam.

This was brought up around my label of Vegas as a mercenary organization and my hopes to see them falter out the gates and face-plant.

Mostly because I got sick of reading the discourse over the Ian Cole debacle... I was content to shift the focus towards discussing the season games, despite not having any Blues games to discuss for the next few days.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

You make it seem as if Armstrong is actively trying to screw players over. That hasn’t been remotely true and in fact he does the exact opposite. If a player wants out he will do his damndest to find a good situation for that player.

Berglund and his agent didn’t submit his NTC. That’s completely on them and has nothing to do with not honoring a contract. If you have a problem with Armstrong for that, that’s nuts.

Right. Was Armstrong supposed to act as though Berglund had a NMC and not include him as a tradable asset in negotiations during the peak of the UFA period? That would be malpractice on his part, penalizing the Blues organization for Berglund/his agent's mistake.

He did right by Fabbri, Gillies, Clifford, and others, most recently Kostin. I would be surprised if Kostin didn't request a trade, and if he didn't I think his agent isn't doing his job.

 

[Eldon Reid]

Just want to add that Armstrong did the exact same thing to Berglund that Vegas did to Dadonov (arguably worse because Army knew he was supposed to have the list).

While yes he is suppose to have a list, how is he suppose to know what teams are on it if the list isn't submitted like it should be. Not going to call him but like you didn't submit your list, can you do that, I'm thinking about trading you. Also this wasn't like his 1st time with NTC or M-NTC.

15-16 to 16-17 He had M-NTC
17-18 NTC
18-19 through end of contract he had M-NTC.

Be like working at job.

Someone calls in sick. You have seniority and don't answer the phone call and don't call back for 2 hours. The next worker in line answers the phone and takes those hours from you. You can't get mad for because you didn't answer the call.

 

[Xerloris]

Yes, definitely something I remember having some issues with in terms of honouring contracts.

It's a two way street. If Burglund had honored the contract then Armstrong would not have had the ability to trade him. Why are you only pointing to Army for honoring a contract?

 

[Thallis]

While yes he is suppose to have a list, how is he suppose to know what teams are on it if the list isn't submitted like it should be. Not going to call him but like you didn't submit your list, can you do that, I'm thinking about trading you. Also this wasn't like his 1st time with NTC or M-NTC.

15-16 to 16-17 He had M-NTC
17-18 NTC
18-19 through end of contract he had M-NTC.

Be like working at job.

Someone calls in sick. You have seniority and don't answer the phone call and don't call back for 2 hours. The next worker in line answers the phone and takes those hours from you. You can't get mad for because you didn't answer the call.

He absolutely can do this, but this isn't the point I was making. I was pointing out that using Dadonov as an example of poor player treatment that the person and others have done is a glass house considering the Berglund situation.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Berglund and his agent screwed it up. I knew long before it came out that Berglund had some mental health issues while with the Blues, which I'm sure played a part in this fiasco. There is no more to this story.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Montreal takes the lead on Toronto with 18 seconds left. Love it!

 

[BlueMed]

Montreal takes the lead on Toronto with 18 seconds left. Love it!

Morgan Rielly is so bad defensively. It's outrageous that he's considered a top defenseman in this league.

 

[TheDizee]

Morgan Rielly is so bad defensively. It's outrageous that he's considered a top defenseman in this league.

remember when the leafs traded for brian leetch and their pathetic fans thought he was gonna win the norris?

 

[The Note]

McDavid season opening hat trick and already at 701 points in 488 games. What an incredible player.

 

[Brian39]

Yes, definitely something I remember having some issues with in terms of honouring contracts.

I expect that we'll see some shenanigans towards the back end of the Schenn, Krug, Faulk and potentially Parayko deals - DA capitalizing on agent mistakes or dealing them to any organization not on the modified NTCs in their age 34-36 seasons if they start declining too much.

Army's shenanigans are cheeky and fun. The Vegas shenanigans are cruel and tragic...which makes them not really shenanigans at all.

Jokes aside, I don't view capitalizing on agent mistakes or leveraging limited trade protection as shenanigans. It is demonstrating the exact amount of loyalty you offered the player in the contract he signed. No player without a full NMC should expect complete and total loyalty from the organization. Any halfway-competent agent should be able to explain that concept to a player in a matter of minutes. Those guys each had hundreds of games of NHL experience before they signed those deals. Krug, Faulk, and Schenn have each experienced a parting of ways from the team that drafted them. You don't get to that point in the league without understanding the cutthroat nature of the business. I'd be absolutely stunned if any of those guys believe that their NTC (and eventual modified NTC) do anything but prevent them from going to a city that they don't want to be in.

For the record, I don't have a problem with the way Army handled the Bergy situation. I feel bad for Bergy and I'd love to know exactly how the ball got dropped on his end. But Army doesn't owe the players any more loyalty than the terms put in writing and Bergy's side failed to put his non-desired destinations in writing. By the same token, I don't have a problem with the way Vegas has handled their players (even though I have disagreed with many of their strategic decisions).

 

[ValHaller]

When we're talking about organizations with millions of dollars in cap money on the line plus the millions in revenue generated by having a good on-ice product, I'm sure these GMs lose very little sleep over this kind of stuff and the ownership groups are probably tickled pink when they can pull off this "shenannery."

 

[Stealth JD]

some nice games tonight:
Rangers @ Wild
Washington @ Toronto
Dallas @ Nashville
Colorado @ Calgary

I'll probably check out the Stars and Preds; want to see Wyatt Johnston and I love watching Heiskanen. Tanner Jeannot is a fun wrecking-ball as well. Central should be a 5-way battle, with Winnipeg probably in the mix as well if Perfetti can bring a spark with Bowness tightening up the defense.

 

[Hrkac Circus]

Army's shenanigans are cheeky and fun. The Vegas shenanigans are cruel and tragic...which makes them not really shenanigans at all.

Jokes aside, I don't view capitalizing on agent mistakes or leveraging limited trade protection as shenanigans. It is demonstrating the exact amount of loyalty you offered the player in the contract he signed. No player without a full NMC should expect complete and total loyalty from the organization. Any halfway-competent agent should be able to explain that concept to a player in a matter of minutes. Those guys each had hundreds of games of NHL experience before they signed those deals. Krug, Faulk, and Schenn have each experienced a parting of ways from the team that drafted them. You don't get to that point in the league without understanding the cutthroat nature of the business. I'd be absolutely stunned if any of those guys believe that their NTC (and eventual modified NTC) do anything but prevent them from going to a city that they don't want to be in.

For the record, I don't have a problem with the way Army handled the Bergy situation. I feel bad for Bergy and I'd love to know exactly how the ball got dropped on his end. But Army doesn't owe the players any more loyalty than the terms put in writing and Bergy's side failed to put his non-desired destinations in writing. By the same token, I don't have a problem with the way Vegas has handled their players (even though I have disagreed with many of their strategic decisions).

Evil shenanigans.

 

[Stealth JD]

McDavid season opening hat trick and already at 701 points in 488 games. What an incredible player.

I hope Bedard is the Mario to his Gretzky-ness.

 

[Brian39]

McDavid season opening hat trick and already at 701 points in 488 games. What an incredible player.

Edmonton's inability to build a complete team around him might end up being one of the greatest failures in pro sports. I believe it is the greatest organizational failure I've ever witnessed in the NHL. The Sabres squandering Hasek's prime used to be my top choice, but they at least made the playoffs 6 times in Hasek's first 7 years as a Sabre and managed to get to triple OT of game 6 in a Final. In McDavid's first 7 seasons with the Oilers they have only made the playoffs 4 times and their deepest run was a sweep in the Conference Final (a series in which they managed to lose two separate games where McDavid had 3 points). They have won just 3 total playoff series with McDavid, despite him scoring 55 points in his 37 playoff games. Hasek's Sabres won 6 series in his first 7 years there.

He's now one of just 7 guys who have won 4 scoring titles. He's the only one of them without his name on the Cup and the other 6 all won a Cup before (or in the same season as) their 4th scoring title.

He's one of just 7 guys who have won 3 Lindsay/Pearson awards. The other 6 all have at least one Cup and Ovie is the only one in the group who didn't get his Cup before his 3rd award win.

He's finished no lower than 5th in Hart voting for 6 straight years. That's every season of his career except for his injury-shortened rookie season where he only played 45 games.

He has a 77 point lead in points since he entered the league. Drai is #3 on that list. Drai and McDavid are 3rd and 4th in goals scored in that stretch. Despite this, the supporting cast around him has been so bad that the Oilers have never finished top 5 in goals scored during the McDavid era. The highest they have been is 7th. They have been 20th or worse as often as they've been in the top 10. All in all, the Oilers are 13th in goals for during the McDavid era (14th if you go by goals per game to factor in Vegas not existing for the first 2 years). That is unfathomable. They have two of the top 5 offensive players of the era and have somehow been simply average offensively. Ignore the years of incompetency to build a good defense group or find a quality goalie. They've failed to build an elite offensive around two of the league's best offensive players.

He's under contract for 4 more years and I don't see a cavalry coming. They only have $11M in space to fill 9 spots next season. An increase in the cap and Barrie coming off the books the following year will create a chance to bring in support, but we're still talking about 2 years with largely the group they have now. They have put all of their remaining chips on Jack Campbell and Stuart Skinner. There isn't a solution next year if neither of them turn out to be good enough. And then you're talking about Drai being a year from UFA and McDavid being 2 years from UFA.

I want to see McDavid have success in Edmonton. Even if it isn't a Cup win, I want to see them making consistent deep playoff runs and being one of the clear top dogs in the West. He's the best player of his generation and watching him and Drai drag around a dead carcass of a team sucks. Watching him finish as the playoff scoring leader but still fall 8 wins shy of a Cup sucks. Watching his team go 2-4 in the six playoff games where he had 3+ points sucks.

The Oilers have robbed us fans of seeing the level of greatness he should have attained by now.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Burn the Oil!

 

[PocketNines]

Counterpoint as to why it doesn't suck. It means that if your team isn't lucky enough to have the top player, you aren't eliminated or hugely disadvantaged before you begin (cough NBA cough). I like that in hockey compared with other team sports it's how complete is the entire team rather than how good are your top stars. It implies there's more of a puzzle to be solved as to how to build a team as opposed to "be the team with the best guy." The Blues had a lot of years where the playoffs brutally exposed a lack of depth even though they had multiple hall of famers at forward and defense.

I wouldn't say I'm against Edmonton putting together a great team around its two stars but a) it's correctly difficult! and secondably) Edmonton not winning because they are imbalanced is a valuable encouragement to teams like the Blues who are built very differently.

 

[Celtic Note]

I just don't care about this type of stuff when so much time has passed. An anonymous social media account took away all credibility imo. At least have a reporter verify identity and then write the story. The public doesn't need to know but someone the public "trusts" should.

Are reporters trustworthy anymore though? Integrity doesn’t seem to be at the top the list you find in many reporters these days.

 

[Stealth JD]

I liked Jim Nill's off-season for Dallas, bringing in Marchment & Lundkvist. To me they're the 2nd best team in the division. If Benn and Seguin can just not stink, they should be able to score now that Bowness is gone; even if I do hate DeBoer.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I liked Jim Nill's off-season for Dallas, bringing in Marchment & Lundkvist. To me they're the 2nd best team in the division. If Benn and Seguin can just not stink, they should be able to score now that Bowness is gone; even if I do hate DeBoer.

I still think Colorado is better than them and will take 2nd.