Around the NHL 2015-16: Part II

[Jim Bob]

Start by reducing pad size.

They've reduced the width and height of the leg pads, they've reduced the size of the blocker and the circumference of the trapper. They've streamlined the fit of the C/A and pants. They've made the jerseys tighter.

Equipment size is a red herring.

Goalies are bigger, more athletic, and most importantly better coached than ever before.

 

[Jim Bob]

In a very strange turn of events...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...-after-firing-leads-to-protest-231807890.html

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.csnbayarea.com/sharks/sharks-marleau-responds-trade-rumors

Q: There was a story out of Canada tonight that you’re involved in some trade rumors.

Marleau: “Starting early this year.†(laughs)

Q: How do you handle those kinds of things?

Marleau: “I just go out and play. I can’t control what people are saying, or anything like that. Just focus on what I can control.â€

Q: Has the club asked you to waive anything?

Marleau: “No.â€

Q: Can you imagine any situation in which they would, and you would agree to that?

Marleau: “I don’t speculate or anything like that.â€

Earlier in the day, Elliotte Friedman of Hockey Night in Canada said during a broadcast: “One of the names we’re hearing out there is Patrick Marleau. He’s got a no movement clause. There’s zero evidence the Sharks have asked him to waive it so I can’t say who is pushing for it, but his name is definitely out there.â€

Marleau is in the second of a three-year, $20 million contract extension signed on Jan. 24, 2014. It carries a $6.67 million salary cap hit.

 

[Beerz]

I don't mind fighting, but I could do without those staged goon fights where they line up for a faceoff and are just like "hey you wanna go" and afterwards both teams tap their sticks and say good job.

Fighting is fine, but it has to happen organically within the context of the game. And unfortunately, those 4th line goons don't contribute to that very much. They come, play for 3 minutes, do a staged fight, then sit on the bench the rest of the game because coaches realize that goals win games, not PIM.

John Scott added nothing of real value. Him fighting George Parros simply because they were playing each other did nothing for me--I'd watch boxing if I wanted to see that. But fights generated out of real bad blood? Yeah, those can stay.

Well I agree to a point. The staged stuff can be lame but it's not always like that between goons. And lets face it ..for an enforcer John Scott was a pretty dull fighter all around.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Well I agree to a point. The staged stuff can be lame but it's not always like that between goons. And lets face it ..for an enforcer John Scott was a pretty dull fighter all around.

Except for that one time when he sent Thornton out with a concussion

 

[Crazy Tasty]

Well I agree to a point. The staged stuff can be lame but it's not always like that between goons. And lets face it ..for an enforcer John Scott was a pretty dull fighter all around.

Dorsett vs Kaleta may be one of my all time favorite 'fights'.

 

[Jame]

Dorsett vs Kaleta may be one of my all time favorite 'fights'.

I was in complete awe for those 20 seconds.

 

[Jim Bob]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...las-stars-are-not-your-typical-nhl-powerhouse

Amid growing concern over then-Boston Bruins' scorer Tyler Seguin's off-ice partying, Nill dealt three prospects and then-27-year old All-Star Loui Eriksson for the then-21-year old Seguin.

It was a trade that was, as Nill describes it, a "unique situation." For all of Seguin's perceived shortcomings, Nill relied on his own experience. During Nill's time with the Detroit, Seguin played for the OHL's Plymouth Whalers and Nill lived just 10 minutes from their arena. Nill would go see Seguin and the Whalers more than 30 times a year when he was in charge of the Wings' amateur scouting.

"I knew who Tyler was," says Nill. "I had known him in the community, had a good feel for him and knew who he was as a person. I wasn't too worried about the off-ice stuff. He's a young guy and young guys are going to have some fun."

Nill says rumours of Seguin's partying weren't a concern for him or owner Tom Gaglardi. Seguin has since stated that he believes the Bruins gave up on him too early.

"Every player has things they need to mature on. Tyler would be the first one to admit that," Nill said.

 

[Megaera]

Not worrying about things like bad hits or staged fights requires us to ignore everything we've learned about concussions and their long-term consequences in recent years. With rare exceptions, I find the fighting pretty boring to begin with, so I suppose that makes it easy for me to say that it's not worth it, but I don't think the trade off is a good one. And I don't think it's good for the game or its entertainment value to be losing skilled players to injury so that we can keep dangerous hits.

 

[TehDoak]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...las-stars-are-not-your-typical-nhl-powerhouse

I've said it for awhile, and I'll continue to say it. The Seguin trade was the biggest ego-centric trade I've seen. The whole doing things "The Bruin Way" ahead of common sense is just awful.

Complaining that 21 year old Seguin wasn't matching up to 25 year old Patrick Kane (which is what the bruins staff was doing in the "Behind the B" Segment post their 2013 cup loss to the Hawks) is so stupid.

They were GIFTED a 2nd overall pick in Kessel trade. Then they turned around and traded Quality for Quantity because a 21 year old living in Boston stayed out late a few times and it rubbed a few people in management the wrong way.

If Eichel goes out drinking when he's 21 and he's late to practice a few times, I'd be furious if he was traded over it.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

They've reduced the width and height of the leg pads, they've reduced the size of the blocker and the circumference of the trapper. They've streamlined the fit of the C/A and pants. They've made the jerseys tighter.

Equipment size is a red herring.

Goalies are bigger, more athletic, and most importantly better coached than ever before.

Make the pads smaller again. Seriously. Much, much smaller.

 

[Jim Bob]

Make the pads smaller again. Seriously. Much, much smaller.

First, why would that change all that much when it didn't result in less goals against the last two times they went after the goalie gear?

There isn't that much room to make them all that much smaller unless you are throwing goalies out there with forwards shin pads on.

And height is already based on length of the goalies legs so that the knees of goaltenders aren't overly exposed for injury prevention purposes.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/2015-2016-Interactive-rulebook.pdf

If you look at rule 11, I'd love to hear your alterations to the equipment size rules.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

First, why would that change all that much when it didn't result in less goals against the last two times they went after the goalie gear?

There isn't that much room to make them all that much smaller unless you are throwing goalies out there with forwards shin pads on.

And height is already based on length of the goalies legs so that the knees of goaltenders aren't overly exposed for injury prevention purposes.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/2015-2016-Interactive-rulebook.pdf

If you look at rule 11, I'd love to hear your alterations to the equipment size rules.

No BS, I want them to be much smaller in width than they are now. Somewhere in between what they have now and something that just covers the leg.

 

[Djp]

They've reduced the width and height of the leg pads, they've reduced the size of the blocker and the circumference of the trapper. They've streamlined the fit of the C/A and pants. They've made the jerseys tighter.

Equipment size is a red herring.

Goalies are bigger, more athletic, and most importantly better coached than ever before.

Widening the goal would be a red herring.

Widening the goal the proposed with of the posts means the goalies need to come out a little but farther (maybe an inch or two) to cut down the angle so the players still hit the post.

 

[haseoke39]

Widening the goal would be a red herring.

Widening the goal the proposed with of the posts means the goalies need to come out a little but farther (maybe an inch or two) to cut down the angle so the players still hit the post.

Which would encourage more dekes and passing plays, to which they would be more vulnerable.

 

[Djp]

​

Dorsett vs Kaleta may be one of my all time favorite 'fights'.

My favorite was that Ottawa/Buffalo brawl game where Buffalo but the tough line on the #1 line. I think in the fight the goalies went at it.

 

[Paxon]

​

My favorite was that Ottawa/Buffalo brawl game where Buffalo but the tough line on the #1 line. I think in the fight the goalies went at it.

And Peters fought Emery

 

[joshjull]

How do you make the nets bigger without making smaller goalies extinct, and how do you collect the data to make that decision?

This is easily one of the silliest concerns I've read on here in some time

 

[joshjull]

I went back and watched parts of classic games on NHL.com from the 1980s. And I remember games from the later parts of the 1980s. I saw similar or less interference. Lots of skating room on smaller rinks.

What I did notice was the size of goalies. Grant Fuhr, for example, looks tiny in his gear in 1981 compared to later in the decade.

Also, I think it's important to notice the explosion of butterfly style goalies.

So, on your first point, I don't agree. I think refs can call interference and open up the game. Worked in the NFL with pass interference.

On your second point, completely agree.

There was more time and space back then because players were smaller and (more importantly) they were slower/less athletic than today. Players now can close down time and space with a skill and speed that just didn't exist back then. But once you got near another player back then there was tons of hooking and holding. Its stands out glaringly in any game I watch from that era. In front of the net, pretty much anything was allowed. Thats not remotely the case now.

The game back then looks more akin to the speed of a bar league game when compared to the modern NHL and the speed its played at.

 

[ZZamboni]

The velocity of a puck shot in the 80's with wood or fiberglass sticks is much much different than velocity of pucks today. That is part of the reason for the bigger goalie equipment.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

This is easily one of the silliest concerns I've read on here in some time

I completely do not trust this league to make significant changes without equally significant, unforeseen consequences, mostly because they literally have been unable to since the 05 lockout. I could absolutely see the NHL expanding nets in a way that makes simply taking up more space more important than reflexes.

 

[joshjull]

I completely do not trust this league to make significant changes without equally significant, unforeseen consequences, mostly because they literally have been unable to since the 05 lockout. I could absolutely see the NHL expanding nets in a way that makes simply taking up more space more important than reflexes.

Thats already the case now with goalies. If current rules on goalie equipment keep it from growing while nets are increased in size. Then I fail to see the issue. Unless you're envisioning 7ft 400b goalies.

You're thinking too hard and coming up with a silly concern.

 

[TheStorm]

I completely do not trust this league to make significant changes without equally significant, unforeseen consequences, mostly because they literally have been unable to since the 05 lockout. I could absolutely see the NHL expanding nets in a way that makes simply taking up more space more important than reflexes.

I could see some one like Enroth struggle mightily with bigger nets. The poor lads already a midget by goalie standards.

 

[Montag DP]

Just start calling obstruction again like they did ten years ago. Problem solved, and the game is a lot more fun to watch, too (not just more goals for the sake of MOAR GOALZ ).

 

[joshjull]

Just start calling obstruction again like they did ten years ago. Problem solved, and the game is a lot more fun to watch, too (not just more goals for the sake of MOAR GOALZ ).

They are never going to call it like they did 10 years ago. Posters need to let that go. The players and some GMs wanted more obstruction allowed because dmen were getting killed by unobstructed forwards on the forecheck.

The goaltending position is the single biggest reason scoring is way down from the 1980s when it was at its height. Goalies are much bigger, more athletic and far better coached. They take up way more of the net than they ever did back then.

So if posters really want the sport to have the type of offense that was produced back then in the high scoring 80s addressing the goalie issue needs to be done. Can't reverse their skill or their physical size. Some efforts were made to decrease the equipment size. But the NHLPA isn't going to let a drastic reduction take place. So we are left with the one thing that can be changed. How much of the net the goalie takes up. To reduce the proportion they take up the nets can be done by increasing the size of the net.


There needs to be a reminder of the type of goals that were scored back then. A LOT more goals were scored off the wings and in the mid range shooting areas of the ice. And it was done without needing a screen because there was so much more area to shoot at. Goalies were beat clean from those areas and others as well. Those type of goals are pretty rare in the game these day. A good deal of goals now are scored by heavily screening the goalie looking to get a deflection or crashing the net looking to pounce on a rebound. Rarely is goalie beat clean like they were back then.

As for not more goals just for there sake of more goals. Trying to re-create the goal scoring chances of the 1980s (to the extent that it can be) is not creating more goals for the sake or more goals. Its creating a situation where goals can be scored from anywhere in the offensive zone. But creating a ton more PPs is creating more goals for the sake of more goals. Post lockout the overwhelming majority of the goal upswing was from PP goals not an increase in ES offense. Which puts way too much control over the outcome of a game on the judgement of NHL officials. Something I really have no interest in.