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Around the NHL – Part XL - Mod post page 249

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Watching two Vezina finalists go from getting lit up in to stingy and vice versa between Igor and Markstrom makes me wonder if @Machinehead is right about goalies. They're very dependent on outside circumstances. When Markstrom was playing a low event defensive series people were saying he was actually better than Shesterkin now he's getting lit up. Igor had the first series like that and then this series he's playing a more defensive series.
 
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SnowblindNYR said:
Watching two Vezina winners go from getting lit up in to stingy and vice versa between Igor and Markstrom makes me wonder if @Machinehead is right about goalies. They're very dependent on outside circumstances. When Markstrom was playing a low event defensive series people were saying he was actually better than Shesterkin now he's getting lit up. Igor had the first series like that and then this series he's playing a more defensive series.
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The main problem I have with goalies (and paying goalies in particular) is that Louis Domingue is as close to Igor Shesterkin as Zibanejad is to Sidney Crosby.
 
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Machinehead said:
The main problem I have with goalies (and paying goalies in particular) is that Louis Domingue is as close to Igor Shesterkin as Zibanejad is to Sidney Crosby.
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but if a touch of slapstick with your goalieing is what you want theres none better than Mike Smith
 
SnowblindNYR said:
Watching two Vezina winners go from getting lit up in to stingy and vice versa between Igor and Markstrom makes me wonder if @Machinehead is right about goalies. They're very dependent on outside circumstances. When Markstrom was playing a low event defensive series people were saying he was actually better than Shesterkin now he's getting lit up. Igor had the first series like that and then this series he's playing a more defensive series.
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Igor had a bad two games, right after being ran by Carter. He very well could've just been injured. He's definitely back in regular season form.
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Since I'm from Vancouver I've seen a lot of Markstrom and he has always been a headcase. One of my drunk uncle's least favorite players of all time. He has always been so inconsistent, gives up absolutely backbreaking goals. Plays the puck to opponents and gets scored on in ugly fashion. Gave up goals on the first shot of the game maybe more than any other goalie in the league. Markstrom is like what Georgiev would be if he were 6'6" and got to play as a starter.
 
ArPanet said:
but if a touch of slapstick with your goalieing is what you want theres none better than Mike Smith
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Mike Smith is actually a pretty good value buy. He's saved goals 5 out of the last 7 years.

All you should ever expect out of a goaltender is giving up fewer goals than you were supposed to. If you need more than that, spend on improving your team rather than spending on goaltending.
 
Machinehead said:
Where do you think Zibanejad ranks among forwards?
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I'm pretty sure I get what your argument is, there are very few goalies who make the NHL compared to players. So any goalie in the NHL, even a backup is one of the top 64 goalie on the planet. Some AHL/KHL goalies are in the top 100, whereas 100th ranked forwards are great NHL players.

But I don't think it scales linearly like that. If you look at their WAR and such there is a massive difference between goalies. Didn't Shesterkin have the best WAR of any player in the league this season?
 
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Hockey is so dirty man. Back to back nights of goalies getting intentionally ran and Pens fans still crying about a flukey errant elbow that gave Crosby a headache.
 
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That was the most 50/50 I can't tell if that was a flagrant malicious boarding penalty or Smith selling a call hard. Probably a bit of both. Should be a great topic on the main boards to break the server.
 
WojtekWolski86 said:
That was the most 50/50 I can't tell if that was a flagrant malicious boarding penalty or Smith selling a call hard. Probably a bit of both. Should be a great topic on the main boards to break the server.
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You can't hit the goalie, even softly.
Sure Lucic at least slowed down, but it was a dumb play, he meant to make contact, and the 5 is deserved
 
mike14 said:
You can't hit the goalie, even softly.
Sure Lucic at least slowed down, but it was a dumb play, he meant to make contact, and the 5 is deserved
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The 5 and game is deserved.
Goalie pads aren’t designed for contact, they’re designed for stopping a small piece of rubber.
 
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EdJovanovski said:
I'm pretty sure I get what your argument is, there are very few goalies who make the NHL compared to players. So any goalie in the NHL, even a backup is one of the top 64 goalie on the planet. Some AHL/KHL goalies are in the top 100, whereas 100th ranked forwards are great NHL players.

But I don't think it scales linearly like that. If you look at their WAR and such there is a massive difference between goalies. Didn't Shesterkin have the best WAR of any player in the league this season?
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WAR isn't all that sustainable season to season for goalies.

Shesterkin is probably among the select few but even then, it's violently inconsistent series to series.

You could say that about anybody, really. Players run hot and cold despite always hearing it from the "why isn't Kreider Eric Lindros every night?" crowd. The problem is that goalies don't have 17 other guys if they go cold.

Your superstar goalie isn't less likely to have a series where he shits the bed versus Joe Schmoe who's a third stringer somewhere.

Of course, good goaltending isn't bad. The last two playoffs, Vasilevskiy has saved a goal every two games, which is a pretty good rate, but also the Lightning are consistently better than their opponents. You can't just play bad and rely on goaltending.

I'd rather be a good team with a 2 WAR goaltender than a bad team with an 8 WAR goaltender and in a hard cap league, you probably have to choose one of those. Or just cheat like Tampa did. I totally endorse that.
 
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While I'm on the subject, you'd be hard pressed to find a goaltending stat Jaroslav Halak isn't top 5 in since like 2007. Why doesn't anybody care?

Poor Jaro Halak :(
 
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Machinehead said:
I'd rather be a good team with a 2 WAR goaltender than a bad team with an 8 WAR goaltender and in a hard cap league, you probably have to choose one of those. Or just cheat like Tampa did. I totally endorse that.
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I’ve been arguing this for years. Having Hank was a blessing and a curse. He was always the best goalie, but in limited samples he was usually not significantly better than his opponent and it’s not reasonable to expect him to ever be twice as good as his opponent (who was typically making half his salary or less).

Shesty is on a good deal right now. This team needs to win before he gets paid more. Simple as that.
 
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