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JoesuffP

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Feb 3, 2016
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norrisnick said:
None of those guys got 8 years after their ELC. They got high bridges then even higher 3rd contracts.

Closest is Brady, but he almost proves the point I'm making. He signed 7 x $8.2M. If he signed a 4 year bridge he sure as shit wouldn't be signing for just $8.2M next offseason when he'd be UFA. But Ottawa has him at $8.2M for 4 more seasons when on the market he'd have half the league tripping over themselves to give him $10M+.


Seider not breaking 50 points has nothing to do with Seider and everything to do with Lalonde.
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I wouldn’t be stoked about paying him that 8.2M all those years and just now being market value and he’s going to get his 10M anyways. You saved what? 2M the last 3 years and overpaid him for 4 years
 
OgeeOgelthorpe

OgeeOgelthorpe

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Axel Sandy Pelikan said:
Eh, we're approaching a tipping point one way or another.

Either

A) The cap resumes a rocket ascent and we're looking at a 95-100M cap sooner rather than later and the psychological barrier of a $10M contract goes away and you start seeing a lot more of them

or

B) Rookies are going to continue to get the Tim Stutzle level deal and it's not cheap anymore, it's just a UFA contract.

The 8 year deal is still informed a little bit for fans by the Roman Josi deal where Nashville got a Norris level D for 6 years for 500k less annually than the Wings are playing Ben Chiarot or Colorado got 6 years of Nathan MacKinnon at 6M

But mathematically, if you could get Raymond at 3x6 and then say he kicks ass and gets 8x10 at the end of that. You're talking 68M over 8 years or the same as an 8x8.5M deal.

The only way I'm dying on the 8 year contract hill for Raymond and Seider is if I think the cap is gonna go banana bread boom boom in the next couple years and their agents decide to rake me over the coals for 12M if they keep developing.
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There are still too many deadbeat NHL teams for the cap to skyrocket too much. The best player in the NHL made it to game 7 of the finals and most of Canada didn't seem to give a shit when you look at the TV ratings.

The league's cup winner and finalist from last year is bottom 10 in league revenue year over year.

If the NHL can move 2 of Buffalo, Winnipeg or Ottawa to viable markets to increase their profits, and find a way to get the average person to give a shit about hockey in Miami then maybe we'll see the cap start climbing drastically.
 
norrisnick

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
30,558
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Axel Sandy Pelikan said:
Eh, we're approaching a tipping point one way or another.

Either

A) The cap resumes a rocket ascent and we're looking at a 95-100M cap sooner rather than later and the psychological barrier of a $10M contract goes away and you start seeing a lot more of them

or

B) Rookies are going to continue to get the Tim Stutzle level deal and it's not cheap anymore, it's just a UFA contract.

The 8 year deal is still informed a little bit for fans by the Roman Josi deal where Nashville got a Norris level D for 6 years for 500k less annually than the Wings are playing Ben Chiarot or Colorado got 6 years of Nathan MacKinnon at 6M

But mathematically, if you could get Raymond at 3x6 and then say he kicks ass and gets 8x10 at the end of that. You're talking 68M over 8 years or the same as an 8x8.5M deal.

The only way I'm dying on the 8 year contract hill for Raymond and Seider is if I think the cap is gonna go banana bread boom boom in the next couple years and their agents decide to rake me over the coals for 12M if they keep developing.
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The overall dollar amount is irrelevant to everyone but Chris Ilitch and who gives a shit about him? The trick with a pair of 3x$6M bridges and they hit and bump up to $10M is that you're locked into $8M in raises for players you already have rather than having $3-4M free to add someone else during your compete window.
 
HisNoodliness

HisNoodliness

Good things come to those who wait
Jun 29, 2014
3,862
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JoesuffP said:
From watching hockey the last decade these killer team friendly deals have only come from guys who nobody thought much of and became something special. Braden Point, Kucherov etc. On the other hand the list of high end draft picks that signed long term deals that crippled their franchise for years is a long one and even the ones where the player ends up being good you never got really good value out of those contracts at any point despite over paying them severely for the first 2-3 years. Both Tkuchuks, Dhalin, Matthews, Marner etc. you paid top dollar for those guys anyways when do they become steals? Such high risk for such a low reward and that’s is if everything pans out perfectly. Players agents laughing their way to the bank at this new trend
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I do think it's funny that you say the team friendly deal came from under-evaluated players and then cited Kucherov and Point. The two guys that lead the way in Tampa for the friendly deals were Stamkos and Hedman, 1st and 2nd overall picks that were well touted and had already performed quite well at the times of those deals. That set a culture of taking less in Tampa and that's why Kucherov, Point etc followed suit. It's hard to demand $11 million when 60 goal, captain Stamkos is making $8.5 mil.

The flip side is that we've seen Dubas talk about how the Tavares contract made negotiations with Matthews and Marner so much harder. He couldn't justify making them take a discount when they were outplaying a guy on their team making $11 mil.

So one big reason that I want to get Seider and Raymond signed, and at low dollar amounts, it's that I want to try to establish that same sort of ceiling on our contracts. If we can get them on 8.5 mil deals, even if the cap has gone up a ton, we'll be well positioned to argue down every contract that we negotiate. Versus if we bridge them now, they get $12 mil in 3 years, that's what we're going to end up paying any other good players that we get.
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe

OgeeOgelthorpe

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HisNoodliness said:
I do think it's funny that you say the team friendly deal came from under-evaluated players and then cited Kucherov and Point. The two guys that lead the way in Tampa for the friendly deals were Stamkos and Hedman, 1st and 2nd overall picks that were well touted and had already performed quite well at the times of those deals. That set a culture of taking less in Tampa and that's why Kucherov, Point etc followed suit. It's hard to demand $11 million when 60 goal, captain Stamkos is making $8.5 mil.

The flip side is that we've seen Dubas talk about how the Tavares contract made negotiations with Matthews and Marner so much harder. He couldn't justify making them take a discount when they were outplaying a guy on their team making $11 mil.

So one big reason that I want to get Seider and Raymond signed, and at low dollar amounts, it's that I want to try to establish that same sort of ceiling on our contracts. If we can get them on 8.5 mil deals, even if the cap has gone up a ton, we'll be well positioned to argue down every contract that we negotiate. Versus if we bridge them now, they get $12 mil in 3 years, that's what we're going to end up paying any other good players that we get.
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Well, Konecny got 8.75 and Brock Faber got 8.5 per season. It’ll be a miracle to get either below 8.5 now.
 
Jersey Fan 12

Jersey Fan 12

Positive Vibes
Nov 20, 2006
6,896
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Run the Jewels said:
Not sure if this fits here, but former Red Wing Brendan Perlini has a YouTube channel and he's been posting info about the NHL. This video is about the unwritten rules of the NHL locker room.

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Just looked up his statistics. Did he really play over 250 NHL games?
 
jaster

jaster

7/16" hollow or bust
Jun 8, 2007
13,593
9,135
Henkka said:
Pretty much he did. 262 career games, 50 goals. And was good on those Chicago days.

Don't know what happened after than when he totally busted.
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He didn’t bust, he just was never very good. Had offensive ability, but not good or consistent enough to overcome his poor play without the puck and outside of the O zone. His overall game was never better than “meh” at the NHL level.
 
FabricDetails

FabricDetails

HF still in need of automated text analytics
Mar 30, 2009
8,187
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Yikes... I'm 4/5 on this and I only remembered the 1 for the obvious reason. This is what happens when you no longer Fantasy Hockey.
 
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StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
27,930
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Well, Konecny got 8.75 and Brock Faber got 8.5 per season. It’ll be a miracle to get either below 8.5 now.
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Konecny would be ufa after the season so not an ideal comp. Faber yes. As are the contracts for Sanderson and power that were signed last summer but don’t take effect until this upcoming season.

Stutzle, Byfield, Lundell are guys from raymonds draft that have signed for term.
 
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saska sault

saska sault

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Jun 5, 2010
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Someone help me out here... I don't follow other teams prospects very closely. This whole Michkov and Demidov hype... everyone is claiming these guys are sure fire superstars, bound to be top 5 players with multiple 100 pt seasons. I don't remember players drafted 5 and 8 getting this kind of hype? The Russia factor was at play but still. If they are that great, they go higher regardless no?
 
Henkka

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
32,062
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saska sault said:
Someone help me out here... I don't follow other teams prospects very closely. This whole Michkov and Demidov hype... everyone is claiming these guys are sure fire superstars, bound to be top 5 players with multiple 100 pt seasons. I don't remember players drafted 5 and 8 getting this kind of hype? The Russia factor was at play but still. If they are that great, they go higher regardless no?
Click to expand...

Michkov kind of dropped. He could still be equal talent, or maybe better than Bedard. The skill is still there.

Demidov, don't believe he is anywhere on that level like Michkov.
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe

OgeeOgelthorpe

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jaster said:
Welcome to Edmonton, Stan.
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I'd have given an offer sheet to Holloway as a 3rd/4th line guy that might put up 2nd/3rd line tweener numbers at some point. He would be a better fit than Fischer or Motte.

Bustberg is like a less physical Rasmus Ristolainen. The guy is pure chaos right now but for a 2nd or 3rd round pick he's worth a gamble, and if it weren't for that log jam on D I wouldn't mind him as a 4-6 guy. He shouldn't get anymore than 3 mil a season so St. Louis might regret this one.
 
Frk It

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,666
15,400
saska sault said:
Someone help me out here... I don't follow other teams prospects very closely. This whole Michkov and Demidov hype... everyone is claiming these guys are sure fire superstars, bound to be top 5 players with multiple 100 pt seasons. I don't remember players drafted 5 and 8 getting this kind of hype? The Russia factor was at play but still. If they are that great, they go higher regardless no?
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If you listened to prospect-oriented/scouting podcasts prior to the last 2 drafts, there was a decent mix of opinions on both of them.

If you are listening to the fan bases that drafted them, of course that’s what you’re going to get.

You usually get this to an extent any time a highly rated player slides on draft day. Most of us had our heads pretty in the clouds when we drafted Zadina.
 
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jkutswings

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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Frk It said:
Most of us had our heads pretty in the clouds when we drafted Zadina.
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1f9sri.jpg
 
saska sault

saska sault

Registered User
Jun 5, 2010
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San Jose taking on Ceci plus a 3rd for Emberson. Ceci only has 1 year left so not exactly comparable to the Walman deal that everyone loves to mention but a nice move by the Sharks. I'm sure this will stir up some more discussion on the future considerations we are waiting for.
 
minimal

minimal

Registered User
Apr 12, 2024
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saska sault said:
San Jose taking on Ceci plus a 3rd for Emberson. Ceci only has 1 year left so not exactly comparable to the Walman deal that everyone loves to mention but a nice move by the Sharks. I'm sure this will stir up some more discussion on the future considerations we are waiting for.
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I think the safe assumption at this point is that Steve was clearing cap to try to land a big fish in FA.
 
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