Around the League Thread | The one where the NHL once again is the worst.

[God]

One more thought on top of this.

If I was party to failing to report a sexual assault in my workplace, I would be fired without question.

If I did the work and learned from my mistakes and evolved as a human being because of it, there is still no question in my mind that my employer would never, ever, hire me again. Should I be able to go and get a job doing something else? Sure. But I would never be able to work where I had.

And that should be applied to these people. In my opinion.

Well said. And I felt the same way about the Mitchell Miller stuff - yeah, maybe he has changed. Maybe he has learned. But he's free to go and do any other job. It's not like Miller is a can't miss hockey talent, and Bowman is also not some incredible hockey executive.

In the same situation, the rest of us would have to find jobs elsewhere. The fact that Bowman can get a job in the NHL again in some capacity just continues the OBC nonsense that got him the job in the first place.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Careful, if you call him out for his objectively bad opinions the next logical step for him is to claim he's being canceled by the coastal elite

so there was this fringe indie rock musician who in the late 2000s/early 2010s blew up in that little cottage industry to the level of winning pitchfork’s album of the year, back when they still predominantly covered white guy guitar-oriented indie rock. at this pt that is a very lucrative, if niche, career where you fill mid-sized theatres, make bank as a main stage festival act, and eat residuals licensing your songs for audi commercials.

then he got canceled for being a serial sexual predator and, get this, he rebranded as a MAGA guy and even was eventially spotted at the january 6 insurrection.

but of course the right wing doesn’t give a f*** about wimpy keyboard and guitars tunes that make sly velvet underground references and he probably is working in an office somewhere converting his liberal arts degree into something tangible and no one knows who he is but he’s a middle class white guy and he eats.

am i talking about seravalli here or the three blackhawks guys? i don’t even know anymore.

 

[valkynax]

Well said. And I felt the same way about the Mitchell Miller stuff - yeah, maybe he has changed. Maybe he has learned. But he's free to go and do any other job. It's not like Miller is a can't miss hockey talent, and Bowman is also not some incredible hockey executive.

In the same situation, the rest of us would have to find jobs elsewhere. The fact that Bowman can get a job in the NHL again in some capacity just continues the OBC nonsense that got him the job in the first place.

I find Seravelli's fanatical dedication to shed himself of any and all credibility to be mildly amusing. This season has been quite an eye opener as he showed his true colors, as a despicable spineless shill with zero moral integrity and completely devoid of shame.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Detroit is so mid. Mid every where. Top to bottom management to coaches to players to prospects. Mid mid mid

 

[pitseleh]

so there was this fringe indie rock musician who in the late 2000s/early 2010s blew up in that little cottage industry to the level of winning pitchfork’s album of the year, back when they still predominantly covered white guy guitar-oriented indie rock. at this pt that is a very lucrative, if niche, career where you fill mid-sized theatres, make bank as a main stage festival act, and eat residuals licensing your songs for audi commercials.

then he got canceled for being a serial sexual predator and, get this, he rebranded as a MAGA guy and even was eventially spotted at the january 6 insurrection.

but of course the right wing doesn’t give a f*** about wimpy keyboard and guitars tunes that make sly velvet underground references and he probably is working in an office somewhere converting his liberal arts degree into something tangible and no one knows who he is but he’s a middle class white guy and he eats.

am i talking about seravalli here or the three blackhawks guys? i don’t even know anymore.

Had to look up who this was. He was always a douche so in hindsight totally unsurprising.

 

[God]

so there was this fringe indie rock musician who in the late 2000s/early 2010s blew up in that little cottage industry to the level of winning pitchfork’s album of the year, back when they still predominantly covered white guy guitar-oriented indie rock. at this pt that is a very lucrative, if niche, career where you fill mid-sized theatres, make bank as a main stage festival act, and eat residuals licensing your songs for audi commercials.

then he got canceled for being a serial sexual predator and, get this, he rebranded as a MAGA guy and even was eventially spotted at the january 6 insurrection.

but of course the right wing doesn’t give a f*** about wimpy keyboard and guitars tunes that make sly velvet underground references and he probably is working in an office somewhere converting his liberal arts degree into something tangible and no one knows who he is but he’s a middle class white guy and he eats.

am i talking about seravalli here or the three blackhawks guys? i don’t even know anymore.

I never liked his music and after reading the wikipedia article, he seems like one of those guys who's always been able to get away with bullshit.

Ariel's parents encouraged him to pursue a career in visual arts rather than music. He said that "with music I had no discernible skills", whereas with drawing, they reportedly thought he was "going to be the next Picasso, and I believed them and I got better."[2] According to Linda, she wanted him to pursue a career in acting: "Acting coaches would come to me and say, 'He's the only kid in that age group who can speak to a girl."[10] He characterized himself as "maladjusted" as a child.[14]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Pink#cite_note-Griffey-15

In his view, grunge and alternative rock bands marked the end of the forward progress of popular music.[3] "After that, my listening was totally retro. My mind was closing itself off from the rest of the planet."[10]

When he became the opening act for Animal Collective in 2004, he decided to form a band. His performances were not well-received ("People boo me everywhere. They don't even hide their contempt"). He attributed that to his "not being [a] very good" musician and to his recordings' not being meant to be performed live. "The dudes in my band don't get paid, so I can't really crack the whip and make them learn the songs. They just came along so they could travel."[34]

In April, he sabotaged his performance at the Coachella music festival by causing feedback with his microphone and refusing to sing; he then left the stage and apologized to the crowd.[43] He later explained that the group had "set up in a new configuration" without consulting him first and that the "whole point of that action was not that I was unstable or anything ... I was hammering the point that I could embarrass the f*** out of them if they didn't listen to me and that this was not a democracy, this was a police state."[44]

Pink admitted that one of his tactics with interviewers is to talk so much that the other person has no opportunity to ask a question. He resents interviews and fame, explaining "I'd like to get by without making a fool of myself, running my mouth all the time. It's not helping me."[13] He also believes that some publications quote him out of context for clickbait, and that generally, "the media lies to us all the time."[13] In a 2012 interview, when asked if he interacted with his Wikipedia page, Pink responded: "I tried to intervene very early on and my moderator [sic] said 'I think you should check your sources,' and I was like 'You're right. You're right. Who knows about Ariel Pink more than you do? You're right, you're absolutely right.'"[97]

Probably one of my most hated characters is the idiot who plays devil's advocate and fools people into thinking he's thoughtful and intelligent.

 

[LandfiII]

I never liked his music and after reading the wikipedia article, he seems like one of those guys who's always been able to get away with bullshit.







Probably one of my most hated characters is the idiot who plays devil's advocate and fools people into thinking he's thoughtful and intelligent.

Who are the obvious worst offenders of the idiot playing devil's advocate fooling people thing?

 

[God]

Who are the obvious worst offenders of the idiot playing devil's advocate fooling people thing?

Russell Brand comes to mind.

 

[VanJack]

Not to get political, but I don’t see it as weird or surprising at all that a conservative government/population/region/whatever would support giving public money to wealthy private company, while a “leftier” one would find that distasteful. IME, that tracks like 100%.

100 percent.....the term 'corporate welfare bums' isn't a peculiarly Canadian term.

It always amazes me that when it comes to sports arenas and other superfluous Taj Mahal's for professional athletes, the wealthy corporate owners expect the taxpayers to step up time and time again.

And if they fail to do so, they threaten to pack up their marbles and leave town. And often they do bolt, usually to a more 'right wing' jurisdiction where they're more willing to blow public money on glitz and glitter stadiums, rather than more 'mundane' issues like water, sewage treatment, homelessness, the environment and public transportation.

 

[Hit the post]

Russell Brand comes to mind.

I'm thinking Joe Rogan is worse. Unlike Rogan, I think most see Brand as nothing more than "entertainment".

 

[God]

I'm thinking Joe Rogan is worse. Unlike Rogan, doubt too many see Brand as nothing more than "entertainment".

I don't like Joe Rogan, but he strikes me as more of a simple ape asking questions instead of an arrogant idiot taking a position because it's against conventional wisdom. And my impression is that his opinion lies pretty much with the last "expert" he's talked to on the matter...which isn't great when he's getting sucked into the grifter hole regarding podcast guests.

 

[Hit the post]

I don't like Joe Rogan, but he strikes me as more of a simple ape asking questions instead of an arrogant idiot taking a position because it's against conventional wisdom. And my impression is that his opinion lies pretty much with the last "expert" he's talked to on the matter...which isn't great when he's getting sucked into the grifter hole regarding podcast guests.

I will give "credit" for Brand not trying to claim any money from Katy Perry in their divorce settlement.

 

[StreetHawk]

Detroit is so mid. Mid every where. Top to bottom management to coaches to players to prospects. Mid mid mid

Not sure how 20 and 28 points gets you $4.5 mill over 2 years but whatever for Det.... Their remaining prospects aside from Evindsson do not wow anyone.. And Seider and Raymond are good to great but not elite talents. so, yeah, very mid all around.

 

[vancityluongo]

Who are the obvious worst offenders of the idiot playing devil's advocate fooling people thing?

elon musk

ainec

 

[Canucks LB]

I’m really trying to hold it in because I don’t wanna be mean.

And I don’t wanna talk shit on other boards because I don’t feel like getting infracted.

But I’m seeing some Toronto fans that are saying that JT Miller is not a #2 guy on a contender coming off an absolutely ridiculous playoffs, shutting down McDavid, and being the force pretty much every other game.

It drives me absolutely bonkers

 

[bossram]

Detroit is so mid. Mid every where. Top to bottom management to coaches to players to prospects. Mid mid mid

Ssshhhh. Don't question the #Yzerplan. The horde of Wings fans will descend upon us if you so much as whisper that Yzerman isn't a GM god.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Who are the obvious worst offenders of the idiot playing devil's advocate fooling people thing?

Piers Morgan lmao

 

[mriswith]

Detroit is so mid. Mid every where. Top to bottom management to coaches to players to prospects. Mid mid mid

Should have tanked in 2023 instead of rushing the rebuild. Never exit a rebuild without a young 1C.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Not sure how 20 and 28 points gets you $4.5 mill over 2 years but whatever for Det.... Their remaining prospects aside from Evindsson do not wow anyone.. And Seider and Raymond are good to great but not elite talents. so, yeah, very mid all around.

The hand wringing over Hronek was absolutely pathetic. He would’ve been their #1 defenseman had he remained on Detroit and the amount of shit they lay on their former players is hilarious.

It’s especially hilarious because the pick they gained from us was used to select ASP, who is literally a prospect version of Hronek, with no guarantees that he even gets to the level Hronek is at right now. “But but but Hronek cost us tew much no need top 4 D make too much man” just so they can give Holl, Chiarot, and whatever plug a multi year multi million deal.

Now the same detractors are out full force with us signing Sprong for near league minimum. Meanwhile they have 3-4 forwards who literally fit the same profile as him being paid triple that amount.

Signing a top 4 RHD in his prime tho?? Nahhhh too expensive. Not like we missed the playoffs for 8 straight years!

Ssshhhh. Don't question the #Yzerplan. The horde of Wings fans will descend upon us if you so much as whisper that Yzerman isn't a GM god.

hey they can be the next Buffalo Sabres. Have their guys cook in mediocrity long enough till a contending team swoops in and acquires them at a bargain and watch em become contributing factors enroute to a cup. #yzerplan, we do the developing, you reap the rewards.

 

[StreetHawk]

Should have tanked in 2023 instead of rushing the rebuild. Never exit a rebuild without a young 1C.

Detroit had 80 points in 22/23. That's 20 ahead of the bottom 4 teams that season. They would have had to shed more guys before the season. They moved Bertuzzi/Hronek at the TDL, but maybe they should have done that in the prior off-season than wait it out like they did. Or not signed Husso. And any other move designed to improve the roster.

Even, then that might not have been enough to turn 10 wins into 10 pure losses.

The Wings bottom out seasons were 2018-2021. 5th worst in 2018, 4th worst in 2019, worst in 2020, 5th worst in 2021 (tied with CBS but had the tie breaker record). Wings finished 8th worst in 22, 9th worst in 23 and 15th worst in 24.

They didn't get any lottery luck but when you are sitting at 4/5th worst, you really can't bank on it. 2020, would you trade Raymond for Stutzle/Byfield/Laf? Yes to the C's as they are more valuable position wise. Even though the talent of Raymond is pretty much on par with them.

Those 4 drafts 18-21, did Det get the best guy at their spot (when compared to what was still on the board around that range?). 2018 no, but that is on Holland. 2019, Seider is more valuable than Cozens/Boldy, 2020 Raymond is the best guy IMO, unless you want Lundell, who is a big body 2C, but his offensive numbers are not where you like them to be yet but the Defensive play is there. 2021, Edvinsson has developed the way they want. Wyatt Johnston went like 15 spots later, but that was a strange draft with the OHL not playing. They traded up to take Cossa over Wallstedt. Will see if that was the right call. Right now, edge to Wallstedt.

Wings had a bunch of extra 2nds and 3rds in those drafts. That's the make/break for the wings and Yzerman. If some of those kids don't hit, they will remain mid for a while.

2019 - 2nds - Tuomisto D, Mastrosimone W, Johansen D, 3rd Grewe W
2020 - 2nds - Wallinder D, Niederbach W, Hanas W, 3rd Sebrano D (Dealt in Dcat trade), Viro D
2021 - 2nds - Buium D, 3rd Mazur W
2023 draft they added a lot of extra picks.
1st - ASP D, 2nd Augustine G, Gibson D, Cleveland D, Dower-Nilsson W

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

am i missing something? why do ppl care so much about whether yzerman sucks?

it’s not like he’s edmonton or calgary or toronto or chicago or boston or messier or… i just don’t see a reason to gaf

 

[Vector]

am i missing something? why do ppl care so much about whether yzerman sucks?

it’s not like he’s edmonton or calgary or toronto or chicago or boston or messier or… i just don’t see a reason to gaf

Personally, I was vocally skeptical of his moves two off-seasons ago and took a lot of heat. Said the same thing with the Hronek trade and took some heat. Didn't like that he doubled down and did the same thing the next off-season and took some heat.

So it's purely me being able to say "I think I was right all along".

 

[StreetHawk]

Personally, I was vocally skeptical of his moves two off-seasons ago and took a lot of heat. Said the same thing with the Hronek trade and took some heat. Didn't like that he doubled down and did the same thing the next off-season and took some heat.

So it's purely me being able to say "I think I was right all along".

2022 off-season was after the 1st years of both Seider and Raymond, his top picks. I didn't think after 2022 that the Wings were going to be terrible in 23 or 24. Not as bad as Chicago, SJ, Ana, CBJ have been the past 2 seasons. Did not think they were going to end up as bad as those 4 clubs ended up.

At some point once your premium prospects arrive in the NHL, you don't want to leave them in chaos. Probably why I thought Ana would have done more than just bring in Dum on D and Fabbri up front. Basically replace Shatty, Henrique, Sif with those guys.

I didn't like who Yzerman brought in, but that's also the reality of trying to turn the corner is that you have to overpay to get guys to sign.

Was Yzerman going to replicate the TB success? He lacks that signature key trade like the Serg/Drouin deal, the McDonaugh move, the Bishop trade that really did bolster the Lightning. Cernak, Sergachev, Mcdonaugh comig in for Drouin, Howden, Hajek, Bishop and other prospects/picks were a major difference maker for TB.
With the scouts, has Detroit hit on anyone like TB did with Kuch, Point, Cirelli and such. Not yet.
And he doesn't have elite talent like Stamkos, Hedman, Vasi on the roster already. Best is Larkin.

I thought he would have a bit more patience since he was taking over an emtyp cupboard. I mean, look at the 2018 and older picks Det make Zadina, Veleno, Svech, Chloworski, etc. or at least made a more significant trade.

 

[Vector]

2022 off-season was after the 1st years of both Seider and Raymond, his top picks. I didn't think after 2022 that the Wings were going to be terrible in 23 or 24. Not as bad as Chicago, SJ, Ana, CBJ have been the past 2 seasons. Did not think they were going to end up as bad as those 4 clubs ended up.

At some point once your premium prospects arrive in the NHL, you don't want to leave them in chaos. Probably why I thought Ana would have done more than just bring in Dum on D and Fabbri up front. Basically replace Shatty, Henrique, Sif with those guys.

I didn't like who Yzerman brought in, but that's also the reality of trying to turn the corner is that you have to overpay to get guys to sign.

Was Yzerman going to replicate the TB success? He lacks that signature key trade like the Serg/Drouin deal, the McDonaugh move, the Bishop trade that really did bolster the Lightning. Cernak, Sergachev, Mcdonaugh comig in for Drouin, Howden, Hajek, Bishop and other prospects/picks were a major difference maker for TB.
With the scouts, has Detroit hit on anyone like TB did with Kuch, Point, Cirelli and such. Not yet.
And he doesn't have elite talent like Stamkos, Hedman, Vasi on the roster already. Best is Larkin.

I thought he would have a bit more patience since he was taking over an emtyp cupboard. I mean, look at the 2018 and older picks Det make Zadina, Veleno, Svech, Chloworski, etc. or at least made a more significant trade.

The whole thing was spending a lot of money in two off-seasons on bad UFA targets. 2022, I liked the targets more (except Chiarot) but questioned the fit and necessity on adding them. Ultimately didn't move the needle at all and their young players didn't progress. Last season he did the exact same thing when signed free agents only I didn't like any of the higher priced targets as fits for the team and REALLY didn't like the trade acquisitions. I commend the strategy of surrounding your young players with good veterans and trying to stay competitive. They were declared a playoff favourite and fans wanted to crown Yzerman for middling moves.

The thing is, I think Yzerman is fine as a GM. The contracts he's signed UFAs to won't handicap them and I usually like their draft targets. He's trying to get them competitive while slowly integrating younger players and build a proper core. But his body of work in the last three off-season has been unimpressive and, unless the young players all step up this season, they look to be another middling tweener-playoff team.

 

[Huggy43]

I’m really trying to hold it in because I don’t wanna be mean.

And I don’t wanna talk shit on other boards because I don’t feel like getting infracted.

But I’m seeing some Toronto fans that are saying that JT Miller is not a #2 guy on a contender coming off an absolutely ridiculous playoffs, shutting down McDavid, and being the force pretty much every other game.

It drives me absolutely bonkers

Their opinion is useless on that subject.
Hard to know something when they don’t have personal experience to pull from.