Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Yep, i'ts pretty f***ing sweet watching this organization tank it's own value. Can't wait till Turcotte Vilardi JAD and co are traded for pennies on the dollar.
Around the League Thread part V
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kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I agree someone is going to need to move to the wing at least temporarily. We have Kopitar, Byfield, Turcotte and Danault and the fourth line isn't an option for any of them. I assume the long-term plan is for Danualt to move to a 3C role once Byfield and Turcotte are ready, but that still leaves Kopitar, Byfield and Turcotte as three guys looking at two spots. Only question I have is how much of a lock is it that Turcotte's the one who moves to the wing? I'm wondering if Byfield on Kopitar's wing might make more sense in the near short term.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
But what did people expect to happen?
Go back and look at the posts from this board for every one of the draft picks as well as the Danault signing, the reaction to each one was overwhelmingly positive, so it’s not fair to “Monday Morning” Blake here.
They obviously should have drafted atleast one defenseman or winger or spent the FA money on something other than a center but Rob Blake did his best Matt Millen impression loading up on 1 position and here we are.
FSL KINGS
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I don't see the issue. Slide Turcotte to wing until there's an injury or Kopi's contract runs out. Problem solved.
King's got a D last year. Byram would have been nice, but AVS snagged him at 4. When drafting Turcotte they had no idea they'd win the lotto & get Byfield. Load up then even things out with trades.
Danault is a monster signing especially with Kopi starting to slip.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
I agree that Danault has been a great player for the Kings this season, so it’s hard to criticize that one. He has been a better transaction than any of the picks this far.
As I’ve said before it’s easier said than done with “just play them at the wing”, I think it’s a lazy take and one that historically in the NHL has not been an automatic thing by any stretch. If you take centers with #5 and #11 picks and move them to the wing those picks are likely going to be viewed as mistakes.
No team should should ever use four consecutive first round picks on one position. It just makes it to difficult to construct a complete and balanced roster.
Schrute farms
LA Kings: new GM wanted -- inquire within
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i can't blame them for picking a center 4 straight years. the 4th year was Byfield -- you don't pass that up. In hindsight, sure Turc gets changed....but you can't do that unless you have a Delaurian and an old friend with big crazy white hair. why do people keep saying this 4 year C crap?!? Are you suggesting we don't pick Byfield? Because he's THE franchise for the rest of the decade.
Yes Danault made that situation worse. But i'm not passing up Danualt if he wants to come. We need a young, big LHD. We need a young Goalie. Those can be traded for with the young. cheap, good Center prospects. You pick the best play when rebuilding and adjust accordingly.
Yes Danault made that situation worse. But i'm not passing up Danualt if he wants to come. We need a young, big LHD. We need a young Goalie. Those can be traded for with the young. cheap, good Center prospects. You pick the best play when rebuilding and adjust accordingly.
apocalypse
Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
I think you bring him up and find a fit for him. Wait until he gets hot in Ontario. You gotta bring players up at just the right time, I think this current regime knows nothing about.
apocalypse
Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
Danault is the ideal third line center, as are his wingers. I think Turcotte is going to be better than Danault. The org should wait and see about Turcotte. Give him some good linemates to play with.
The Kings didn't use 4 consecutive first round picks on center. Bjornfot is a first round pick between Turcotte and Byfield.
Turcotte is more than capable of success on the wing since he is good at coming out with the puck in board battles.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
You are correct, I forgot about Bjornfot. But still 4 centers over 4 years is excessive. Especially when you had a $10m a year center signed
As for the 2nd part, less than 3 years after taking him as a Top 5 pick center we are moving him to wing for his abilities to win board battles? It just seems like the Kings have done everything in their power to make sure this kid isn't a scorer in the NHL, a good little checker (the Kings way). Rushed up to soon from multiple levels, position change, not being given prime scoring opportunities in the AHL, 4th line in the NHL and now healthy scratch (wtf?) in the NHL. Now the expectation is to convert a player who hasn't exactly set the world on fire as a scorer at levels above the USHL is going to switch positions and somehow be a top 6 winger in the NHL? Turcotte's intangibles are also lessened in a role as winger, which was one of the appealing parts about drafting him that high. People think I hate Turcotte, I don't, I just hate that an organization that has had a hell of a time finding scorers for the past 15 years used a Top 5 pick on someone without a 1st line ceiling and then proceeded to make the ceiling even lower with completely inept development decisions by the good old boys Blakey, Nelly and Muzz. I don't believe this player will ever live up to the spot where he was drafted, but it doesn't mean he couldn't have been a valuable 2nd or 3rd line asset starting this year or next had he been developed properly as a center. I'll keep beating the dead horse but imagine Turcotte coming into camp this season coming off a dominant offensive season and much bigger and stronger from living in the weight room.
Vilardi I kind of get a bit more, his skating is to much of a liability to play center, he doesn't possess the intangibles and all-around game of Turcotte but is more skilled and probably has a better chance to be a top 6 winger than Turcotte but also has zero upside to be a bottom six center. But it seems that the Kings organization has soured on Gabe and he himself doesn't seem to excited about the position change.
And no, it doesn't mean you pass on Byfield but it also doesn't mean you hold onto all these guys and let their potential as players or as trade assets get lessened by having so much of one thing to the point where it limits playing opportunities for guys you used significant draft capital on.
Danault has been a great player for the Kings this year, his signing has been fine but the GM should have reacted to what it did to his roster. Same thing with the QB pick.You say that trading for goaltending, defense or wing assets can be done by trading for center prospects. I don't disagree, but why hasn't Blake done it yet? When they took QB they could have made one of these trades, yet they chose not to. QB was drafted 16 months ago, the Kings found out they were getting the #2 pick and presumably QB 18 months ago. Has the trade value of Vilardi, Turcotte and JAD gone up or down in that time-frame? It's gone down for all of them, and that is a mistake by the GM in not trading surplus assets for needed ones. You could do the same thing with Danault, who was signed 6 months ago, why in 6 months have no moves been made to address the holes on the roster and instead we are having guys switch positions and lose trade value?
Maybe this is corrected with a trade with the Coyotes and our young lineup is more balanced, I don't know but as of now it seems stupid that over the past 18 months they didn't offer up atleast one of Turcotte, Vilardi or Kupari for a comparable player that filled a need on the team, either at the NHL level or in the prospect pool. And I didn't even mention the forgotten man, JAD. This is another guy they used a pretty good pick on, not #5 or #11 but still a 2nd round pick that should probably be up playing in the league but the Kings have no room because of center depth, while at the same time Olli Maata, Craig Wolanin, Martin Frk, Lias Anderson, TJ Tynan and Austin Strand have all played games at D or wing for a team that is trying to make the playoffs.
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funky
Build around Byfield, not the vets
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Going into Turcotte’s draft it was rumored we wanted a defenseman. He got picked just before we went to the podium.
At the time Vilardi was injured and a massive ?.
Kupari was a late pick .
So Turcotte filled a huge future need.
Vilardi gets better and we win the lottery and have Byfield gifted to us.
Blake then lands a 200 ft elite center in UFA for free.
I can’t really see where Blake went wrong picking her card with information he had at hand at the time of the pick and without hindsight of winning a draft lottery, having Vilardi heal up, and landing Danault for free
At the time Vilardi was injured and a massive ?.
Kupari was a late pick .
So Turcotte filled a huge future need.
Vilardi gets better and we win the lottery and have Byfield gifted to us.
Blake then lands a 200 ft elite center in UFA for free.
I can’t really see where Blake went wrong picking her card with information he had at hand at the time of the pick and without hindsight of winning a draft lottery, having Vilardi heal up, and landing Danault for free
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I fully support demoting Vilardi and think it was the best move for the team and hopefully the player given on ice performance at the time. That said, at the time the pick was made I thought Blake absolutely stole Vilardi in the draft and thought it was one of his better picks. Hard to say how it'd turn out if he didn't have the back problems but it's hard to second guess that pick. I won't second guess Turcotte either, he was good value at the time at five.
I'm a big proponent of picking BPA regardless of position, outside of maybe goaltending depending on how many you already have in the system and if you have development room for them. Turcotte was a good selection at the time, maybe it pans out, maybe it doesn't. Even at fifth overall, nothing a guarantee with prospects.
I'm a big proponent of picking BPA regardless of position, outside of maybe goaltending depending on how many you already have in the system and if you have development room for them. Turcotte was a good selection at the time, maybe it pans out, maybe it doesn't. Even at fifth overall, nothing a guarantee with prospects.
It's far too early to monday morning QB about our recent draft picks and what they can do. The draft is completely different than it was even 5 years ago, players don't just step in and make an impact like they used to. How many players from the last 3 drafts are absolutely different makers for their teams right now and are making an impact? You might get to 10 players with that list.
It's 2022 and Bjornfot has the 6th most games played out of his entire draft. How many players in the last 3 drafts are bonafide stars? Seider, Raymond for sure. I'd put Zegras in that mix. Hoglander is up there, Lundell has had a nice start. That's a huge contrast from 5 years ago when high picks were some of the best players on their teams in a couple of years. Out of those same three drafts, Hoglander is the only one outside the first round that has done anything special at all. Arty is 2nd in points among all 2nd rounders taken since 2019. From the third round on there have been less than 100 games combined on NHL from those 450 players, from only 14 of them.
If you go to other teams' boards the critiques are even worse than around here, you would think every single GM in the league sucks. Here is something to ponder though - there are only a few teams with two guys from the 2019 draft who are lineup regulars and the Kings are one of them. Seeing your team as having one of the top-rated prospect pools then not seeing results within a couple of years can be maddening, but the story of those same prospects is only in chapter 1. Gotta let stuff play out for a while.
It's 2022 and Bjornfot has the 6th most games played out of his entire draft. How many players in the last 3 drafts are bonafide stars? Seider, Raymond for sure. I'd put Zegras in that mix. Hoglander is up there, Lundell has had a nice start. That's a huge contrast from 5 years ago when high picks were some of the best players on their teams in a couple of years. Out of those same three drafts, Hoglander is the only one outside the first round that has done anything special at all. Arty is 2nd in points among all 2nd rounders taken since 2019. From the third round on there have been less than 100 games combined on NHL from those 450 players, from only 14 of them.
If you go to other teams' boards the critiques are even worse than around here, you would think every single GM in the league sucks. Here is something to ponder though - there are only a few teams with two guys from the 2019 draft who are lineup regulars and the Kings are one of them. Seeing your team as having one of the top-rated prospect pools then not seeing results within a couple of years can be maddening, but the story of those same prospects is only in chapter 1. Gotta let stuff play out for a while.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
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tny760
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ooh. tough one.
he's a duck, but i like zegras a bit too much to shame him here but i'll at least add it to the "bench disappointment" archive
Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
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Comcast won't rebuild because they don't want to lose money and attendance. Meanwhile...
Good for the fans boycotting, just like Buffalo, f*** these teams if they continue to live in fantasyland.
Good for the fans boycotting, just like Buffalo, f*** these teams if they continue to live in fantasyland.
apocalypse
Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
I still think Turc will be a great 2nd center. Give him more time in the AHL in a scoring role and let him thrive. In other news, I think Byfield should be sent back down after this road trip.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Byfield going back to the AHL puts him way behind schedule on development for a player of his ability. There are some things he is going to need to fight through at the NHL level and Blake and TMac are going to have to give him that chance, not play him 8 minutes a night. Because if they do send him back, whenever he returns, whether it's this season or next those obstacles are still going to be there. He needs to be around players like Kopitar and Danault to learn how to be a great NHL center, not with AAAA players like Martin Frk and TJ Tynan. Not to mention he is probably the second most purely talented player on the roster for a team that is once again struggling to score goals. He needs to be up for good.
As for Turcotte, there are just no spots, and even if there were, his play since being drafted does not scream 2nd line center, wonderful character player, lots of grit, runs through walls for his teammates, great defensive zone game sense (needs to get stronger though), will probably wear a letter in the league but if a 2nd line center is going to be a reality there has to start being some offensive production. I know people will accuse me of being a "stats watcher" but if he's going to be a 2nd line center there has to be a point where he starts producing offensively for the teams he is playing for. Most of the guys who are 2nd line centers in the NHL showed more offense in their age 18, 19 and 20 seasons. Not all of it his fault, some very questionable decisions from the organization, but at this point I think he projects more as a quality energy player who can definitely chip in some offense rather than a guy who is counted on for it in a 2nd line role. But I know my opinion is in the minority here, and has been for the 2 years since I first saw him play, I hope I am wrong but we will see.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Byfield should be evaluated in segments of two or three games and if he has a bad stretch, send him down. If he has some good stretches, give him more responsibility. He's clearly got the size and skill to play at this level now, awareness and pro level IQ is still on a steep learning curve. Give him some rope to figure it out but not to much.
apocalypse
Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
I don't believe there is any kind of a development track. I think if you pressure a prospect at the NHL level, they will hit their floor and not top out. We are looking for Byfield to top out and become a big skill guy. He can only do that if he plays in a minimal pressure farm team system. If you keep him up with the Kings, he will get discouraged and shrink away. Give them a taste of the big leagues and let them go and figure it out in Ontario. That's what it should be. This regime has proven that they're having trouble developing players. Kempe is an exception, but I really don't trust the regime with our big prospects. Let them play in Ontario.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Respectfully disagree.
I prefer to use historical precedent on how other teams have successfully handled similar players to Byfield and Turcotte rather than trust Blakey, Nelly and Muzz. And generally the way the majority of teams have handled these types of players is pretty clearly defined. NHL at 18 for QB, a 6'4 #2 pick who had a dominating season in the OHL before he was drafted. The norm in handling a player like this is not to have him play a bunch of games in the minors or back in junior but to have him in the NHL. Look at the history of #1 and #2 OA picks and how they are handled. For Turcotte the norm would have been 2 years of college and then turn pro (in most cases quickly to the NHL). In the last few years we have seen Makar, Hughes, Norris, Werenski, Boeser, McAvoy, Miller, Caufield, York, Boldy, Knight, Newhook, Sanderson, Holloway, Power, Beniers, Johnson and Brisson as 1st round picks who all returned to college for their sophomore years. How many other teams chose to sign a player (who might have been 175 lbs at the time) to put him in the AHL for the entire season as a teenager? There have been a few, how have those players turned out vs. the ones I listed?
Why should we trust Rob Blake and his volleyball buddies way of doing it more than how most of the rest of the league has done it? Is Blake smarter than everyone else?
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