Around the League Thread part V

[BringTheReign]

For some reason Kadri gives me Marchand vibes. I know the odds are tremendously against that deal panning out, but Kadri just has that “F the world, I’m gonna prove them wrong” energy after years of people talking about him underachieving or hurting his team. Marchand has been basically ageless and has improved into his 30s, not impossible.

 

[YP44]

Seems like a latteral move except getting older and losing two assets along with it. Not sure if Calgary got better.

kinda how I feel. I think flames fans can boast improved depth down the middle which is key for Sutter teams. I am not a Johnny hockey fan so I am more in the camp they are better in the short term going into this year then the roster the ended last season with, but it is close.

For some reason Kadri gives me Marchand vibes. I know the odds are tremendously against that deal panning out, but Kadri just has that “F the world, I’m gonna prove them wrong” energy after years of people talking about him underachieving or hurting his team.

As soon as someone tells him he wont' he will

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't know that they're better but I do think Treleving made some pretty good chicken soup out of what was happening.

Yes, they got older, but he got some probably-best-comparable-players back in Gaudreau for Huberdeau and Tkachuk for Kadri plus adding to the D.

That's a GM that knows he's not getting a chance to rebuild and is going for it, they might not win (that's not a colorado slayer, can you imagine what happens once Huberdeau starts getting pushed around the guy lost his mind over Durzi), but he's kept a comparable squad together which is an achievement inside itself given what he was facing. Not a bad piece of work considering.

...but he knows he's toast in a year or two.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Assuming Cgy ownership gave the option to rebuild. They were ready to pay Gaudreau and Tkachuk if they wanted to stay. They paid others instead.

 

[TruKingFan]

BT was more likely told by ownership to “fix this f*****g mess and we are not “rebuilding” after 2 home-grown stars decided to shit on you or you’re gone today“. Remains to be seen if it works but odds are not in his favor.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Remains to be seen if it works but odds are not in his favor.

In the long term, probably not, but Flames look pretty solid at the moment. Considering the cards he was dealt, I think Treliving did a great job.

An actual “re-tool not rebuild.” Even if only for 2-3 seasons.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Calgary's GM did an excellent job given the hand he was dealt. It still will hurt in 3 years or so at which time, their window is closed and cap won't matter.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

BT was more likely told by ownership to “fix this f*****g mess and we are not “rebuilding” after 2 home-grown stars decided to shit on you or you’re gone today“. Remains to be seen if it works but odds are not in his favor.

Totally agree. I think he did a great job saving his own ass and keeping CGY's current 'window' open another year or two. But the short-term prognosis leads to the black hole. Yet, gutsy moves and he did all he could do in the environment he was in.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I struggle to call what Cgy did a re-tool. I mean, it is, but it was a player forced re-tool. It's not like the Flames chose to go in a different direction because Gaudreau and Tkachuk were never going to get it done. Their first choice was keeping them, even if they were never going to get it done.

Similar to the Kings in 18-19. They very clearly had zero intention of rebuilding, but the players essentially forced it to happen. The Flames played well enough for management to say, ok, let's keep trying. The Kings were so bad, and nobody was leaving as a free agent, or had the trade value of Tkachuk, they scrapped the whole idea and went in a bottom 5 direction.

However, initially signing Kovalchuk was the Kings version of, ok, let's keep trying. The Flames are in a similar situation as the Kings in 18-19. Huberdeau and Kadri had 17-18 Kopitar type seasons last year. If they can repeat that, the Flames are sitting pretty. If they're their more normal selves, it's still good, but they'll need more help. Which is what the Kings didn't get in 18-19.

 

[funky]

The thing I wonder is two star players could have got paid massive amounts to stay with the only team they know but couldn’t wait to leave. Calgary is a great place to live in Canada and the team is always competitive.

Why did the players want out so bad ?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Players like having control of where they live and work. Neither went to Calgary voluntarily, and it just may not have grown on them in their time there. Both US born too, so maybe they wanted to "come home", like all those good Canadian boys do.

Teechnically neither went home, but, close enough.

 

[TruKingFan]

In the long term, probably not, but Flames look pretty solid at the moment. Considering the cards he was dealt, I think Treliving did a great job.

An actual “re-tool not rebuild.” Even if only for 2-3 seasons.

Perhaps. Tkachuk/Gaudreau vs. Huberdeau/Kadri. A lateral move at best IMHO. Time will tell.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The thing I wonder is two star players could have got paid massive amounts to stay with the only team they know but couldn’t wait to leave. Calgary is a great place to live in Canada and the team is always competitive.

Why did the players want out so bad ?

Some guys just don't want to be on the Lakers, you know?

Johnny was a bigtime US collegian, and Tkachuk the son of a US hockey legend

 

[TruKingFan]

Totally agree. I think he did a great job saving his own ass and keeping CGY's current 'window' open another year or two. But the short-term prognosis leads to the black hole. Yet, gutsy moves and he did all he could do in the environment he was in.

But shouldn’t he have gone the “blow it up and restart with #1 picks” instead much like some here advocate because signing a 7yr $70M to a 32 yo and a 8yr $10.5M contact to a 30 yo?

The Kings have been excruciated here when they signed Kopi/Quick/Doughty to their contracts and all were younger that both these guys. Not to mention they already won a Cup or two.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But shouldn’t he have gone the “blow it up and restart with #1 picks” instead much like some here advocate because signing a 7yr $70M to a 32 yo and a 8yr $10.5M contact to a 30 yo?

The Kings have been excruciated here when they signed Kopi/Quick/Doughty to their contracts and all were younger that both these guys. Not to mention they already won a Cup or two.

Depends on what perspective you're coming from, I'm looking from Treliving's view here

But I also was on board with the Kings trying to extend their window FWIW, especially after career year from Kopitar.

If I were a Calgary fan I'd probably be happy, but from the outside looking in, I see a team headed for the black hole

 

[DoktorJeep]

Calgary still looks good to me. Down the middle and on D, they are deeper than any other Pacific team. Some of the shine is off of Markstrom because of his second round performance, but he was a top regular season goalie and a work horse.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Calgary still looks good to me. Down the middle and on D, they are deeper than any other Pacific team. Some of the shine is off of Markstrom because of his second round performance, but he was a top regular season goalie and a work horse.

They are deep and a Sutter team is hard to beat when they're all going.

I think they'll have scoring issues, guys aren't going to repeat career years, and they're not going to have record-breaking health, either. That's all. It's not that they're not a good team.

I also don't think they have the high-end talent to beat the other contenders, they're the 'worst' of the best by far.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Depends on what perspective you're coming from, I'm looking from Treliving's view here

But I also was on board with the Kings trying to extend their window FWIW, especially after career year from Kopitar.

If I were a Calgary fan I'd probably be happy, but from the outside looking in, I see a team headed for the black hole

Yeah, I know the "context" argument bothers people, but it does matter. Huberdeau had just as many points as Gaudreau last year. Weegar is top pairing d-man. You don't blow it up when you've got those pieces. So you go after Kadri and hope he's got some juice left and bank on Markstrom holding up his end of the bargain too. The black hole looms for sure, but there's a reason "damn the torpedoes" exists as an expression.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Weegar still needs to be paid next season. Probably means Backlund is gone. So there goes their center depth when he does go.

 

[Martyros]

Remember when people said Monahan was already just as good as kopitar if not better only after his 2nd year? good times.

 

[Schmooley]

Remember when people said Monahan was already just as good as kopitar if not better only after his 2nd year? good times.

I dont remember that but I do remember how good he was early on. Its a shame when injuries can get the best of a player with such a bright future.

 

[YP44]

Assuming Cgy ownership gave the option to rebuild. They were ready to pay Gaudreau and Tkachuk if they wanted to stay. They paid others instead.

no chance ownership gave option for rebuild. Flames ownership is all about getting into the playoffs and then seeing what happens.

Remember when people said Monahan was already just as good as kopitar if not better only after his 2nd year? good times.

I don't re-call that but I do remember flames fans pushing how good Johnny and Monny tandem were together..ironic they both are out the same year and the return for them was negative 1 first round pick. If someone would have said that was the outcome when the deals were signed I would have laughed.

 

[Martyros]

there were trade proposal threads where flames fans would never trade him for Kopitar because he was going to be better than him.

 

[YP44]

Calgary still looks good to me. Down the middle and on D, they are deeper than any other Pacific team. Some of the shine is off of Markstrom because of his second round performance, but he was a top regular season goalie and a work horse.

markstrom is easily a top what 7 goalie? With 4-7 being up for debate, so maybe even top 5.

Oilers dominated and the flames really struggled to keep their guy to the outside (something the kings D did well). Was really surprising for a Sutter team.

I think the Flames have the best or second best goalie in the division (demko is debatable). Have the best 1-3 centers as far as two way play goes (if Edmonton spread McDavid-Leon-RNH that is scary, but not best two way guys). The flames wingers are their downfall even with Johnny H.

Kadri vs Kane.....sign me up. Odd there are only 3 battle of alberta's this year.

there were trade proposal threads where flames fans would never trade him for Kopitar because he was going to be better than him.

i do remember that, i thought it was more of an age and contract thing than thinking he would be better than Kopitar. I believe you though, f*** is kopitar underrated.

Was debating whose RR 2.0 jersey to get...has to be Kopitar now right?

 

[Herby]

Calgary still looks good to me. Down the middle and on D, they are deeper than any other Pacific team. Some of the shine is off of Markstrom because of his second round performance, but he was a top regular season goalie and a work horse.

Yeah I think people are selling Calgary a bit short here. They got a bit overhyped last year (only team that could challenge the Avs) but right now they have to be right up there as a favorite to win the division.