Around the League Thread part V

[DryIslandBartender]

my favorite are the people who shit on kopitar but have this absurd hard on for mike richards

What does Richards have to do with Kopitar’s career?

 

[Rick Knickleback]

What does Richards have to do with Kopitar’s career?

I think he's referring to some people who have expressed their desire that Kopitar played with more of an edge like old time hockey stud Mike Richards and stop being such a Euro-pansy, etc.

Here's the thing: Richards was great! We probably don't beat Vancouver in 2012 without him and as invisible as he was for much of the 2014 run, he did score some clutch goals in the playoffs (the one in game 7 v ANA comes to mind immediately).

He was also out of the league after a decade due directly and indirectly to his style of play, his last two seasons being sad, wet farts. Meanwhile, Kopitar is still playing, putting up .85ppg, and leading his team in ways both quantifiable and not. I guess it depends on your definition of stud, but I know who I'd take to build a team around. I bet most Philly fans would agree too, as would HoF voters.

FTR: I'm hoping Richie is brought back to Staples one night to honor all his contributions to those years. He was an integral part of it.

 

[Mats26]

Ty Smith would of be a nice target for LD. Needs some work but he is still young.

 

[bland]

my favorite are the people who shit on kopitar but have this absurd hard on for mike richards

Neither has their name on the Cup without the either.

Richards deserves the specific praise of coming into a good but soft team and being a huge part of why they elevated to a champion. He will always be cherished for being a difference maker if not a part of the foundation.

Kopitar has always been a terrific player. But his team needed a counterpoint aggressive style in order to balance out his calm and steadiness. That should be readily apparent to all that have seen the Kings play since Richards left and Danault arrived.

There are guys you build statues of, and then there are cult heroes. Some prefer one or the other.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ty Smith would of be a nice target for LD. Needs some work but he is still young.

 

[raswilliam]

my favorite are the people who shit on kopitar but have this absurd hard on for mike richards

me too

 

[HookKing]

Kopitar's point totals are reflective of the style of game he has chosen to play. He wasn't sentenced to two way wingers. He wasn't asked or forced to play pessimistic, safety-first hockey, he does so by choice. Its who he is.

He is a 90 point player who chose a 60 point style. Offensive wingers have to adapt to him, and most don't have the mindset to do so.

Anze likes to play with Iafallo. One way cheaters, which are 90% of offensive wingers, leave far too many gaps in coverage and it negates all the hard work he does down low. Anze wants safe, conscientious, reliable wingers. That's all there is to it.

More rewriting history. Have we forgotten Terry Murray -- who "pushed and prodded him to learn how to play a full, 200-foot game." He didn't come into the league that way he he had defense first beat into him.

 

[cyclones22]

Crawford let the boys freewheel all they wanted while he was in charge. Of course he was pretty much a garbage coach by then.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kopitar was nearly PPG as a 20 year old in his sophomore season.

He would have eclipsed 90pts throughout most of his career if he never had to take on a Selke style game. Kopitar was always supremely gifted offensively.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Crawford let the boys freewheel all they wanted while he was in charge. Of course he was pretty much a garbage coach by then.

And of course Mr. Build From The Net Out hired the guy that forced boring hockey. Kopitar had to be forced into being a system player. Just like Byfield has to be forced into it. Turcotte. Kaliyev. Kupari. System, system, system. I guess maybe if Byfield was getting ice time, maybe we wouldn't care if the offense wasn't there. At least he'd be playing into a boring 200 foot player.

Except they ended up winning before, so we don't really care how it happened. It's even hard to imagine the conversations we would have today if 2012 doesn't go down the way it did. One of those alternate history scenarios that just make you go, get outta here, that's crazy.

 

[DoktorJeep]

And of course Mr. Build From The Net Out hired the guy that forced boring hockey. Kopitar had to be forced into being a system player. Just like Byfield has to be forced into it. Turcotte. Kaliyev. Kupari. System, system, system. I guess maybe if Byfield was getting ice time, maybe we wouldn't care if the offense wasn't there. At least he'd be playing into a boring 200 foot player.

Except they ended up winning before, so we don't really care how it happened. It's even hard to imagine the conversations we would have today if 2012 doesn't go down the way it did. One of those alternate history scenarios that just make you go, get outta here, that's crazy.

Your narrative as usual makes no sense because you ignore inconvenient facts. Before hiring the boring coach, a no defense screamer was in charge. And then an intense mind games master was brought in. Lombardi hired the right guy for each stage of the roster.

And of course you have nothing to say about the current coach who was hired to install an offensive system, which no one brings up anymore because it didn’t happen. Instead all the speed on the roster is used to play the 1-3-1. And the team is great defensively while struggling to score goals. But the team made the playoffs so no one cares how it happened.

In ten years, you’ll be telling us that the Kings never won any cups. You’ll go from revisionist historian to full on moon landing never happened conspirator.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Your narrative as usual makes no sense because you ignore inconvenient facts. Before hiring the boring coach, a no defense screamer was in charge. And then an intense mind games master was brought in. Lombardi hired the right guy for each stage of the roster.

And of course you have nothing to say about the current coach who was hired to install an offensive system, which no one brings up anymore because it didn’t happen. Instead all the speed on the roster is used to play the 1-3-1. And the team is great defensively while struggling to score goals. But the team made the playoffs so no one cares how it happened.

In ten years, you’ll be telling us that the Kings never won any cups. You’ll go from revisionist historian to full on moon landing never happened conspirator.

Crawford was the right guy? Did anyone really like that hire when it happened? Does that mean Cloutier was the right goalie at the right time?

Danault, Kempe, have had their best seasons under TM. Doughty was on pace for his best numbers last year. Iafallo has had his best years. Moore.

As I've said, and obviously it's not my original thought, but winning cures all. Win, and nothing else matters. You can miss badly on a 4th overall pick, and nobody holds it against you. Same way if the Kings win any time soon, and Turcotte isn't part of it, we'll never mention Turcotte again. Until they win though, Turcotte will be held up as a prime example of a GM that doesn't know what he's doing.

My narrative is that I wish we could go back to 2010, 2011, something like that, and re-live the sense of angst that I am almost positive had to have existed at the time. Ryan Smyth was an answer at some point. He wasn't acquired just to kill time until the unavailable better player became available. Terry Murray was the coach of a contender. Sutter wasn't part of a grand plan. If you don't think Murray is a Cup coach, you fire him in the summer of 2011. You don't wait until the team is barely hanging on to make a change.

We don't give Blake the same leeway that we've ended up giving Lombardi, because we don't like him. Robitaille even less. We don't like the former player nepotism, but always forget that when DL was feeling the heat, he turned to an old friend to save his job. Not some coach he didn't have connections with, but went with the familiar.

It's not that the Kings never won the Cup, it's that it seems like a perfect plan today, but in the moment, it was anything but. How close were they to wasting a 1st rd pick on a guy that scored 9 goals in 84 games? Again, like Smyth, Penner was an answer, and it was failing. Until it wasn't.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Marino has a weird contract. Random dollar amounts every year. He got a 6 year term after 1.5 seasons in the league. Now traded in a camp dump.

And Pittsburgh, even though the smart move is to begin rebuilding today since they haven't gotten out of the 1st rd since 2018, and with the age on that roster, they probably won't get very far soon, but you do have Crosby only once. Might as well through whatever you can at the wall, and maybe you get one more run. But they haven't done much when it matters recently, and this isn't 2014 with a 27 year old Crosby anymore,

 

[King'sPawn]

It was brought up earlier in the thread, but maybe Kings/Kopitar/coaching talk should be taken to the other thread? This one is usually geared towards non-Kings stuff (I admit I erred too, and lost track of what thread I was in).

 

[Brodeur]

Devils have definitely improved this off-season - @Brodeur would be pleased I think.

Yeah, knee jerk reaction is that the trade helps us in the short term. I have some worries in general about trading a 22 year old D. Thought we'd stick with Smith for another year and hope he had a bounceback season. It seemed inevitable that he'd be the odd man out once Luke Hughes signs next spring. I thought drafting Simon Nemec crushed the chances of the Devils re-signing Damon Severson, but after getting Marino it really seems unlikely. We'll see if Severson ends up being a trade chip. Maybe pipe dream scenario is Severson+ for J.T. Miller.

We'll see if Vanecek/Blackwood can give us league average goaltending. It's sad that most Devils fans have lowered expectations after last season's trainwreck in the crease.

Devils were league average-ish is GF but with the 28th ranked PP. Hopefully Andrew Brunette can help that out the power play. Part of it was missing Hughes and Hamilton for large chunks of the season but we were sorely missing a net front guy. Out of desperation, 4th liner Nathan Bastian was used on PP1 for stretches just to be a big body.

2022-23 D:
Graves-Hamilton
Siegenthaler-Severson
B.Smith-Marino

2023-24 D:
Siegenathaler-Hamilton
Hughes-Marino
B.Smith/Bahl/Okhotiuk-Nemec

It'll be risky breaking in two (possibly three) rookie D next season. Hopefully Bahl/Okhotiuk can have a smooth transition with their AHL seasoning. Org seems to like Bahl more, but I've preferred Okhotiuk albeit he's only had a handful of NHL games.

 

[KINGS17]

Crawford was the right guy? Did anyone really like that hire when it happened? Does that mean Cloutier was the right goalie at the right time?

Danault, Kempe, have had their best seasons under TM. Doughty was on pace for his best numbers last year. Iafallo has had his best years. Moore.

As I've said, and obviously it's not my original thought, but winning cures all. Win, and nothing else matters. You can miss badly on a 4th overall pick, and nobody holds it against you. Same way if the Kings win any time soon, and Turcotte isn't part of it, we'll never mention Turcotte again. Until they win though, Turcotte will be held up as a prime example of a GM that doesn't know what he's doing.

My narrative is that I wish we could go back to 2010, 2011, something like that, and re-live the sense of angst that I am almost positive had to have existed at the time. Ryan Smyth was an answer at some point. He wasn't acquired just to kill time until the unavailable better player became available. Terry Murray was the coach of a contender. Sutter wasn't part of a grand plan. If you don't think Murray is a Cup coach, you fire him in the summer of 2011. You don't wait until the team is barely hanging on to make a change.

We don't give Blake the same leeway that we've ended up giving Lombardi, because we don't like him. Robitaille even less. We don't like the former player nepotism, but always forget that when DL was feeling the heat, he turned to an old friend to save his job. Not some coach he didn't have connections with, but went with the familiar.

It's not that the Kings never won the Cup, it's that it seems like a perfect plan today, but in the moment, it was anything but. How close were they to wasting a 1st rd pick on a guy that scored 9 goals in 84 games? Again, like Smyth, Penner was an answer, and it was failing. Until it wasn't.

It was failing until it wasn't? So, in other words it was a huge success and the Kings enjoyed the best three seasons of their entire existence under Lombardi. I am sure that is where you were going with this in your own roundabout way.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yeah, knee jerk reaction is that the trade helps us in the short term. I have some worries in general about trading a 22 year old D. Thought we'd stick with Smith for another year and hope he had a bounceback season. It seemed inevitable that he'd be the odd man out once Luke Hughes signs next spring. I thought drafting Simon Nemec crushed the chances of the Devils re-signing Damon Severson, but after getting Marino it really seems unlikely. We'll see if Severson ends up being a trade chip. Maybe pipe dream scenario is Severson+ for J.T. Miller.

We'll see if Vanecek/Blackwood can give us league average goaltending. It's sad that most Devils fans have lowered expectations after last season's trainwreck in the crease.

Devils were league average-ish is GF but with the 28th ranked PP. Hopefully Andrew Brunette can help that out the power play. Part of it was missing Hughes and Hamilton for large chunks of the season but we were sorely missing a net front guy. Out of desperation, 4th liner Nathan Bastian was used on PP1 for stretches just to be a big body.

2022-23 D:
Graves-Hamilton
Siegenthaler-Severson
B.Smith-Marino

2023-24 D:
Siegenathaler-Hamilton
Hughes-Marino
B.Smith/Bahl/Okhotiuk-Nemec

It'll be risky breaking in two (possibly three) rookie D next season. Hopefully Bahl/Okhotiuk can have a smooth transition with their AHL seasoning. Org seems to like Bahl more, but I've preferred Okhotiuk albeit he's only had a handful of NHL games.

$15m tied up in 29 and 31 year old big name free agents, before ever sniffing the playoffs. 3rd worst record, or 2nd worst without Sea, over the last 4 years. Crazy how teams try to be better.

It was failing until it wasn't? So, in other words it was a huge success and the Kings enjoyed the best three seasons of their entire existence under Lombardi. I am sure that is where you were going with this in your own roundabout way.

Yes. And they were 17th overall, and 9th in the West, the day before Carter got here. That's 60 games into their true contender year. That's the plan working as planned, I guess.

 

[Statto]

So does anyone have the cap space to give Kadri his desired pay day?

 

[Cianide]

I think he's referring to some people who have expressed their desire that Kopitar played with more of an edge like old time hockey stud Mike Richards and stop being such a Euro-pansy, etc.

Here's the thing: Richards was great! We probably don't beat Vancouver in 2012 without him and as invisible as he was for much of the 2014 run, he did score some clutch goals in the playoffs (the one in game 7 v ANA comes to mind immediately).

He was also out of the league after a decade due directly and indirectly to his style of play, his last two seasons being sad, wet farts. Meanwhile, Kopitar is still playing, putting up .85ppg, and leading his team in ways both quantifiable and not. I guess it depends on your definition of stud, but I know who I'd take to build a team around. I bet most Philly fans would agree too, as would HoF voters.

FTR: I'm hoping Richie is brought back to Staples one night to honor all his contributions to those years. He was an integral part of it.

Kopitar actually showed flashes of a top 6 forward this last season. Let's hope he builds on that.

 

[KINGS17]

$15m tied up in 29 and 31 year old big name free agents, before ever sniffing the playoffs. 3rd worst record, or 2nd worst without Sea, over the last 4 years. Crazy how teams try to be better.



Yes. And they were 17th overall, and 9th in the West, the day before Carter got here. That's 60 games into their true contender year. That's the plan working as planned, I guess.

That's a GM doing critical evaluation of a situation, making the necessary changes, and being prepared to take advantage of opportunities as they presented themselves.

Again I will say, Lombardi presided over the three most successful seasons in the entire history of the franchise, but you keep failing to mention that fact.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Crawford was the right guy? Did anyone really like that hire when it happened? Does that mean Cloutier was the right goalie at the right time?

Danault, Kempe, have had their best seasons under TM. Doughty was on pace for his best numbers last year. Iafallo has had his best years. Moore.

As I've said, and obviously it's not my original thought, but winning cures all. Win, and nothing else matters. You can miss badly on a 4th overall pick, and nobody holds it against you. Same way if the Kings win any time soon, and Turcotte isn't part of it, we'll never mention Turcotte again. Until they win though, Turcotte will be held up as a prime example of a GM that doesn't know what he's doing.

My narrative is that I wish we could go back to 2010, 2011, something like that, and re-live the sense of angst that I am almost positive had to have existed at the time. Ryan Smyth was an answer at some point. He wasn't acquired just to kill time until the unavailable better player became available. Terry Murray was the coach of a contender. Sutter wasn't part of a grand plan. If you don't think Murray is a Cup coach, you fire him in the summer of 2011. You don't wait until the team is barely hanging on to make a change.

We don't give Blake the same leeway that we've ended up giving Lombardi, because we don't like him. Robitaille even less. We don't like the former player nepotism, but always forget that when DL was feeling the heat, he turned to an old friend to save his job. Not some coach he didn't have connections with, but went with the familiar.

It's not that the Kings never won the Cup, it's that it seems like a perfect plan today, but in the moment, it was anything but. How close were they to wasting a 1st rd pick on a guy that scored 9 goals in 84 games? Again, like Smyth, Penner was an answer, and it was failing. Until it wasn't.

Winning cures all except when you let a nest of snakes fester within. My alternative history looks something like…

No statues or jerseys in the rafter for BLuc. Instead, Tim L. hands out plaques and a Rolex during a couple pre game ceremonies. Subsequently the leadership positions are staffed with people who at least graduated high school.

Kings win 2 cups in three years.

Dean sobers up and realizes the roster is no longer competitive. The stupid World Cup of hockey doesn’t happen because the nhl goes to the Olympic Games. One of those smart people who was hired wins an argument and the roster is overhauled for speed.

Cue more cups.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Watching Jack casually walk down the street with the Stanley Cup is exactly the illustration of the dude I always thought he was

 

[Stimpythecat]

Glad to see JMFJ has his day with the cup.

 

[Bandit]

Good for him.