Around the League Thread part V

[KINGS17]

Neither has their name on the Cup without the either.

Richards deserves the specific praise of coming into a good but soft team and being a huge part of why they elevated to a champion. He will always be cherished for being a difference maker if not a part of the foundation.

Kopitar has always been a terrific player. But his team needed a counterpoint aggressive style in order to balance out his calm and steadiness. That should be readily apparent to all that have seen the Kings play since Richards left and Danault arrived.

There are guys you build statues of, and then there are cult heroes. Some prefer one or the other.

Kings statues: Gretzky and Robitaille

Kings cult heroes: Williams, Richards, Quick (at least these are a some of mine)

You decide.

 

[ZJames]

Kings statues: Gretzky and Robitaille

Kings cult heroes: Williams, Richards, Quick (at least these are a some of mine)

You decide.

Tough to say. An argument could be made for Marcell Dione, just because of how great of a player he was. You could also make an argument that any combo of Brown/Kopitar/Doughty/Quick deserves a statue as well. Although I think they would probably run out of room pretty darn quick.

 

[Statto]

Tough to say. An argument could be made for Marcell Dione, just because of how great of a player he was. You could also make an argument that any combo of Brown/Kopitar/Doughty/Quick deserves a statue as well. Although I think they would probably run out of room pretty darn quick.

I think you build a single statue of the four of them around the cup. For me it’s the ultimate privilege and for a single player I struggle to justify it. So the four of them in one tribute makes sense because you can equate their contributions fairly easily.

Gretzky you can just about justify because of his wider contributions to the game. I’d actually say Sutter and DL have a case also, again perhaps a joint one for the two of them.
Thats about it.

So three statues in total, one for Gretzky and what he did for hockey. Then two statues to go alongside two cups.

I means, look at Liverpool FC and the titles they have won. Only Bill Shankly has a statue at the ground, a set a of gates are named after Bob Paisley and Sir Kenny Dalglish has a stand named after him. The great managers, not the players, Dalglish do get one if he just played. The club was founded in 1892 and has 19 championships and 6 European Cups… Hockey gets carried away with shirt retirements and statues.

 

[Butch 19]

Kings statues: Gretzky and Robitaille

Kings cult heroes: Williams, Richards, Quick (at least these are a some of mine)

You decide.

I don't get the Richards super love. He played 4 very average years in LA.

 

[BigKing]

I don't get the Richards super love. He played 4 very average years in LA.

He was vital to the 2012 team. He was crushing the 2013 playoffs until the concussion. Play obviously fell off in '14 but he still got the assist on Gaborik's GTG in Game 1 against Anaheim.

It ended horribly but his three primary seasons with the Kings are also the best three year stretch in team history. I say all of this as a guy that was vocal on here that he needed to be amnestied after '14.

 

[bland]

I don't get the Richards super love. He played 4 very average years in LA.

With Mike Richards: The "core" was 10-1 in playoff series

Without Mike Richards: 0-5

He was THE catalyst. A serial winner who was instrumental in making average teams in LA and Philly championship caliber - both of which failed to recapture that level without him.

He deserves more love than he gets, certainly as much as the homegrowns who contributed to the run.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

I don't get the Richards super love. He played 4 very average years in LA.

Richards wasn't just part of the foundation--he was a cornerstone of that amazing three-year run, along with Kopitar, Quick, and Doughty. He came out smoking in 2012's regular season before Sean Bergenheim cheap-shotted him and concussed him. Even after missing 10 games or so, he was 2nd only to Kopitar in points. He was shaky the rest of that season and then was money in the playoffs. We don't win in 2012 without him.

Stud in the 2013 playoffs. Fell off in 2014 a bit but certainly had his moments when it counted. Check out the read, steal, and dish to Williams for the OT winner in game 1 of the finals.

His greasy game 7 goal against the Ducks pretty much won that game.

 

[BringTheReign]

I feel like Richards gets a ton of love around here, but maybe that's just me...

It kind of sucks because I feel like had he been bought out within the cap compliance window things might've actually ended more positively for him. It could've been looked at as a necessary evil of the cap system rather than the continual issues ending with the termination. I'm glad that in the few media spots he's done he seems to be doing better these days.

Richards wasn't just part of the foundation--he was a cornerstone of that amazing three-year run, along with Kopitar, Quick, and Doughty. He came out smoking in 2012's regular season before Sean Bergenheim cheap-shotted him and concussed him. Even after missing 10 games or so, he was 2nd only to Kopitar in points. He was shaky the rest of that season and then was money in the playoffs. We don't win in 2012 without him.

Stud in the 2013 playoffs. Fell off in 2014 a bit but certainly had his moments when it counted. Check out the read, steal, and dish to Williams for the OT winner in game 1 of the finals.

His greasy game 7 goal against the Ducks pretty much won that game.

Being at this game is one of my greatest memories as a fan. I was sitting behind one of the nets up above and it was incredible watching that play develop. What a read by Richards with the other Ranger going off for a change.

 

[cyclones22]

Richards was a heart and soul player. Even in 2014 when he was essentially on the 4th line, he was on the ice in some do or die situations and came up huge. That's why there's love for the guy. His presence alone gave the rest of his teammates confidence as well. Especially game 1 vs Vancouver. Richards and Quick dominated that game. I'm not saying you're one of those guys, but I remember a chorus of folks here who conspiracy theory-d their way to thinking the Kings would've won the Cup in 2012 w/o Richards had the Kings kept Schenn and Simmonds. Now that was ridiculous.

 

[Statto]

I don't get the Richards super love. He played 4 very average years in LA.

I guess you didn’t watch it all that much then….

 

[Stimpythecat]

Richards deserves all the accolades he got.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

I remember a chorus of folks here who conspiracy theory-d their way to thinking the Kings would've won the Cup in 2012 w/o Richards had the Kings kept Schenn and Simmonds. Now that was ridiculous.

So that's totally ridiculous, but equally ridiculous is the idea that Richards was the sole reason behind 2012. What about the Voynov call up? The Carter trade? Quick absolutely losing his mind in the playoffs? Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Williams? Playoff Pancakes Penner? Colin Fraser scoring the first goal of the Cup Final? It takes a village to win a cup.

Similarly, far too much is made of the Kings' postseason failings as being failings of character.

The Kings:
Lost in 2010 to the eventual Western Conf Champ
Lost in 2011 when they didn't have Kopitar.
Lost in 2013 the the eventual Cup Champs
Lost in 2016 to the eventual Western Conf Champ
Lost in 2018 to the eventual Wester Conf Champ (getting swept was embarrassing for sure)
Lost in 2022 in 7 games, on the road, to Western Conf semi-finalist with the best player in the world in beast mode.

This is not choking. What series were they favored to win above?

The one obvious failure of character was failing to make the playoffs in 2015, a team that featured both Williams and Richards. S*** happens.

The ret-conning of the team dynamic that elevates some players to "character" guys who "know how to win" and others as "passengers" and "underachievers" etc just irks me. Its people biases and preferences masquerading as hockey knowledge. Nothing wrong with preferring Richards to Kopitar, but let's stop pretending one "knows how to win" and one doesn't.

 

[bland]

So that's totally ridiculous, but equally ridiculous is the idea that Richards was the sole reason behind 2012. What about the Voynov call up? The Carter trade? Quick absolutely losing his mind in the playoffs? Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Williams? Playoff Pancakes Penner? Colin Fraser scoring the first goal of the Cup Final? It takes a village to win a cup.

Similarly, far too much is made of the Kings' postseason failings as being failings of character.

The Kings:
Lost in 2010 to the eventual Western Conf Champ
Lost in 2011 when they didn't have Kopitar.
Lost in 2013 the the eventual Cup Champs
Lost in 2016 to the eventual Western Conf Champ
Lost in 2018 to the eventual Wester Conf Champ (getting swept was embarrassing for sure)
Lost in 2022 in 7 games, on the road, to Western Conf semi-finalist with the best player in the world in beast mode.

This is not choking. What series were they favored to win above?

The one obvious failure of character was failing to make the playoffs in 2015, a team that featured both Williams and Richards. S*** happens.

The ret-conning of the team dynamic that elevates some players to "character" guys who "know how to win" and others as "passengers" and "underachievers" etc just irks me. Its people biases and preferences masquerading as hockey knowledge. Nothing wrong with preferring Richards to Kopitar, but let's stop pretending one "knows how to win" and one doesn't.

Its not retconning, you are just wrong. And aggressively so.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Richards deserves all the accolades he got.

As does Kopitar.

This isn’t a Richards vs Kopitar thing, as much as it is a team construction argument. DL traded for guys like Richards, Williams, Stoll, Greene to show the core how it’s done and that the core guys would take the mantle when it’s their turn.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I feel like Richards is appropriately polarizing.

Short high peak, quick fall apart. Both parties are right, but even in 2014 he had key moments symbolic of his stature as an 'intangibles' guy.

After that some of us, certainly me anyway, held on too long thinking there was no way someone could decline that quickly and he just needed some recovery time, but that shouldn't diminish his prior accomplishments.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I want Kadri to sign somewhere just to get the drama over with. Hopefully he goes east.

 

[cyclones22]

I want Kadri to sign somewhere just to get the drama over with. Hopefully he goes east.

It's crazy that players like him are still out there. When's the last time someone who had his type of season remained unsigned once the UFA window started?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think Kadri is probably waiting on Colorado and wants to remain with them.

 

[YP44]

I want Kadri to sign somewhere just to get the drama over with. Hopefully he goes east.

i hope he signs with the ducks for too much term and money

 

[Stimpythecat]

I think Kadri is probably waiting on Colorado and wants to remain with them.

This is probably it. Waiting on them to clear cap space.

 

[YP44]

I think Kadri is probably waiting on Colorado and wants to remain with them.

maybe he has already signed with the Islanders and Lou just is not going to announce till right before the season starts

 

[Steve Zissou]

Didn't see his parents in there...

 

[Herby]

I feel like Richards is appropriately polarizing.

Short high peak, quick fall apart. Both parties are right, but even in 2014 he had key moments symbolic of his stature as an 'intangibles' guy.

After that some of us, certainly me anyway, held on too long thinking there was no way someone could decline that quickly and he just needed some recovery time, but that shouldn't diminish his prior accomplishments.

Fair assessment. With Richards it’s always about looking at his time with the Kings in 2 parts.

He was a very good player for the Kings in 2012 and 2013, one of the best 2C's in the entire NHL. There is just no way the Kings win the SC in 2012 with either Stoll or 20 year old Schenn as the 2C. I'm not even sure they make the playoffs, to be honest. The intangible stuff can never be proven or disproven, but as a hockey player for those two years he was vitally important to the success of the team, to say that he wasn't is just a bad take.

However, I think many on this forum, even to this day, refuse to admit just how awful and worthless he was in the 2014 run. He was a below replacement player by that point, even the plays people like the bring up, the Girardi play was just an awful play that no NHL d-man should make, whether it's the first pre-season game or OT of the final. He played pretty regularly in 26 playoff games, he wasn't going to not do anything, but I challenge anyone to go back and watch those playoffs and still say the negative plays didn't greatly outnumber the positive ones. To say Richards was a vital part of 2 cup wins is another bad take.

The decision by the Kings to bring him back for 2014-2015 was one of the most short-sighted and awful moves any Kings GM has ever made.

The Kopitar stuff I’ve always found strange, even going back to the cup years many here didn’t really like him. Kopitar and Richards are really not 2 players who should be compared. Kopitar was more Drew Brees and Richards was Matt Ryan.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Starting to get hot in Calgary?

 

[johnjm22]

With Mike Richards: The "core" was 10-1 in playoff series

Without Mike Richards: 0-5

Correlation does not equal causality. The reason for the record difference is obvious.

If you want to look at it that way, I could just as easily say the team was worse after the Richards trade and was on track to miss the playoffs, it wasn't until Carter and Sutter arrived that the team turned around.

He was THE catalyst. A serial winner who was instrumental in making average teams in LA and Philly championship caliber - both of which failed to recapture that level without him.

He deserves more love than he gets, certainly as much as the homegrowns who contributed to the run.

Carter and Sutter were the Catalyst for the Kings.