Around the League Thread | November Rain

HairyKneel

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I think they really need to shut him down for like 2-3 months and let his knee heal, it’s obvious that playing through it is just not doing anything for anyone.

I mean.... he was just shut down for four months. I'm on the be patient train for a bit yet. Some of the diaper tossing is adorable but at the end of the day he needs to produce. May need to move on from him at some point this season if we don't see a serious uptick in his play.
 

Jay26

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Not true for a couple of reasons.

Pettersson, when he's on his game, is like a young Datsyuk in the way he plays both ways, can bury any look he gets, and has incredible vision and hands for passing and stickhandling in a phone booth.

Those aren't skills that just disappear at 25 and never return.

I can't say for sure what's happening and against the Sharks it was really hard to watch how static he was and how often he was hiding from the puck by being the net front presence which he should almost never be. He should want to be the quarterback (or co-quarterback when out there with Hughes). But he looks ginger and slow. It feels like there has to be an injury there, or he's completely bereft of confidence, or battling mental health or etc etc.

But no part of me thinks that we just signed the Loui Eriksson contract X 2. And if you're honest with yourselves, 90% of you don't think so either.

You're just really upset and disappointed to be seeing our young superstar look so mentally defeated and unhappy and I'm not disagreeing with that part, it f***ing sucks.

My girlfriend is just learning about hockey and she was noting that he looked like his skating was laboured and he never moved his feet with the puck after I mentioned how much he's struggling.

So it's obvious that something is wrong, and it's hard to watch. But this isn't an 8 year problem and he's an 8 year solution.

Huberdeau's struggles can be taken more seriously because he moved from a system that worked incredibly well for his preferred style of creating space and then using his superlative vision and 360 degree passing to hit trailing defense man in space to either score themselves or make another pass to someone wide open.

For the record, I don't think Huberdeau is done either. I'm sure I have laughed in a couple of trade proposal threads or whatever, but I think he'll figure it out and be a 75-80 point guy, but will never look worth 10.5 until Calgary will retain like 2.5 on him and he'll go somewhere and thrive. Unless he figures it out there. He's too smart and talented not to.

And Dubois just doesn't seem to love the game. And this isn't a one time thing, this is him leaving a poor taste in the mouths of 3 fan bases.

If Petey is on his 4th team doing this, we can talk about it in 10 years.


Cozens is being killed in that market too, but you're right on him.

They're apparently playing Byram with Power and the two are being ventilated.

I haven't watched a Sabres game yet this year, so I don't know if it's just not working due to similar player builds and limited veteran poise, or if one is cratering the other or what.

But I'm not moving Petey, personally.
It's funny because I'm pretty sure that most here would agree with everything you laid out. What we're pushing back against is the idea that if Pettersson is struggling to this degree he MUST be injured. You've admitted that it could be a confidence/mental thing which is what many of are saying as well. In a lot of cases it IS an injury (and I've said several times I don't doubt that the tendonitis and/or something else is nagging him) but the problem here is the evidence points to it being something else, which, again, is why people are pushing back against that crutch.
 

mossey3535

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Feb 7, 2011
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We played the long game with Boeser because we had to, he simply wasn't tradable.

Other considerations with Boeser were:

he didn't have any trade protection
his father was terminally ill and failing
the team was an unmitigated disaster

Moving him wasn't a particularly urgent matter. letting it play out was pretty logical vs paying to get rid of him

Re Pettersson, something seemed to change last season around the time Kuzmenko was traded and since then (Feb 1st 2024) Pettersson has 9G 26A 35P in 56 GP (incl 13 playoff games last season), which is actually slightly worse than Boeser's P/GP numbers in 21/22

Dealing with this situation is different as there is real urgency in getting to a resolution. This team's best shot at a cup might only be a few years and we simply can't afford to have more than 13% of the cap tied up in a player who is performing at a 2% cap hit level.

I go back and forth on the length of the leash here.

If Rutherford/Alvin see the core problem is simply that Pettersson is suffering from a crisis of confidence that he will work his way out of sooner rather than later, then i think the leash will be long enough to get us to the trade deadline (perhaps longer).

It could be quite short if the actual problem is a fractured relationship, either because of how his contract extension was handled or coaching, or something health related (if the team has doubts about Pettersson being able to remain effective when dealing with a nagging injury). In this scenario, if the right deal came along, Rutherford won't be shy about pulling the trigger.

The looming NTC is obviously a huge factor.

The thing is, I don't think we can get pieces for EP that will replace him. And we need to get a lot back to take advantage of our window.

If you look at this deal, it's for the duration of two windows really. So if as an organization you thought it was a good idea to sign him for that length of time, why are you going against it all of a sudden?

From that perspective it's best for us to act with the long view in mind.
 

Scumbag Frank

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Well well well


Makes you wonder how it worked out so well in his first season with us. Maybe he really does need a Boudreau type system.
Doesn't match the eye test. He's by far the Flames best offensive player in this game and got bumped up from the 4th line to the top 6 cause he was creating so many chances.
Setting up so many prime scoring chances for Flames who have no finish.

Getting huge praise on the panel atm as the best player on the ice
 
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arttk

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I mean.... he was just shut down for four months. I'm on the be patient train for a bit yet. Some of the diaper tossing is adorable but at the end of the day he needs to produce. May need to move on from him at some point this season if we don't see a serious uptick in his play.
I mean it doesn’t look like he is healed so might as well just take him out
 

StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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Makes you wonder how it worked out so well in his first season with us. Maybe he really does need a Boudreau type system.
He's a high skilled guy that excels in a top 2 line role. And realistically, for a weaker club as his overall game is lacking. Don't see him as a TDL pickup for a PO team.

He's likely to head back to the KHL after this season. He's not getting that contract again this upcoming off-season.
 
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WetcoastOrca

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Interesting on Kuzmenko. A lot of Flame fans insisted they robbed Vancouver blind on that trade when in reality his cap hit was a problem for Vancouver. Looks like his bad defensive habits are going to result in another trade.
Too bad as he seems like a really good guy.
 

StreetHawk

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Interesting on Kuzmenko. A lot of Flame fans insisted they robbed Vancouver blind on that trade when in reality his cap hit was a problem for Vancouver. Looks like his bad defensive habits are going to result in another trade.
Too bad as he seems like a really good guy.
To whom? Maybe another weak club takes him for the balance of the season to help the offence, but it won't be for much in return. Like a round 4 or later draft pick at best, since his cap hit is over $5 mill.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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I miss Kuzmenko......and Zadorov and Podkolzin.

Frig i just wanted Mikhayev gone and they blew up the whole Russian contingent. Is someone Ukrainian in our management group?

Now we got Debrusk for 7yrs. Forbort Desharnais tripping over their own feet. Bains gettting knocked around?

The last time Pettersson looked really effective was when the 2 of them were caving teams.
 

bossram

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Case solved.
Anyone with eyes can see his skating is laboured and his mobility is compromised. We've all seen what he's capable of doing in the past.

Whether the injury excuses his current (v bad) level of play is a different question. But there is no question he is dealing with a somewhat significant physical injury/limitation.
 

JT Milker

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Anyone with eyes can see his skating is laboured and his mobility is compromised. We've all seen what he's capable of doing in the past.

Whether the injury excuses his current (v bad) level of play is a different question. But there is no question he is dealing with a somewhat significant physical injury/limitation.
I was just poking fun at using someone that doesn’t watch hockey as a source.

I also don’t think his skating is the issue, and he’s always been a weak skater (regardless of top speed, his edge work/mobility is below NHL average and he’s easy to push around, complete opposite of someone like Hughes).
 

bossram

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I was just poking fun at using someone that doesn’t watch hockey as a source.

I also don’t think his skating is the issue, and he’s always been a weak skater (regardless of top speed, his edge work/mobility is below NHL average and he’s easy to push around, complete opposite of someone like Hughes).
His edge work and strength on his skates has always been bad. His top speed and speed bursts were all at least roughly NHL average though. Harman Dayal found that his frequency of speed bursts is way down compared to past seasons, going through the NHL Edge data. Visually, it is very clear to me he has no "pop" or acceleration in his skating.

Seems like a lower body injury affecting his skating. He said the knee tendonitis is still bothering him. The answer appears pretty clear.
 

Blue and Green

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Just got an email from Sportsnet Plus. Prices going up again on Jan 6th. Standard streaming package will be $25 per month instead of the current $20.
 

SeawaterOnIce

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Just got an email from Sportsnet Plus. Prices going up again on Jan 6th. Standard package will be $25 per month instead of the current $20.

It was $15 back in June 2023. Then went up to $20 in July 2023 and now $25. A 67% increase in 16 months.

The lack of competition and the crap this oligopoly can get away with is infuriating, and there's zero protection from consumers who can see price jumps despite any sort of agreement. Rogers recently increased their price of their box rentals for christ sakes.
 

Blue and Green

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It was $15 back in June 2023. Then went up to $20 in July 2023 and now $25. A 67% increase in 16 months.

The lack of competition and the crap this oligopoly can get away with is infuriating, and there's zero protection from consumers who can see price jumps despite any sort of agreement. Rogers recently increased their price of their box rentals for christ sakes.
Yeah, pretty much anything to do with internet/celllular or cable in this country, we get whacked due to a surfeit of competition. Sportsnet has decided to milk current subscribers during the final years of its near-monopoly on NHL rights.
 

Rowlet

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Hughes - Fox is going to be an insane pairing at the 4 nations, they're maybe the two best possession players in the league
 

Hodgy

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His edge work and strength on his skates has always been bad. His top speed and speed bursts were all at least roughly NHL average though. Harman Dayal found that his frequency of speed bursts is way down compared to past seasons, going through the NHL Edge data. Visually, it is very clear to me he has no "pop" or acceleration in his skating.

Seems like a lower body injury affecting his skating. He said the knee tendonitis is still bothering him. The answer appears pretty clear.
If we are going by Pettersson's own account at training camp (which I assume you are referencing above), then the patellar tendonitis is a nagging injury that is not a big deal and isn't causing him any pain, and his knee if fine. I am paraphrasing, but I think that's what he said.

Its tough, because he obviously looks terrible and isn't skating well. And I get why people want to conclude that this is because of the patellar tendinitis, and perhaps it is. But during his slump two years ago where there were no reports of a lower body injury, he also looked strikingly similar. People often blame the older slump on his wrist injury but that wouldn't have impacted his skating. So I don't know, to me, he's skated as poorly as he is skating right now in the past where there was no lower body injury, so I don't know why there'd need to be one now to explain the way he looks.
 
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bossram

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If we are going by Pettersson's own account at training camp (which I assume you are referencing above), then the patellar tendonitis is a nagging injury that is not a big deal and isn't causing him any pain, and his knee if fine. I am paraphrasing, but I think that's what he said.

Its tough, because he obviously looks terrible and isn't skating well. And I get why people want to conclude that this is because of the patellar tendinitis, and perhaps it is. But during his slump two years ago where there were no reports of a lower body injury, he also looked strikingly similar. People often blame the older slump on his wrist injury but that wouldn't have impacted his skating. So I don't know, to me, he's skated as poorly as he is skating right now in the past where there was no lower body injury, so I don't know why there'd need to be one now to explain the way he looks.
His skating, to me, looks notably worse than when he had his previous slump. His skating is awful. I've never seen it this laboured.

Petey said he basically had to "work around" the tendonitis in the offseason. That doesn't indicate, to me, that it's "no big deal" and is causing him "no pain" or no issue. It's the club that seems to insist the injury is basically imagined.

Again, as I said before, whether anyone thinks the injury should affect his play this much is debatable. But honestly it should be without question that there is some kind of very real physical ailment limiting him.
 

MS

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If we are going by Pettersson's own account at training camp (which I assume you are referencing above), then the patellar tendonitis is a nagging injury that is not a big deal and isn't causing him any pain, and his knee if fine. I am paraphrasing, but I think that's what he said.

Its tough, because he obviously looks terrible and isn't skating well. And I get why people want to conclude that this is because of the patellar tendinitis, and perhaps it is. But during his slump two years ago where there were no reports of a lower body injury, he also looked strikingly similar. People often blame the older slump on his wrist injury but that wouldn't have impacted his skating. So I don't know, to me, he's skated as poorly as he is skating right now in the past where there was no lower body injury, so I don't know why there'd need to be one now to explain the way he looks.

This.

He looked exactly like this in 2021 and unless someone can give me the skating data from the first 40 games of that season showing that his skating was totally normal ... I don't buy the 'obviously the skating data proves he's hurt' stuff.

The only data we have (that I can see) is for the season as a whole and his top speed actually was way down that year (bottom 50%) and that was based on him hitting that max in one of the last games of the season when he was playing much better. So - and granted this is extremely incomplete data - it does look like some of those same issues were there the last time he was playing like crap, and there was no knee issue at that point.
 
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JT Milker

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His edge work and strength on his skates has always been bad. His top speed and speed bursts were all at least roughly NHL average though. Harman Dayal found that his frequency of speed bursts is way down compared to past seasons, going through the NHL Edge data. Visually, it is very clear to me he has no "pop" or acceleration in his skating.

Seems like a lower body injury affecting his skating. He said the knee tendonitis is still bothering him. The answer appears pretty clear.
I have no idea to what extent whatever injury he has or doesn’t have is affecting his skating. I don’t think it’s why he’s playing like doodoo though.
 

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