Around the League, Summer 2016--NHL Draft Shenanigans Edition

[TonySCV]

Dustin Brown turned into Dustin Brown at the age of 28

Milan Lucic is 28

Is this the year Milan Lucic turns into Dustin Brown?

Dustin Brown turned in to Dustin Brown when he became a family man first and foremost. The age was just coincidental. Dads want to be there for their kids, and the physical style he played was a bit too high risk for that, so he toned everything down, and became a pretty ineffective player as a result. I highly doubt that Lucic's production will see the cliff-dive that Brown's did.

 

[YP44]

Dustin Brown turned in to Dustin Brown when he became a family man first and foremost. The age was just coincidental. Dads want to be there for their kids, and the physical style he played was a bit too high risk for that, so he toned everything down, and became a pretty ineffective player as a result. I highly doubt that Lucic's production will see the cliff-dive that Brown's did.

Did he tone it down on purpose or is it a result of being exhausted due to jobs around the house? Brown's stats on the road are noticeably better.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Lucic will provide McDavid with the same thing he provided Kopitar: room. It's a good signing right now and likely for another three years. It is what it is.

14-15:
16 goals
10 ES goals
6 PP goals
0 SH goals
0 OT goals

15-16:
25 goals
19 ES goals
5 PP goals
1 SH goal
4 OT goals

The room issue could be something to keep an eye on. Kopitar had 9 more ES goals than 2 years ago. 4 of them came in 3v3 OT, which was without Lucic, but plenty of room out there. I can remember 1 goal against Carolina specifically where Kopitar scored while out on the ice with Clifford and Nolan in between line changes. Now you're talking 4 extra ES goals from the previous year. How many of those were with Kopitar and Lucic out there together? I don't know. Kopitar can't slide in the goal and shot totals again though.

 

[damacles1156]

Kopitar has proven through his whole career that it doesn't matter who his line-mates are, he will produce and play elite 200ft.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

14-15:
16 goals
10 ES goals
6 PP goals
0 SH goals
0 OT goals

15-16:
25 goals
19 ES goals
5 PP goals
1 SH goal
4 OT goals

The room issue could be something to keep an eye on. Kopitar had 9 more ES goals than 2 years ago. 4 of them came in 3v3 OT, which was without Lucic, but plenty of room out there. I can remember 1 goal against Carolina specifically where Kopitar scored while out on the ice with Clifford and Nolan in between line changes. Now you're talking 4 extra ES goals from the previous year. How many of those were with Kopitar and Lucic out there together? I don't know. Kopitar can't slide in the goal and shot totals again though.

Kopitar will be fine without Lucic. He shot 43 fewer times in 2014-15. Not sure how many of those were even strength but that's where the goal decrease came from. Now Kopitar with Brown....that might hurt Kopitar's game a bit.

 

[BigBrown]

Bernier to the Ducks. Huh. Maybe it's in response to the Kings extending Lewis, they fear he'll completely ruin Gibson's confidence if he scores on him any more.

 

[Brodeur]

Bernier to the Ducks. Huh. Maybe it's in response to the Kings extending Lewis, they fear he'll completely ruin Gibson's confidence if he scores on him any more.

Bernier had a 2 mil bonus due on July 1st, so the Ducks are only on the hook for 2.15 mil in actual money. There wasn't much left on the free agent market for goalies and maybe they weren't interested in Enroth/Ortio/etc.

 

[deeshamrock]

Mike Chambers Verified account 
‏@MikeChambers
Nathan MacKinnon signs 7-year contract with Avs

Friedman says the AAV is 6.3

Good deal.


Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC · 1h1 hour ago

Word is Mark Scheifele closing in on an extension with Winnipeg. 8 years, AAV approx $6M per.

turned out to be 6.125

 

[KingsCourt]

Mike Chambers Verified account 
‏@MikeChambers
Nathan MacKinnon signs 7-year contract with Avs

Friedman says the AAV is 6.3

Good deal.


Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC · 1h1 hour ago

Word is Mark Scheifele closing in on an extension with Winnipeg. 8 years, AAV approx $6M per.

turned out to be 6.125

Good, good.. TT falls in the range two pretty good comparables

 

[deeshamrock]

Good, good.. TT falls in the range two pretty good comparables

6.5 seems like the number , but adding Pearson to that and the other forwards who need deals (or who are traded for or signed..) DL has his work cut out for him.
Only 7 forwards signed beyond this year .

 

[AlphaBravo]

I don't think Pearson has proven that he is worth near $5-6 million a year. I think a fair contract for him is a long term deal worth $3.75-4 million. Toffoli, on the other hand, will probably get $6-6.5 million also on a long term deal.

 

[Butch 19]

Bernier to the Ducks. Huh. Maybe it's in response to the Kings extending Lewis, they fear he'll completely ruin Gibson's confidence if he scores on him any more.

Free advice to DL: Never pick a goalie in the 1st round.

Yet another burned pick.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Free advice to DL: Never pick a goalie in the 1st round.

Yet another burned pick.

How the hell is he a burned pick He was a good to elite backup up in la He went to a team that hasn't developed a goalie in 20 years or so. The leafs ruined bernier. He was not a bad pick Some people are just looking to ***** about our drafting.

 

[Brodeur]

I suppose I understand the mentality that it's better to spend later picks on goalies. But I always wonder which players you bypassed by taking the goalie. The natural inclination is to cherry pick one guy (Bryan Little), but in a lot of cases it's not that star studded. Especially if we're talking a late 1st round pick.

Just going off of some public lists, here's who they would have taken instead of Bernier:

TSN: Jiri Tlusty
ISS: Jiri Tlusty
RLR: Jiri Tlusty
THN: Jiri Tlusty
McKeen's: Nigel Williams

Tlusty had a couple of decent seasons down the road for Carolina, but he's not exactly somebody I'd lose sleep over.

 

[Quattro]

How the hell is he a burned pick He was a good to elite backup up in la He went to a team that hasn't developed a goalie in 20 years or so. The leafs ruined bernier. He was not a bad pick Some people are just looking to ***** about our drafting.

Concur - just a ridiculous statement

 

[HookKing]

How the hell is he a burned pick He was a good to elite backup up in la He went to a team that hasn't developed a goalie in 20 years or so. The leafs ruined bernier. He was not a bad pick Some people are just looking to ***** about our drafting.

That's a good one.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

That's a good one.

ok well said absolutely convincing me ............................................ NOT maybe a reason as to why but no its just easier to hate on things i guess




he had a 1.88 goal-against average and .922 save percentage to go with a 9-3-1 record backing up Jonathan Quick. how is this not close to elite numbers for a backup?

 

[BigKing]

ok well said absolutely convincing me ............................................ NOT maybe a reason as to why but no its just easier to hate on things i guess




he had a 1.88 goal-against average and .922 save percentage to go with a 9-3-1 record backing up Jonathan Quick. how is this not close to elite numbers for a backup?

The easy retort is:

How was Scrivens backing up Quick?
How was Jones backing up Quick?

Where were they drafted?

Bernier is and was a bust of a draft pick. Lombardi drafted for need (which tells you that they didn't believe Quick would be a legit #1) and took the highest rated goalie in the draft.

You can say that the Leafs ruined Bernier, but you can also say that it might just be that he isn't a great goalie. You can go back to being unseated at the WJC for Mason and some of his attitude problems to see that it isn't like he was simply "can't miss" and just wound up behind Quick.

That being said, he helped this team get into the playoffs in 2012 and win the Cup. I don't loathe the pick, but DL has seemed to draft for need in the 1st round on three occasions and it hasn't been pretty (Bernier/Hickey/Teubert) In relation to where he was drafted, he is a bust.

Brodeur-

Funny you mention cherry-picking Little because he is the guy I wanted at #11. Took Kopitar the year before so I figured Little could slide into the #2C spot eventually. Also funny is that I wanted Stewart at #17 when DL made the Demitra trade and, just like Little, he went with the pick immediately following the Kings.

Both Bernier and Lewis helped win Cups (with Bernier factoring in to getting LA the #8 seed in 2012) but Little has had a much better career than Bernier and Stewart looked like a real miss as well until he turned into a total ass clown.

It's also funny that I can remember all this stuff about Kings drafts dating back to the late 90s but I haven't really cared about the draft since 2010. Last time I got into it and followed the prospects leading up to the draft. Been nice to not care about it until the day of: hope that doesn't change anytime soon.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

The easy retort is:

How was Scrivens backing up Quick?
How was Jones backing up Quick?

Where were they drafted?

Bernier is and was a bust of a draft pick. Lombardi drafted for need (which tells you that they didn't believe Quick would be a legit #1) and took the highest rated goalie in the draft.

You can say that the Leafs ruined Bernier, but you can also say that it might just be that he isn't a great goalie. You can go back to being unseated at the WJC for Mason and some of his attitude problems to see that it isn't like he was simply "can't miss" and just wound up behind Quick.

That being said, he helped this team get into the playoffs in 2012 and win the Cup. I don't loathe the pick, but DL has seemed to draft for need in the 1st round on three occasions and it hasn't been pretty (Bernier/Hickey/Teubert) In relation to where he was drafted, he is a bust.

Your bringing up scriven and jones only helps prove my point. With the kings they can develop a goalie and have them play in our system. The leafs don't play a defensive system at all They don't have the team to do so I would not call him a bust yet lets see what he does with the ducks. I am willing to bet even quick would have sucked in toronto The leafs finished last in the nhl and goaltending was the least of the issues imo. At the time the kings needed a goalie more then anything We hadn't had a decent one since rogie imo ( ok hurley was ok but not as good as rogie) I am willing to say if quick didn't come out of nowhere to take the job i think no one would be saying anything about bernier today other than being thankful we drafted him

 

[kingsfan28]

Free advice to DL: Never pick a goalie in the 1st round.

Yet another burned pick.

That was an Al Murray pick, just like Lewis was in the first round.There was some interview with DL about how that draft wasn't his draft and he was just going on the advice of his scouts. Would've been interesting who he'd have pick had Futa and his scouting staff peen in place during that draft. Bernier did a good job as a solid backup and probably would've done better had he gone to a team that could play defense.

 

[BigKing]

Your bringing up scriven and jones only helps prove my point. With the kings they can develop a goalie and have them play in our system. The leafs don't play a defensive system at all They don't have the team to do so I would not call him a bust yet lets see what he does with the ducks. I am willing to bet even quick would have sucked in toronto The leafs finished last in the nhl and goaltending was the least of the issues imo. At the time the kings needed a goalie more then anything We hadn't had a decent one since rogie imo ( ok hurley was ok but not as good as rogie) I am willing to say if quick didn't come out of nowhere to take the job i think no one would be saying anything about bernier today other than being thankful we drafted him

No. I proved that pretty much every goalie the Kings have iced since 2012 has looked pretty good, except Bernier in 2012. Just realized I was giving him too much credit for 2012 as I thought his good back-up season was the one you posted. Guy was good for 12 points in 2012 and the Kings made the playoffs by five points but would Quick have been good for those points? Probably against anyone against Nashville. Real question would be if a league average back-up could have been good for a 5-6-2 record with a .909 SV% that year behind the best defense the Kings have ever iced. Answer is "probably". He did pull a big win out against Nashville down the stretch that season, but I definitely gave him too much credit in my initial post.

Quick didn't keep Bernier from being a great goalie: Bernier did. To say that if Quick didn't emerge that we would be sitting here today thankful for the Bernier selection is such a stretch that you probably pulled a muscle typing it.

Yes, let us see what he does backing up Gibson in Anaheim. Unless he becomes a legit #1 goalie in this league, he is a total bust of a #11 overall draft pick. If he was a 3rd rounder then I am not calling him a bust but, well, he went #11 overall.

I don't dislike him either. I wished they could of kept him after '13 but then Scrivens/Jones made me not give one **** about losing him.

As for the Kings being able to develop goalies, how are Gibson and Dillon doing? The Kings can develop goalies but most of it still comes down to the players talent, drive and ability to be coached/developed. Bernier lacked the latter two in comparison to Quick and Jones.

 

[BigKing]

That was an Al Murray pick, just like Lewis was in the first round. Would've been interesting who he'd have pick had Futa and his scouting staff peen in place during that draft. Bernier did a good job as a solid backup and probably would've done better had he gone to a team that could play defense.

I still have a very difficult time believing that Lombardi just left it up to a lame duck scouting staff. While it is true he didn't have his scouting staff working it all year, he didn't go fishing and let Al Murray make the selections.

Murray and staff had their board, but DL had final say.

Build from the net out: he did so with his first draft pick. Could be that Murray had Bernier as the BPA at that pick but I think Lombardi was going that route anyways.

I know I've read before that Lombardi said something akin to it "not being his draft" and I think he attributed Lewis to Murray more so than Bernier, but he was the GM and he makes the picks.

This quote drives the point home for me...this is not a guy who is just handing over the reins to Al Murray to run roughshod at the draft table:

“The most important thing right now is the amateur draft,†Lombardi said on April 21, 2006. “My goal in San Jose each year was to get your staff fired up to bring home at least two players. If you can hit along those lines, you’re doing pretty good, and I know you get seven or eight picks, but that’s reality. But you can’t afford to get shut out.â€

 

[KingCanadain1976]

No. I proved that pretty much every goalie the Kings have iced since 2012 has looked pretty good, except Bernier in 2012. Just realized I was giving him too much credit for 2012 as I thought his good back-up season was the one you posted. Guy was good for 12 points in 2012 and the Kings made the playoffs by five points but would Quick have been good for those points? Probably against anyone against Nashville. Real question would be if a league average back-up could have been good for a 5-6-2 record with a .909 SV% that year behind the best defense the Kings have ever iced. Answer is "probably". He did pull a big win out against Nashville down the stretch that season, but I definitely gave him too much credit in my initial post.

Quick didn't keep Bernier from being a great goalie: Bernier did. To say that if Quick didn't emerge that we would be sitting here today thankful for the Bernier selection is such a stretch that you probably pulled a muscle typing it.

Yes, let us see what he does backing up Gibson in Anaheim. Unless he becomes a legit #1 goalie in this league, he is a total bust of a #11 overall draft pick. If he was a 3rd rounder then I am not calling him a bust but, well, he went #11 overall.

I don't dislike him either. I wished they could of kept him after '13 but then Scrivens/Jones made me not give one **** about losing him.

As for the Kings being able to develop goalies, how are Gibson and Dillon doing? The Kings can develop goalies but most of it still comes down to the players talent, drive and ability to be coached/developed. Bernier lacked the latter two in comparison to Quick and Jones.

I disagree i honestly would have been fine with bernier being our top goalie not a stretch as you call it. I give you credit for at least saying how you see it instead of hiding in the weeds and just hating on him like others. you get respect points for that ( i know it don't mean much but hey i can always respect a differing opinion.) I honestly see him taking the one job and showing like jones did last year. Calling him a bust is just a reach to me I honestly don't care he where he was draft to call him a bust after playing on a awful team like the leafs is unfair imo

 

[kingsfan28]

I still have a very difficult time believing that Lombardi just left it up to a lame duck scouting staff. While it is true he didn't have his scouting staff working it all year, he didn't go fishing and let Al Murray make the selections.

Murray and staff had their board, but DL had final say.

Build from the net out: he did so with his first draft pick. Could be that Murray had Bernier as the BPA at that pick but I think Lombardi was going that route anyways.

I know I've read before that Lombardi said something akin to it "not being his draft" and I think he attributed Lewis to Murray more so than Bernier, but he was the GM and he makes the picks.

This quote drives the point home for me...this is not a guy who is just handing over the reins to Al Murray to run roughshod at the draft table:

“The most important thing right now is the amateur draft,†Lombardi said on April 21, 2006. “My goal in San Jose each year was to get your staff fired up to bring home at least two players. If you can hit along those lines, you’re doing pretty good, and I know you get seven or eight picks, but that’s reality. But you can’t afford to get shut out.â€

While this may be true, I still think Murray was trying to impress his new boss , knowing how much he liked goalies, by picking him . Had Taylor still been in charge, there's now way we take Bernier. Lombardi , only being on the job for a few months had no idea what our situation was until well into the summer. Murray was fired a few weeks after the draft.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

I was just randomly thinking. What would it have taken to get PK here? Since the trade came out of left field, us fans didn't even get a chance to fantasize about it. If Montréal was letting everybody know that they were shopping him, would Deano have offered?