Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,645
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You can see it with your eyes in both series Bob is an animal. After making huge saves all game, even when the Oilers got back into the game with a pure fluke and unstoppable tip, Bob shut the door with the biggest save of the game to seal the win. He also single handedly won game 1. After stinking it up last year and losing his starting job to Lyon, it really lit a fire under him and he's been a throwback to old 2x Vezina Bob since them much of the time.

Goaltending has been the difference in the series really and it's not like Skinner has stunk the joint up despite his stats. Skinner has just not been on the crazy level of Bobrovsky who is forcing the Oilers to take risks and getting exposed at the back hanging Skinner out to dry on half the goals IMO He may close it out with a .950+ against a prime McDrai team. It's silly to try and take that away from him.

We got a flash of playoff goaltending from Woll this year but this team has lacked a quality playoff keeper since Belfour really.

It’s definitely time to throw Nu Hockey into the garbage and any talk about “goalies being voodoo” needs to be banished forever. You can build an offense heavy team but you need an elite goalie to give you an alternate path to victory. If a team wants to contend for a cup in a serious way, an elite goalie should be an absolute priority. Yes, teams have won with subpar goaltending here and there, but chances are it won’t be you.
 

TheGreenTBer

the only language I speak is FAILURE
Apr 30, 2021
9,947
12,152
It’s definitely time to throw Nu Hockey into the garbage and any talk about “goalies being voodoo” needs to be banished forever. You can build an offense heavy team but you need an elite goalie to give you an alternate path to victory. If a team wants to contend for a cup in a serious way, an elite goalie should be an absolute priority. Yes, teams have won with subpar goaltending here and there, but chances are it won’t be you.
I love you

Just saying
 
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PromisedLand

I need more FOOD
Dec 3, 2016
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Evilhomer

Registered User
Oct 10, 2019
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It’s definitely time to throw Nu Hockey into the garbage and any talk about “goalies being voodoo” needs to be banished forever. You can build an offense heavy team but you need an elite goalie to give you an alternate path to victory. If a team wants to contend for a cup in a serious way, an elite goalie should be an absolute priority. Yes, teams have won with subpar goaltending here and there, but chances are it won’t be you.
Aren't the Panthers analytics darlings, also? There are lots of ways to win. They just happen to be doing it with a good goalie. Vegas and Colorado did it with completely mediocre goalies.
 

TheGreenTBer

the only language I speak is FAILURE
Apr 30, 2021
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12,152
Aren't the Panthers analytics darlings, also? There are lots of ways to win. They just happen to be doing it with a good goalie. Vegas and Colorado did it with completely mediocre goalies.

Which makes the Leafs' continued incompetence and stubbornness (despite this fact) all the more despicable.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,645
55,612
Aren't the Panthers analytics darlings, also? There are lots of ways to win. They just happen to be doing it with a good goalie. Vegas and Colorado did it with completely mediocre goalies.

When I say Nu Hockey, I mean superficial Kyle Dubas branded nonsense masquerading as innovation, where picking up low value player types is cornering "market inefficiencies" and obvious and well valued attributes like size on defense and bluechip goaltending are scrutinized, cause well, you it's voodoo.

So yeah, nothing like Florida.
 
Oct 15, 2014
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Aren't the Panthers analytics darlings, also? There are lots of ways to win. They just happen to be doing it with a good goalie. Vegas and Colorado did it with completely mediocre goalies.

It's also extremely tough to find a good, consistent goalie. As long as your goalie isn't a complete sieve, the focus should be on how you play. Then hope your goalie catches lightning in a bottle for a playoff run, or at least does enough for you to win.

If you're scoring only 1-2 goals a game like the Leafs, then it doesn't matter who's in net. You're not winning.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
12,731
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When I say Nu Hockey, I mean superficial Kyle Dubas branded nonsense masquerading as innovation, where picking up low value player types is cornering "market inefficiencies" and obvious and well valued attributes like size on defense and bluechip goaltending are scrutinized, cause well, you it's voodoo.

So yeah, nothing like Florida.

Dubas is the only GM in the NHL who's smart enough to know that Denis Malgin or Nic Petan could turn into Marcel Dionne, unlike a carriage turning into a pumpkin...:sarcasm:
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
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When I say Nu Hockey, I mean superficial Kyle Dubas branded nonsense masquerading as innovation, where picking up low value player types is cornering "market inefficiencies" and obvious and well valued attributes like size on defense and bluechip goaltending are scrutinized, cause well, you it's voodoo.

So yeah, nothing like Florida.
But Panthers did signed or traded for a whole bunch of unwanted players and they all turned into good pieces for their run. Maybe Dubas’s idea is right but his execution sucks.
Or Dubas is just misinterpreting the stats. Like when looking at size, Zito looks at over 6’ft but Dubas looks at under 6’ft, lol.

Having said all that, I just think Dubas sucks bc he tried to outsmart the system and his peers but he ended up just doing the opposite of others thinking he is smarter.
 

hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
20,813
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Pickering, Ontario
that's an atlantic division team too isnt it? they whalloped Winnipeg who swept the oilers in the same year...


dont forget penguins won 2 with Hainsey on their top pair.
The pens won 2016 without Hainsey

Won 2017 with him

He only played 21 mins that year due to Letang being injured/having a stroke which kept him out of the lineup for playoffs

2017 pens obviously are a better team with Letang playing vs not
 

MilkofthePoppy

Registered User
Oct 27, 2022
879
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Evan Bouchard reminds me of Sheldon Souray. He has a great point shot and little else. Edmonton's d corps are getting exposed in this series. Ceci and Nurse have been abysmal. Hyman is back to having stone hands.

Any other Leaf fan not interested in signing McDavid if he becomes available? By the time he is a free agent his best quality, speed, will be severely diminished. I also think he is an entitled whiner.
 
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MCR74

Registered User
Nov 11, 2022
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But Panthers did signed or traded for a whole bunch of unwanted players and they all turned into good pieces for their run. Maybe Dubas’s idea is right but his execution sucks.
Or Dubas is just misinterpreting the stats. Like when looking at size, Zito looks at over 6’ft but Dubas looks at under 6’ft, lol.

Having said all that, I just think Dubas sucks bc he tried to outsmart the system and his peers but he ended up just doing the opposite of others thinking he is smarter.

And then Pittsburgh had the foresight to sign him long term.:laugh:
 
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Enga Olly

Registered User
May 26, 2021
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In retrospect that playoffs was the biggest missed opportunity in Leafs history in quite some time.

Keefe made mistakes but it wasn't all on him either.

Very sad to reflect on
It was the 1 year since the matthews era started where the "choke" label can be legitimately applied.

That was the year that a realistic path to the cup could have been plotted. Yes we would have lost to the Bolts but at least we would have been to the finals at long last.
That loss left a mark
 

BallardEra

Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Dec 26, 2017
7,438
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Evan Bouchard reminds me of Sheldon Souray. He has a great point shot and little else. Edmonton's d corps are getting exposed in this series. Ceci and Nurse have been abysmal.
I have a buddy of mine who is one of those bandwagon fans and wants the Oilers to win the Cup for "Canada" blah blah blah.

I told him that the Florida forecheck would expose that trash Oilers D and also said they'd win in 5 games.

For some reason he is very quiet texting me when the games are on.:laugh:
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,498
33,443
St. Paul, MN
It’s definitely time to throw Nu Hockey into the garbage and any talk about “goalies being voodoo” needs to be banished forever. You can build an offense heavy team but you need an elite goalie to give you an alternate path to victory. If a team wants to contend for a cup in a serious way, an elite goalie should be an absolute priority. Yes, teams have won with subpar goaltending here and there, but chances are it won’t be you.

How many elite goalies have won a cup in the last 5-10 years though?

Vasy for sure, then it's a few good but not amazing guys and some defacto one hit wonders. I think it's a bigger question mark variable than you're implying
 
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Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,759
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When I say Nu Hockey, I mean superficial Kyle Dubas branded nonsense masquerading as innovation, where picking up low value player types is cornering "market inefficiencies" and obvious and well valued attributes like size on defense and bluechip goaltending are scrutinized, cause well, you it's voodoo.

So yeah, nothing like Florida.
Picking up low value "market inefficiency" players is exactly how the Florida Panthers were built. They just picked up ones that worked out for them. They are also an analytical stats driven org.

and yes, goalies are pretty much voodoo. The recency bias, that one team, built one way wins the cup, and that's the new formula is a bit shortsighted.
 
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Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
9,623
8,968
It’s definitely time to throw Nu Hockey into the garbage and any talk about “goalies being voodoo” needs to be banished forever. You can build an offense heavy team but you need an elite goalie to give you an alternate path to victory. If a team wants to contend for a cup in a serious way, an elite goalie should be an absolute priority. Yes, teams have won with subpar goaltending here and there, but chances are it won’t be you.

Even those goalies that are supposedly "subpar" can be big moment goalies making big saves at key times. Toronto, Edmonton, Carolina stand out as teams that have have good teams but poor goaltending that last decade (Andersen, Campbell, Mrazek common threads here too). I dont think spreadsheets dictate as much as people think they do in these regards or else many goalies out there simply wouldnt be signed. Its just hard to find a good goalie and teams dont tend to let go of good ones.

Goalies are only voodoo in the sense they can have real ups and downs in their career as Bob has just showed us although hes had other bad stretches too. Whats key is that he has the pedigree as an elite goalie. You are correct in that an at least good goalie is crucial in the playoffs. You can have a breakdown game here or there but as long as you come through in clutch time, who cares? The fact our best goalie during the entire Matthews era in this regard has been Joseph Woll speaks volumes. The fact we have faced some of the better goalies of our era on the other side makes things look even worse. If Toronto was in the West we would have probably had a couple more 2nd round finishes and maybe even a CF but this team was still never going to sniff the cup with what we have had in net and every single cup winner we have seen the last decade would have failed with a Campbell/Samsonov/Andersen keeper. Absolutely terrible in big moments. The least clutch keepers out there.
Aren't the Panthers analytics darlings, also? There are lots of ways to win. They just happen to be doing it with a good goalie. Vegas and Colorado did it with completely mediocre goalies.

Adin Hill is a solid #1 that turned it up a notch that run. A .932 save% for the entire cup winning playoffs. He was battling injuries before and during this playoffs but managed to get back in the net athough they lost a close series but he still ended up with a .931 in 3 games . Really elevates his game in the playoffs and I dont think he gets enough love.

The aging Keumper (who was hit by injuries and played on a bad team this season) on the flip side didnt have great stats during his cup run but is known to make big saves in big moments. It's why he has both a cup ring and a WHC gold medal as a starter. The fact he was an all-star on the frigging Coyotes shows he was pretty quality in his prime. Just look at how the Avs looked without him and Georgiev instead? Now those are bad stats on the exact same team.

Both of those goalies are better than any starter we have had lately, thats for sure.

I actually think the whole "voodoo" thing gets tossed around because of just how valuable a goalie is. They play the whole game and are the last line of defense. You flip the keepers in the current finals and it could easily be 2-1 Oilers with McDavid with 10 points. It certainly turns every narrative on its head but its probably the truth of what would happen. The Panthers remain the complete team they have been for years now. They just have dont have a hot Bob in net for them and they look like the same team with the same coach crashing out of the playoffs last year due to...ding ding ding, goaltending issues. The Pens losing that game last season wasnt just them shooting themselves in the foot but was probably one of the most important events in hockey in modern times lol.
 
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IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,885
25,617
Aren't the Panthers analytics darlings, also? There are lots of ways to win. They just happen to be doing it with a good goalie. Vegas and Colorado did it with completely mediocre goalies.
Cool so let's talk then when our core can turn up like Colorado's in the postseason.

In the mean time let's not worry about what goalie they were able to win with eh?
 

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