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Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

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Jimmy Firecracker said:
Watching Bouchard dominate offensively in the playoffs makes how the Leafs “developed” Sandin and Liljegren seem like amateur hour. This franchise has been so obsessed with being safe and defensively responsible that Keefe practically beat whatever offensive instincts those guys had right out of them. Heaven forbid anyone besides Rielly gets any offensive assignments or you don’t immediately bench or scratch a young guy because a risk he took didn’t work out.

Not saying either man would’ve had the same impact as Bouchard but it’s embarrassing that two defensemen praised for their offensive instincts heading into their draft years have topped out as sub-25 point defensemen. Washington may still get more out of Sandin, and if Liljegren sticks around I’d like to think Berube will be better for him.
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Bouchard was much higher pedigree and draft pick than Sandin and Liljegren was kind of in quasi bust territory before he even fell to the Leafs in 2017. But I do agree that Leafs development on D has been amateur hour this entire regime. Justin Holl is basically our highest profile defensive product. Sandin and Liljegren are just a mess following in the mold of Dermott. Pretty ugly stuff.

A good counter to what the Leafs have been doing is how composed and useful guys like Lohrei looked for Boston.
 
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MSZ said:
Matthews is in Dionne's tier though. It's still possible for Matthews to change this narrative if the team can get rid of Marner and replace him with better playoff pieces.
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Steve Y was considered one of the worse captains in red wings until Lidstorm, Fedorov and Scotty Bowman

He was also part of the lindros offer

He changed his narrative few years after when they finally start winning
 
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Stephen said:
Bouchard was much higher pedigree and draft pick than Sandin and Liljegren was kind of in quasi bust territory before he even fell to the Leafs in 2017. But I do agree that Leafs development on D has been amateur hour this entire regime. Justin Holl is basically our highest profile defensive product. Sandin and Liljegren are just a mess following in the mold of Dermott. Pretty ugly stuff.

A good counter to what the Leafs have been doing is how composed and useful guys like Lohrei looked for Boston.
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I don’t think it has anything to do with development. Sandin and Liljegren just have flaws and their flaws are being exposed at the NHL level. What more could the leafs have done for both of them? Both got a good amount of time in the AHL. They weren’t rushed at all. Both have had time in the top 4. They just suck, point blank period. And that’s okay, sometimes you miss on your picks or they don’t become top pairing guys.
 
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francis246 said:
I don’t think it has anything to do with development. Sandin and Liljegren just have flaws and their flaws are being exposed at the NHL level. What more could the leafs have done for both of them? Both got a good amount of time in the AHL. They weren’t rushed at all. Both have had time in the top 4. They just suck, point blank period. And that’s okay, sometimes you miss on your picks or they don’t become top pairing guys.
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From what I understand, they tied to work with Sandin on his skating, but he was not at all committed to improving, and that's why they unloaded him.
 
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Dreakmur said:
From what I understand, they tied to work with Sandin on his skating, but he was not at all committed to improving, and that's why they unloaded him.
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A small defenseman might succeed if his skating is elite. A big defenseman might be valuable even if his skating has some shortcomings.

A small defenseman with skating issues? Forget it. He's never going to be anything substantial unless he completely transforms his skating and he was a total liability here.
 
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francis246 said:
I don’t think it has anything to do with development. Sandin and Liljegren just have flaws and their flaws are being exposed at the NHL level. What more could the leafs have done for both of them? Both got a good amount of time in the AHL. They weren’t rushed at all. Both have had time in the top 4. They just suck, point blank period. And that’s okay, sometimes you miss on your picks or they don’t become top pairing guys.
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You touch on good points and I'd say Leafs failure on D is systematic. Failure to target the right combination of body type fit for purpose, unable to evaluate for demeanor, compete level, composure under pressure, coachability, everything. Then you get to development and I don't even think the right structure is getting drilled into them, wrong risk to reward sliders.

That's why we seem to churn out these mid size, no personality players who stink under pressure and don't seem to have any kind of offensive or defensive ability.
 
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ToneDog said:
Can't believe Panarin getting rid of the puck from behind his net to avoid contact. Another example of a player who melts in the playoffs.
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He's doing alright. He does have 14 points
But other than his points he hasn't been driving the play.

Not impactful most of the games.
 
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Stephen said:
You touch on good points and I'd say Leafs failure on D is systematic. Failure to target the right combination of body type fit for purpose, unable to evaluate for demeanor, compete level, composure under pressure, coachability, everything. Then you get to development and I don't even think the right structure is getting drilled into them, wrong risk to reward sliders.

That's why we seem to churn out these mid size, no personality players who stink under pressure and don't seem to have any kind of offensive or defensive ability.
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To be fair, the Leafs inability to draft and develop good NHL defensemen well precedes the Shanahan regime. Last 30 years we got what? Rielly and Kaberle as the only real notables?

Goaltending is much in the same boat. A total wasteland of busts and middling NHL players.
 
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