Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

[Evilhomer]

He was the casualty for over paying guys.

His wife was an articling student at my wife's firm at the time, and I think his departure had more to do with him wanting to move on at the time than Toronto's salary offer. Sometimes guys just leave, and it's not actually anybody's fault.

 

[BallardEra]

Hilarious that Mike Sullivan has an extension that begins next season.

Unreal.

Pens extend coach Sullivan's deal through '26-27

Mike Sullivan, the winningest coach in Pittsburgh Penguins history, has agreed to a new contract that runs through the 2026-27 season.

www.espn.com

 

[Jojalu]

He was the casualty for over paying guys.

For some reason I can't remember their cap situation the past two years well enough.

This year it seems ridiculous as Bert makes the exact same so he would have easily fit.

I don't think Hyman scores 50 here. McDavid is that good. I do still think he is a 60-80 point guy with 30-40 and a huge boost.

In the end, a poor decision to not make it work. Unless he wanted to go somewhere else.

 

[ToneDog]

His wife was an articling student at my wife's firm at the time, and I think his departure had more to do with him wanting to move on at the time than Toronto's salary offer. Sometimes guys just leave, and it's not actually anybody's fault.

Hyman was willing to take a discount, apparently not enough of a discount to for Leafs Braintrust. Good for Hyman, he got more money and success in Edmonton.

 

[Evilhomer]

Hyman was willing to take a discount, apparently not enough of a discount to for Leafs Braintrust. Good for Hyman, he got more money and success in Edmonton.

I think there was more to it than money. In any event, good on him for becoming the player he is now. I think he has had some interesting dynamics to overcome as he has come up through the ranks, particularly in relation to how some people have reacted to his father.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Is it really hindsight if you thought we’d regret it at the time? My lament never computed 50 goals, but that really doesn’t matter why we argued he was a valuable piece to keep, which he’s was. And, you could see he wasn’t “stone hands” as argued here relentlessly.

That’s fair but I think there was enough concern about his long term health and underwhelming playoff results that were counter arguments to re-signing him. He was also 28, a common age for players to peak. Especially power forwards like him who don’t age well into their 30’s. He’s bucking the trend exceptionally well.

This was a fair risk assessment when looking at him. But still they offered him a good contract. I think it was 1 year and $500k annually less than Edmonton. So it wasn’t cap or anything. He chose the extra year and money. And many at the time thought it was a steep signing.

 

[Bomber0104]

He was basically a 30 goal scorer for us the last two seasons, not exactly a scrub. Then understand his role digging pucks, defensively, pretty attractive player.

Incredible that people can't just admit they were wrong about their evaluation of Stone Hands™ both with the Leafs and now with the Oilers.

Personally I thought his success was awesome to witness from 4th line to 1st line mainstay with the Leafs, to a now 50-goal scorer (pacing).

I guess some are just set with the belief that you are what you are as a rookie/sophomore in the league and can't possibly develop further?

 

[PromisedLand]

Problem this team has had is that their "will" can be easily taken away (how many years ago did Foligno say this?). My hope is that in time Tre will change that. I see some progress this year but he needs more time.

This year I saw saw Willy get involved in a scrum heck he started the scrum that gave me hope

 

[PromisedLand]

Again.. unless skill is willing to sacrifice.

When Pit was at it's best, no one outworked, sacrificed more than Crosby, who was the most skilled.

If your best players work the hardest and set the example, your job as a coach almost becomes non-existent.

the culture that was instilled by dubas was not the culture where skill would have worked the hardest. As far as I am concerned that is an undeniable fact.

 

[rumman]

A+++

There were some diehard Leaf fans that took the position that not keeping him was going to be a big mistake.

Zach Hyman's game is built around consistent hard work and effort and that gets rewarded particularly come playoff time.

On many nights Hyman was the straw that stirred the Leafs drink, not just based on production alone, but because his work ethic drew his teammates into the fight.

There is a well known phrase by a former NHL coach,.

View attachment 829087

In hindsight now Hyman at $5 mil vs Tavaras at $11 mil based on actual statistical results serves as validation for those that were believers from the start.

Spot on assessment……..

 

[Jojalu]

the culture that was instilled by dubas was not the culture where skill would have worked the hardest. As far as I am concerned that is an undeniable fact.

I can't say with 100% certainty if it was a culture thing. The Leafs had a lot of players that worked hard.

I have often wondered why Keefe can't somehow get through to AM+ MM that less will be more in the playoffs.

Sure, I would love to see Matthews split the D and score a spectacular goal a la Mario against the Stars, but if he and Mitch just drove the net a little more, fought for a little more space, they could punch in a few garbage goals.

They own the puck almost all the time, but can't find a way to break through in the big games.

Nylander I would just work on stopping taking a shift off here and there. While he has worked on his 2 way game, I still want him exiting early if he reads the play well and creating svoring chances by himself. It's his best attribute.

I think they work hard. Just not smart for playoff hockey

 

[rumman]

Hyman was willing to take a discount, apparently not enough of a discount to for Leafs Braintrust. Good for Hyman, he got more money and success in Edmonton.

He knew his value and the Leafs didn’t apparently appreciate what he brought to the team because it wasn’t sexy enough, most nights he was the hardest working player on the team………

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I don't see why there is so much insistence that he should have traded those three. Unless they ask out, I'd allow them to ride their entire careers in Penguins uniforms. Especially Sid.

His first misstep was believing Karlsson was the answer to one more Cup. He still has time to do a rebuild on the fly while the core three ride into the sunset. But moving a 1st for Karlsson and handcuffing the cap with his contract for a few years sets that back.

He doesn't have to do anything but I notice if he did do this, the rebuild will be easy (easier).

Agree on karlsson.

 

[PromisedLand]

For some reason I can't remember their cap situation the past two years well enough.

This year it seems ridiculous as Bert makes the exact same so he would have easily fit.

I don't think Hyman scores 50 here. McDavid is that good. I do still think he is a 60-80 point guy with 30-40 and a huge boost.

In the end, a poor decision to not make it work. Unless he wanted to go somewhere else.

McJesus is a special player no doubt but gotta give Hyman some credit too. I mean they had Poolparty, Yamamoto and Connor Brown on McDavid's wing and they couldn't produce.

Here are a few articles and quotes from Hyman that may shed some light on the kind of GARBAGE Dubas really was (although he doesn't say it; it is pretty easy to infer)

Link1: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-zach-hyman-toronto-to-edmonton-1.6184535

Some other articles won't post snippets from it but if you want to read it go ahead

Zach Hyman, 50-goal scorer? The former Maple Leaf is thriving in Edmonton

The ex-Leaf wasn't selected as an all-star this season, but he leads the Oilers with 26 goals and counting.

www.thestar.com

Hyman leaving Leafs to join Oilers on a $40-million deal. Only question that remains is term

The contract will be for eight years if Leafs agree to a sign-and-trade. Otherwise, the pending unrestricted free agent will join Edmonton on a seven-year deal when the market opens up.

www.thestar.com

Feschuck article (vomit) but hey.... it is what it is I suppose....

Dave Feschuk: Zach Hyman’s changing narrative gives Maple Leafs fans something to chew on

Critics once questioned why he was on Auston Matthews’ line. Now he has shared more five-on-five ice time with Connor McDavid than anybody else.

www.thestar.com

Zach Hyman: The best mistake the Toronto Maple Leafs ever made

Letting the future 40-goal scorer sign with Edmonton Oilers is the gift that keeps on giving

edmontonjournal.com

Bottom Line:
Not just hyman but folks really underestimate how absolutely PATHETIC Dubas was and how he ruined not just the present but future of the Leafs, Why do you think people hate Dubas so much? I mean we don't know him as a person, he hasn't done anything to us personally. We hate him because he ruined the Leafs; and as Leafs fans we are absolutely pissed.

 

[Fogelhund]

Go back and look at the Salary Cap. We simply didn't have enough room, to pay Hyman $5 mil. That was the end of the flat cap, for three years in a row at $81.5 mil.

After the core 4, the biggest forward contracts were Kerfoot @ $3.5 mil, and Mikheyev at $1.645 mil... Sure, we can make the argument that we should have traded Kerfoot, and kept Hyman, but that's still only $3.5, and I doubt that would have been enough as he signed for $5.5 mil.

It wasn't about wanting him, we just couldn't afford him at that price... it's that simple. Had we not had the Covid period, we would have likely kept him... .that's just stuff happening, not anybody's fault.

 

[kb]

Go back and look at the Salary Cap. We simply didn't have enough room, to pay Hyman $5 mil. That was the end of the flat cap, for three years in a row at $81.5 mil.

After the core 4, the biggest forward contracts were Kerfoot @ $3.5 mil, and Mikheyev at $1.645 mil... Sure, we can make the argument that we should have traded Kerfoot, and kept Hyman, but that's still only $3.5, and I doubt that would have been enough as he signed for $5.5 mil.

It wasn't about wanting him, we just couldn't afford him at that price... it's that simple. Had we not had the Covid period, we would have likely kept him... .that's just stuff happening, not anybody's fault.

The revisionist history on this site makes it nearly useless to read because one is mostly debating figments of poster's imaginations.

 

[PromisedLand]

I can't say with 100% certainty if it was a culture thing. The Leafs had a lot of players that worked hard.

I have often wondered why Keefe can't somehow get through to AM+ MM that less will be more in the playoffs.

Sure, I would love to see Matthews split the D and score a spectacular goal a la Mario against the Stars, but if he and Mitch just drove the net a little more, fought for a little more space, they could punch in a few garbage goals.

They own the puck almost all the time, but can't find a way to break through in the big games.

Nylander I would just work on stopping taking a shift off here and there. While he has worked on his 2 way game, I still want him exiting early if he reads the play well and creating svoring chances by himself. It's his best attribute.

I think they work hard. Just not smart for playoff hockey

CBJ series:
They kept the Leafs to the outside and Keefe didn't change anything heck he didn't break up Matthews-Marner duo

Habs Series:
Habs started playing physical and clog neutral zone keeping Leafs to the outside again; Keefe didn't break up Matthews-Marner duo

Bolts series - first time
Keefe's insistence of playing Holl in game 6 who completely effed up; and Marner making micky mouse plays; and lets be honest both Vasy and Campbell absolutely SUCKED in that series. Note: Keefe didn't break up Matthews-Marner duo

Bolts series - second time
Keefe finally breaks up the Matthews-Marner duo -> Leafs Win the series. Plenty of OTs and puck bounced for the Leafs more often than not. When was the last time a team won 3 playoff OTs in a row?

Florida Series
Keefe goes back to Matthews-Marner duo; Leafs get embarassed and he still didn't break it up. Florida basically played the same system that Habs did; play physical; clog neutral zone, keep Leafs to the outside; and attack on transition as Leafs would force stupid and dumbass passes that would get intercepted for an odd man rush for the panthers


I don't know about you; but I see a pattern here you know....

 

[Dreakmur]

Again.. unless skill is willing to sacrifice.

When Pit was at it's best, no one outworked, sacrificed more than Crosby, who was the most skilled.

If your best players work the hardest and set the example, your job as a coach almost becomes non-existent.

Sounds like you’re saying sacrifice is the only requirement, and skill is just a bonus….

 

[CincoHolio]

Incredible that people can't just admit they were wrong about their evaluation of Stone Hands™ both with the Leafs and now with the Oilers.

Personally I thought his success was awesome to witness from 4th line to 1st line mainstay with the Leafs, to a now 50-goal scorer (pacing).

I guess some are just set with the belief that you are what you are as a rookie/sophomore in the league and can't possibly develop further?

I always saw Hyman on a Marchand-light-like trajectory. It was clear his offensive game was still developing in front of our eyes even as a Leafs player.

Couple his incremental offensive improvements with his other-worldly work effort, yeah...still don't understand why guys like Engvall and Kerfoot were chosen over guys like him.

I suspect a certain GM's ego played a part in choosing to retain these players over Hyman. Such an incredibly average GM made to look like some kind of (falsely anointed) wunderkind thanks in no small part to having the backing of a world-class support system around him. Good riddance KD you schmuck!

 

[Fogelhund]

Habs Series:
Habs started playing physical and clog neutral zone keeping Leafs to the outside again; Keefe didn't break up Matthews-Marner duo

Tavares out early with a concussion, Matthews injured with a slash, requiring surgery... no team is going to win, with their two top C's neutered... I mean that was just the facts in that series.

The rest I can't argue... though mostly I'd say the core 4 weren't good enough, as much as blaming anyone else. Sure, some shared blame, but elite players need to be elite when it counts.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

After the core 4, the biggest forward contracts were Kerfoot @ $3.5 mil, and Mikheyev at $1.645 mil... Sure, we can make the argument that we should have traded Kerfoot, and kept Hyman, but that's still only $3.5, and I doubt that would have been enough as he signed for $5.5 mil.

Hyman was making $2.25 million his last season here. Combining that cap hit of his with Kerfoot’s $3.5 million and the sum total is $5.75 million between them. It could’ve been done, Leafs just needed to be willing to move Kerfoot which it doesn’t seem like they were.

Hyman did have injury issues and 7 years for a player who plays a physically taxing style entering his 30s is risky. But if the choice was between re-signing Hyman or holding on to Kerfoot I’d rather the Leafs just signed Hyman. Kerfoot never solidified himself as 3C and was often used as a LW anyway and Hyman would’ve looked better there than him.

 

[ACC1224]

Go back and look at the Salary Cap. We simply didn't have enough room, to pay Hyman $5 mil. That was the end of the flat cap, for three years in a row at $81.5 mil.

After the core 4, the biggest forward contracts were Kerfoot @ $3.5 mil, and Mikheyev at $1.645 mil... Sure, we can make the argument that we should have traded Kerfoot, and kept Hyman, but that's still only $3.5, and I doubt that would have been enough as he signed for $5.5 mil.

It wasn't about wanting him, we just couldn't afford him at that price... it's that simple. Had we not had the Covid period, we would have likely kept him... .that's just stuff happening, not anybody's fault.

As I recall it the issue was more the length of contract not the dollar amount.

 

[Fogelhund]

As I recall it the issue was more the length of contract not the dollar amount.

Numbers don't lie. There wasn't the $. Go back and look at the numbers.

 

[Stephen]

Hyman and Kadri really beat up on the Penguins this past weekend.

 

[Jojalu]

Sounds like you’re saying sacrifice is the only requirement, and skill is just a bonus….

I will put it this way, which is a little far fetched.

I am sure as fans, all of us would love to win a cup. Our will and sacrifice would be tremendous if given the chance. Problem is we don't have enough skill to be considered.

If you took a team of hard working guys with skill, they would crush a team of hard working guys. Like Canada destroying some of the weaker teams in International play.

At the NHL level, skill will always matter, but to win, you need both. For a lack of a better term, you need to have the dawg inside to be a champion.

There are lots of guys who were just on the right team at the right time and won, but winning does demand sacrifice.