Around the League playoff edition

[SettlementRichie10]

I suppose it's nice to know that it isn't just HF that completely disrespects the Kings

We're always going to have to deal with that due to the Kings mediocre regular seasons during their dominant years. Their 2014 run was the only season they finished with 100 points or more.

2012: 40-27-15, 95 points, 8th seed
2013: 27-16-5, 59 points, 5th seed
2014: 46-28-8, 100 points, 3rd in the Pacific

People just have a difficult time wrapping their heads around a team performing adequately in the regular season, but then cranking it up to another gear during the playoffs. We rarely see that executed in professional sports. In fact, that was the big narrative with the Clippers this season. They sort of coasted throughout the regular season, said they would turn it on for the playoffs, but were knocked out in the second round.

People don't know how to quantify that kind of intangible. They only see an average regular season record, and dismiss the postseason record, when they should be doing the opposite. Also keep in mind that casual fans tend to vastly overvalue the regular season anyway. For a large majority of them, the regular season is all they have.

The reality is that both of the Kings postseason runs are littered with historical and statistical marvels NO OTHER TEAM in the cap era can match.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

First and maybe last time I agree with Ken campbell, OEL might be the most overrated dman in the NHL due to anonymity in AZ.

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/when-did-oel-become-the-second-coming-of-nicklas-lidstrom

 

[cyclones22]

The reality is that both of the Kings postseason runs are littered with historical and statistical marvels NO OTHER TEAM in the cap era can match.

Exactly. The record books have all sorts of references to those Kings teams. Whereas for some of those "top" teams since 2011 are only listed as the Cup champion and that's it.

 

[cyclones22]

First and maybe last time I agree with Ken campbell, OEL might be the most overrated dman in the NHL due to anonymity in AZ.

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/when-did-oel-become-the-second-coming-of-nicklas-lidstrom

I've always thought he was overrated. Back when I cared to look during their heydays, OEL had similar numbers to EK in terms of goals scored against when he was on the ice. If those guys were so great, why the hell were so many goals scored against them when their teams weren't garbage at the time. One thing they were both elite at was getting pucks through traffic to the net. That was undeniable. But the rest? Bleh.

 

[tny760]

First and maybe last time I agree with Ken campbell, OEL might be the most overrated dman in the NHL due to anonymity in AZ.

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/when-did-oel-become-the-second-coming-of-nicklas-lidstrom

i mean i think it's basically a given that az absorbs some of that salary, no one really should have impetus to dive on that contract as it stands

i dunno, he's soft as f*** but he's a "franchise" defenseman in that he has a higher ceiling.. he's worth something. i think pointing to "not winning anything" and norris votes as part his argument is a bit of pedantry when it comes to that team the last few years but like he said, calling him underrated when he's being paid that much is a bit silly. i suppose that makes me call him "somewhere between overrated and underrated" which doesn't mean a whole lot. a PP threat right? is he gonna play out that contract? ehhhhh maybe not. i think there are other defensemen that would be more likely to

all said and done i don't think anyone's gonna be too upset if they grab him with what, $2M retained? az sheds some contracts after next season, back to status quo. players certainly aren't getting any cheaper these last couple years..

i like the biffed outro on that video though, someone forgot to edit it out

 

[RaymondReddington]

I always thought OEL was a hell of a good defenseman. Don't know how much he has left in the tank. Would be rejuvenated to get out of Phoenix.

 

[kilowatt]

I think OEL might actually thrive with a new team, but it is certainly concerning to me that he hasn't been a positive plus/minus player for seven consecutive seasons. I think he would be a really good number two defenseman, but he has a cap hit of $8,250,000.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kings fans may want to cover their eyes or cancel their subscriptions to avoid reading this.

The Blues had the pick, but they didn’t have Tarasenko — yet. After Granlund went No. 9 to Minnesota, they took Schwartz at No. 14 because of the Russian factor, then sweated out the next selection by the host of the draft, the Los Angeles Kings.

“We didn’t know who (the Kings) were taking, so there was a nervous moment there, hoping that they wouldn’t take Tarasenko,” Kekalainen said.
When they took University of North Dakota defenseman Derek Forbort, the Blues’ reaction was a little livelier than usual.

“There’s always a little bump when you get the guy you hoped you were going to get with your pick,” Kekalainen said. “We felt we got two really good forwards. Getting the second first-round pick was the key to being able to take a flier (on Tarasenko) and say, ‘OK, when he comes, he comes. Let’s just take a chance on it.’ I saw him enough that we had confidence in keeping him very high on our list and knowing who we were drafting.”

 

[Anguyen92]

Whistles.... you're right. That is painful. I'm looking at that draft and Toffoli got picked by us at #47. I wonder since we look at it 10 years in hindsight, what's going through the GMs' heads during that time when they make the decisions they make?

 

[kingsboy11]

Yeah this is one I'd really like ask Lombardi. Hickey and to a lesser extent Teubert I understand at the time, but Forbort over Tarasenko? Surely by that time we had built up our defensive core by that point with Hickey, Doughty, Martinez, and Voynov in the system.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah this is one I'd really like ask Lombardi. Hickey and to a lesser extent Teubert I understand at the time, but Forbort over Tarasenko? Surely by that time we had built up our defensive core by that point with Hickey, Doughty, Martinez, and Voynov in the system.

Between 2007 and 2010, the Kings made five 1st round picks. Only one out of those five was a forward, and four of them were defensemen. Of those four defensemen selected, only one of them became a top pairing defenseman, two became depth/spare defensemen, and one was a complete bust.

 

[Stimpythecat]

If that Dubnyk to the sharks deal goes through, the kings need to send Guerin a fruit basket or something.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Even better that that was the era of the BIG GRITTY SHUTDOWN DMAN 1st rounder. Man, I don't miss that.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Yeah this is one I'd really like ask Lombardi. Hickey and to a lesser extent Teubert I understand at the time, but Forbort over Tarasenko? Surely by that time we had built up our defensive core by that point with Hickey, Doughty, Martinez, and Voynov in the system.

Dean had a major blind spot with European prospects in general. It’s honestly kind of a miracle he hit a home run on Voynov.

These things usually wind up evening out. We shouldn’t forget there are about nine teams who to this day kick themselves about passing over Kopitar. But yeah. Missing that clearly on Tarasenko and taking f***ing milquetoast never-was Forbort instead will sting for a long, long time.

 

[KINGS17]

As expected, it is being reported Lehner is signing a 5-year, $25M contract with Vegas. Fleury will no doubt be moved, but where?

Fleury has two years left on a contract with a $7M cap hit. Some team should be able to fleece Vegas on this deal and get additional assets for taking Fleury off their hands.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

As expected, it is being reported Lehner is signing a 5-year, $25M contract with Vegas. Fleury will no doubt be moved, but where?

Fleury has two years left on a contract with a $7M cap hit. Some team should be able to fleece Vegas on this deal and get additional assets for taking Fleury off their hands.

Agree, that’s gonna be a tough player to move without massive retention or tossing in a pick/young player.

 

[KINGS17]

Why did it take the Rangers 54 years to win a Stanley Cup after winning the Stanley Cup in 1940?

22 Things You Might Not Know About the Stanley Cup
21. It also might hold a curse, among other things…

When Messier and the Rangers won in 1994, it ended a record 54-year championship drought for the Broadway Blueshirts (the team hadn’t won since the 1939-40 season). Fans believe that the curse might have been brought on because the Rangers disrespected the Cup.
During the ’39-’40 season, the mortgage on the Rangers’ home rink—at the time the third incarnation of Madison Square Garden—was finally paid off. To celebrate, the management of the team symbolically burned the mortgage documents in the bowl of the Stanley Cup. Then, left-winger Lynn Patrick and his teammates allegedly urinated in the Cup’s bowl to bizarrely celebrate their victory. The Rangers finally took home the trophy again in 1994, but they haven’t won hockey’s ultimate prize since.

 

[KingsFan7824]

We're always going to have to deal with that due to the Kings mediocre regular seasons during their dominant years. Their 2014 run was the only season they finished with 100 points or more.

2012: 40-27-15, 95 points, 8th seed
2013: 27-16-5, 59 points, 5th seed
2014: 46-28-8, 100 points, 3rd in the Pacific

People just have a difficult time wrapping their heads around a team performing adequately in the regular season, but then cranking it up to another gear during the playoffs. We rarely see that executed in professional sports. In fact, that was the big narrative with the Clippers this season. They sort of coasted throughout the regular season, said they would turn it on for the playoffs, but were knocked out in the second round.

People don't know how to quantify that kind of intangible. They only see an average regular season record, and dismiss the postseason record, when they should be doing the opposite. Also keep in mind that casual fans tend to vastly overvalue the regular season anyway. For a large majority of them, the regular season is all they have.

The reality is that both of the Kings postseason runs are littered with historical and statistical marvels NO OTHER TEAM in the cap era can match.

That sounds way too defensive. Yeah, I don't have any friends, but that's because people aren't smart enough to get me? That's sort of how that sounds.

I would say it's the exact opposite. Casual fans, maybe even fans in general, tend to overrate the playoffs. They must've been the best team, they won the Cup. Even winning the President's trophy doesn't necessarily mean you were the best team though. The title best is too vague. Win that trophy and the Cup, maybe you've got a claim then.

I think that we might even tend to underrate the regular season around here, because of the golden years. They won, so we can discount their legit struggles. Were we not frustrated with how 11-12 was going? Was it always clear as day that that team was going to steamroll through the playoffs?

Between 2007 and 2010, the Kings made five 1st round picks. Only one out of those five was a forward, and four of them were defensemen. Of those four defensemen selected, only one of them became a top pairing defenseman, two became depth/spare defensemen, and one was a complete bust.

Just like they lucked out with Kopitar falling, that Muzzin ended up being able to hang with Doughty extended the good times. Not sure what happens in 2014 in Muzzin doesn't end up being as good as he was. He basically took the spot Hickey was probably expected to occupy.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Just like they lucked out with Kopitar falling, that Muzzin ended up being able to hang with Doughty extended the good times. Not sure what happens in 2014 in Muzzin doesn't end up being as good as he was. He basically took the spot Hickey was probably expected to occupy.

I'm sure Keaton Ellerby or Davis Drewiske would've been able to handle those minutes.

 

[LAKings88]

Is it just me that thinks Matt Murray is a huge risk?

He came into a situation where Pitt had dominate teams. Played well, had some help, was also solid in the AHL but has seemed to derail the past couple of years to the point Pitt wants to move on already. Is it more a matter of cap? Pitt doesn’t seem to think he will rebound or they’d keep him. So many guys on the market currently. Is Murray that sought after?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That sounds way too defensive. Yeah, I don't have any friends, but that's because people aren't smart enough to get me? That's sort of how that sounds.

I would say it's the exact opposite. Casual fans, maybe even fans in general, tend to overrate the playoffs. They must've been the best team, they won the Cup. Even winning the President's trophy doesn't necessarily mean you were the best team though. The title best is too vague. Win that trophy and the Cup, maybe you've got a claim then.

I think that we might even tend to underrate the regular season around here, because of the golden years. They won, so we can discount their legit struggles. Were we not frustrated with how 11-12 was going? Was it always clear as day that that team was going to steamroll through the playoffs?

Just like they lucked out with Kopitar falling, that Muzzin ended up being able to hang with Doughty extended the good times. Not sure what happens in 2014 in Muzzin doesn't end up being as good as he was. He basically took the spot Hickey was probably expected to occupy.

The playoffs are the championship tournament. Maybe remove it and we'll place more importance on the regular season and focus on building teams to win 82 round robin games instead of consecutive 7-game series. But then people would find a way to discount that, too.

In the meantime, the SC is the one that counts, and winning a series vs. an opponent with matchups and coaching chess matches is more impressive than winning random one-off games in December. You can't just 'get lucky' for four consecutive four-of-sevens.

And re: the Kings they got to shed that fluke label by going 10-1 in playoff series across three years losing only to the Hawks.

 

[Stimpythecat]

The playoffs are the championship tournament. Maybe remove it and we'll place more importance on the regular season and focus on building teams to win 82 round robin games instead of consecutive 7-game series. But then people would find a way to discount that, too.

In the meantime, the SC is the one that counts, and winning a series vs. an opponent with matchups and coaching chess matches is more impressive than winning random one-off games in December. You can't just 'get lucky' for four consecutive four-of-sevens.

And re: the Kings they got to shed that fluke label by going 10-1 in playoff series across three years losing only to the Hawks.

I remember one of the devils (Fayne?) going on a radio talk show after the series was over and just talked crap about the kings being a fluke.

 

[KINGS17]

The playoffs are the championship tournament. Maybe remove it and we'll place more importance on the regular season and focus on building teams to win 82 round robin games instead of consecutive 7-game series. But then people would find a way to discount that, too.

In the meantime, the SC is the one that counts, and winning a series vs. an opponent with matchups and coaching chess matches is more impressive than winning random one-off games in December. You can't just 'get lucky' for four consecutive four-of-sevens.

And re: the Kings they got to shed that fluke label by going 10-1 in playoff series across three years losing only to the Hawks.

Yeah, I never cared where the Kings finished in 2012-2014. They were the ultimate 7-game series sausage grinder, and they made a ton of sausage in those three playoff runs (39-23 record). There is such a thing as being built for the playoffs.

 

[Anguyen92]

I mean before they got their cups, teams like Capitals and Lightings were always laughed at when it comes to playoff time. Great regular season success and won president's trophy, but something happens when they couldn't put it together come playoff time. For the Capitals, getting their butts beaten by the Penguins and for the Bolts, losing to Columbus of all teams in a sweep during the time both team achieve winning the best regular season trophy. The Canucks won that trophy two years in a row, but it meant nothing to them if they couldn't win the cup and lost to the teams that won their cups.

Isn't that what we've been advertised on and on about? That it's always about the cup? To get it, means trying get to the playoffs in any position and to have a great team that built to win 4 best-of-7 playoff series. Honestly, it's just a big challenge to do if not tougher than having a great regular season.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

That sounds way too defensive. Yeah, I don't have any friends, but that's because people aren't smart enough to get me? That's sort of how that sounds.

I would say it's the exact opposite. Casual fans, maybe even fans in general, tend to overrate the playoffs. They must've been the best team, they won the Cup. Even winning the President's trophy doesn't necessarily mean you were the best team though. The title best is too vague. Win that trophy and the Cup, maybe you've got a claim then.

I think that we might even tend to underrate the regular season around here, because of the golden years. They won, so we can discount their legit struggles. Were we not frustrated with how 11-12 was going? Was it always clear as day that that team was going to steamroll through the playoffs?



Just like they lucked out with Kopitar falling, that Muzzin ended up being able to hang with Doughty extended the good times. Not sure what happens in 2014 in Muzzin doesn't end up being as good as he was. He basically took the spot Hickey was probably expected to occupy.

We were only worried about how 11/12 was going because at one point there was a real risk we would miss the playoffs.

I don’t know how to respond to the rest of your Jungian psychoanalysis.

Most importantly, ask ten random hockey fans if they would rather win the President’s Trophy or win the Cup. All ten would choose the Cup. The postseason matters much, much more than the regular season, and that’s reflected in how literally every hockey fan values regular season success versus postseason success.