Around the league part 2

[Fishhead]

If Gabe stays healthy, he will continue to improve. He has a tendency to start hot, he's always looked good in pre-season. He could light it up this year.

His health was generally good last year, but he's going to have to keep up his regimen because maintaining his back is going to be a little more of a challenge in the freezing peg compared to LA. His health was the biggest risk in this trade. I'm not gonna lie, as much as I love the guy I held my breath every time he went down awkwardly. Still, I'm pulling for him, he's a great story and plays the game with a smile on his face.

Despite how slow PLD looks in the preseason, don't sleep on him. Gabe was on a great pace last year but PLD is usually substantially above that level. He would have been over 70 points last year if he hadn't picked up that knock down the stretch, and that is on a more defensive-minded team. He could struggle a bit, but he could also lead the team in scoring.

 

[DyslexicTom]

As discussed by others, Vilardi has a very real shot at making the trade look ridiculously bad as early as this season. Frankly, I'm all for it; this current regime has got to go. They're awful.

 

[bland]

If Vilardi has a better season than PLD holy shit will this board go nuclear.

Dubois can outscore Vilardi by 25 and will still be a stupid trade.

The deal happened because none of the players the Kings drafted with 1st round picks to play C could effectively play as top-6 C's in the NHL, not even ones they used top 5 picks on. And it seems Vilardi is back at wing in Winnipeg, despite some Jets fans and media saying he was going to be given a shot at C. Byfield was moved to wing because he was ineffective at C and Turcotte isn't skilled enough to be a scoring line center.

It was Blake fixing his own huge mistakes at the draft table and in not getting a deal done for Eichel, so in that sense he deserves a lot of blame, but they weren't winning the SC with 36 year old Kopi and Phil Danault as the 1-2 centers and had to act to fix it.

If any of Stutzle, Eichel or Zegras had been brought into the organization the Kings would not have been looking at PLD (no matter what the liars tell Pravda)

If they gave up the ghost and took an honest assessment of their properties, they most definitely could have developed one of those prospects - at least one - into bona-fide NHL center by now. But no, they doubled - no tripled down on their own delusions, contracted themselves into a corner with Mr. Surprised He Is Available (at a premium) three years in a row.

And they aren't any closer to winning a damn thing.

They CHOSE to follow this path, and its been a failure from the get-go. Blake is the worst general manager on this franchises history. Nobody has done less with more. Literally had all three options available:
A) Quality vets under contract
B) multiple top ten picks
C) Loads of cap space

Effed them all up. Can't win a round, can't develop a star, can't even ice a full team. Damn near every contract he has signed is an overpayment. Missteps in goal, accepted playing 4 RHDs without finding time to integrate Spence or Clarke.

Dubois is a paper tiger, just like Fiala. Empty points that don't translate into success, just highlights. Neither is a difference maker. The culture here flat out sucks and nobody wants to see it.

 

[Kurrilino]

If Gabe stays healthy, he will continue to improve. He has a tendency to start hot, he's always looked good in pre-season. He could light it up this year.

His health was generally good last year, but he's going to have to keep up his regimen because maintaining his back is going to be a little more of a challenge in the freezing peg compared to LA. His health was the biggest risk in this trade. I'm not gonna lie, as much as I love the guy I held my breath every time he went down awkwardly. Still, I'm pulling for him, he's a great story and plays the game with a smile on his face.

Despite how slow PLD looks in the preseason, don't sleep on him. Gabe was on a great pace last year but PLD is usually substantially above that level. He would have been over 70 points last year if he hadn't picked up that knock down the stretch, and that is on a more defensive-minded team. He could struggle a bit, but he could also lead the team in scoring.

This post reminds me a lot of the Iafallo arguments.
Year after year i had to listen to what points or goals he is on pace and millions of reasons
why the potential was not reached.

In reality he never cracked the 20 goal mark but blocked 4 mill of cap space.
It also doesn't matter why a player isn't finishing a pace, the NHL has 82 regular season games
regardless of a players circumstances.

Until proven otherwise, PLD is a 60 point player without any drive or work ethics.
He is good for the hat trick at 7-1 or the 8-2 but is nowhere to be seen to even a game at 1-1
or scores the 2-1 lead
PLD is one of the guys i love to have on the opponents roster, not mine.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If any of Stutzle, Eichel or Zegras had been brought into the organization the Kings would not have been looking at PLD (no matter what the liars tell Pravda)

I disagree not because i disagree with you on their abilities but I disagree that the kings would have had a clue what to do

Stutzle and Zegras would be on ontario's 3rd line right now learning to check

 

[Herby]

I disagree not because i disagree with you on their abilities but I disagree that the kings would have had a clue what to do

Stutzle and Zegras would be on ontario's 3rd line right now learning to check

This is just flat out hyperbole, and you know I am not one to defend The Beach Boys/Country Club Crew that run things, they have done an abysmal job evaluating and developing youth here.

But, Byfield played 40 games as a 19 year old, Stutzle, who is multiple levels better than Byfield ever will be, would not be in the minors in LA. Eventually we have to come to the realization that the Kings completely butchered the evaluation part of the 2020 and 2019 drafts and not just the development part (which was also completely butchered). And that is not so much a knock on QB (who I still think can be a PLD player if all goes well) but just great praise for what a special player Stutzle already is at 21, and could develop further into. Myself and many others were given grief here for saying quickly that it was apparent it was a mistake, but it doesn't take 4 years to realize Justin Jefferson was way better than Jalen Raegor, it doesn't take 4 years to realize Kevin Durant was way better than Greg Oden, it doesn't take 4 years to realize Anze Kopitar was way better than (insert any player taken between Crosby and him in the 05 draft). Just as with Byfield, it didn't take four years to realize that Alex Turcotte just wasn't anywhere close to being a Top 5 type talent, it was apparent right away during his freshman season that the pick was a huge mistake. Copp's and Cogliano's are valuable depth pieces to a team, and certainly have value, but you have to get more from a #5 pick in a strong draft.

Rob Blake made two massive franchise altering blunders in back to back drafts and since he unfortunately wasn't fired for it, he was given rope to pivot away from those picks, which by now should both be knocking on the door if not already overtaken Kopitar on the C depth chart. Which is a normal and typical progression for a #2 and #5 picks entering their fourth and fifth seasons in an organization. I don’t blame the scouts for 2019 as I have no reason to believe Rosen is lying, as he has no history of lying, unlike guys like Yannetti, Murray, Emerson who have told clearly verifiable lies to the Mayor of Pravda and Jessie on their podcasts. Yannetti in particular has told so many lies (that can be fact checked with a 15 second google search) that I can't believe that people on this forum take anything he says about anything to do with the Kings seriously.

I hate hate hate hate that the Kings weren't picking super high in the 2022 and in particular the 2023 draft where there were likely franchise players at the top of the board, guys that truly could have been our Aaron Rodgers (if Kopitar was Brett Favre) and we were denied the shot at having these guys because management felt they it was best for the organization to be faux-contenders in 2022, 2023 and 2024. Bedard was unlikely just because of lottery odds, but had the Kings not brought in Danault, Fiala, VA, Gavrikov etc. they could have been in the position to draft a player like Fantilli, and you just watch how good he is going to be, right away. This is the type of player you need to add to a franchise for a rebuild to be successful, and the Kings never did and never tried to correct the fact they didn't.

But I can't change what they did in the summer of 2021, unfortunately none of us can, so I just evaluate the moves made after that, and with this 3 year window to try and win a SC (with Cam Talbot in goal) they had to fix the C position, because you aren't winning in that window with 36 year old Kopitar and 3C Danault as your 1-2 centers. And half-assing going for it in this defined 3 year window by not addressing that gaping hole, would be an even more poor decision than ending your rebuild without a single star forward added during it.

 

[Fishhead]

This post reminds me a lot of the Iafallo arguments.
Year after year i had to listen to what points or goals he is on pace and millions of reasons
why the potential was not reached.

In reality he never cracked the 20 goal mark but blocked 4 mill of cap space.
It also doesn't matter why a player isn't finishing a pace, the NHL has 82 regular season games
regardless of a players circumstances.

Until proven otherwise, PLD is a 60 point player without any drive or work ethics.
He is good for the hat trick at 7-1 or the 8-2 but is nowhere to be seen to even a game at 1-1
or scores the 2-1 lead
PLD is one of the guys i love to have on the opponents roster, not mine.

I get that argument.

But until proven otherwise, doesn't that make Vilardi a 40-point 3rd liner who is always hurt and making $3.5M per year? He has 41 career goals and he only scores in blowouts on the pp. You are basically describing an injury-prone Iafallo. And that is what we should hang on to? PLD is one year older and has played almost 300 more NHL games and has over 3 times the goals.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[King'sPawn]

This is just flat out hyperbole, and you know I am not one to defend The Beach Boys/Country Club Crew that run things, they have done an abysmal job evaluating and developing youth here.

Clarke and Spence were in the juniors and AHL while Durzi and Walker were playing last year. If you don't think the Kings would have treated Stutzle or Zegras with some slow boil approach, that's 100% on you at this point.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Clarke and Spence were in the juniors and AHL while Durzi and Walker were playing last year. If you don't think the Kings would have treated Stutzle or Zegras with some slow boil approach, that's 100% on you at this point.

So then explain Byfield playing at 19, Bjornfoot playing at 20, Anderson playing at 21, Kaliyev playing at 20, Vilardi playing at 20 etc

 

[Herby]

Clarke and Spence were in the juniors and AHL while Durzi and Walker were playing last year. If you don't think the Kings would have treated Stutzle or Zegras with some slow boil approach, that's 100% on you at this point.

Byfield played 50 NHL games before his 20th birthday, in his age 20 season he spent the vast majority of the season playing with the teams best center and best winger. I believe Stutzle, with the type of player he is would have been a star in LA by now too even with similar usage. I think saying otherwise is greatly ignoring his talent level (which is superstar level) or is attempting to make excuses for the Kings failures to get good ROI on so many picks.

This is another thing that Yannetti consistently lies about when he makes the podcast tours, the "We have always slow cooked all of our players, going back to when I first got here, and slow cooking won us two Stanley Cups". That is a LIE! (which amazingly is not only not called out by anyone, the lie is amplified and pushed as fact by unprofessional journalists). Anze Kopitar was not slow cooked, Drew Doughty was not slow cooked, Jack Johnson was not slow cooked, Wayne Simmonds was not slow cooked, Oscar Moller was not slow cooked, Patrick O'Sullivan was not slow cooked.

Yannetti is lying because he wants to fool the fanbase (and it works on people like Axl) into thinking that this is a normal way things work with what are supposed to be elite prospects to cover up for his and his bosses huge failures. The problem is they have not drafted any elite prospects (I have hope for Clarke, but to soon to say) in so long because the evaluation part is broken, which people don't want to admit, and just want to blame it all on development. If Brandt Clarke spends most of the season dominating the AHL and doesn't get NHL time then come back here and we can talk, but as of now Clarke hasn't really been handled crazily. Not a lot of great defenseman were in the NHL at 19, it's a lot different for them than with forwards.

 

[Fishhead]

Clarke and Spence were in the juniors and AHL while Durzi and Walker were playing last year. If you don't think the Kings would have treated Stutzle or Zegras with some slow boil approach, that's 100% on you at this point.

At a minimum one of the two is in the minors. Spence wasnt fantastic at last years camp, so I can at least see him down at the start. Clarke was visibly better than a chunk of starters, absolutely no reason to send him down. I’m fine with using the AHL, but not when its that obvious. There was nothing for Clarke to learn in the OHL.

Zegras would have been down for sure, terrible defensive awareness. The showboating wouldnt fly either. I think Stutzle could force his way in.

 

[Fishhead]

So then explain Byfield playing at 19, Bjornfoot playing at 20, Anderson playing at 21, Kaliyev playing at 20, Vilardi playing at 20 etc

Anderson was college, but the rest saw a good amount of AHL time. Maybe not total slow boil but Anderson was the only one who stuck right away.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Anderson was college, but the rest saw a good amount of AHL time. Maybe not total slow boil but Anderson was the only one who stuck right away.

Define a good amount - Kaliyev 40 AHL games....Vilardi, 32 AHL games, Bjornfoot - 44 AHL Games....

That's not slow boil.....

 

[Herby]

Define a good amount - Kaliyev 40 AHL games....Vilardi, 32 AHL games, Bjornfoot - 44 AHL Games....

That's not slow boil.....

Bjornfot was also an NHL regular at 19.

He was criminally mishandled in ways no other team would have done after that, but he was a reg at 19.

 

[Fishhead]

Define a good amount - Kaliyev 40 AHL games....Vilardi, 32 AHL games, Bjornfoot - 44 AHL Games....

That's not slow boil.....

Some of your numbers are off, you forgot more recent seasons. Check hockeydb.

Kaliyev - 40 AHL games

Vilardi - 75 AHL games

Bjornfot - 95 AHL games

Also remember that COVID cancelled parts of two AHL seasons, they had less than 100 games combined over those two years so those AHL numbers are low. Kaliyev has 40 games but was in the AHL all season after playing a single NHL game, for example. In two of his seasons Vilardi played more in the AHL than the NHL. Same with Bjornfot.

So not slow boil, but that's substantial AHL time for at least Vilardi and Bjornfot, while Arty had a full season.

 

[Fishhead]

Bjornfot was also an NHL regular at 19.

He was criminally mishandled in ways no other team would have done after that, but he was a reg at 19.

The two biggest headscratchers for me are Bjornfot and Clarke. Tobi was slow coming back from injury, but he was still better than what we were rolling out. Clarke should have been a regular. Spence is borderline bothersome, but I get that a little more.

Byfield - bad injury. Vilardi - bad injury. I get those two. It worked for Vilardi, hoping the same for QB.

Now that they've loaded the offense, think about what it would look like if it was

Doughty-Anderson
Gavrikov- Clarke
Bjornfot-Spence-Roy

With the experience gained by the three young guys. That's a pretty strong, albeit softer core.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Some of your numbers are off, you forgot more recent seasons. Check hockeydb.

Kaliyev - 40 AHL games

Vilardi - 75 AHL games

Bjornfot - 95 AHL games

Also remember that COVID cancelled parts of two AHL seasons, they had less than 100 games combined over those two years so those AHL numbers are low. Kaliyev has 40 games but was in the AHL all season after playing a single NHL game, for example. In two of his seasons Vilardi played more in the AHL than the NHL. Same with Bjornfot.

So not slow boil, but that's substantial AHL time for at least Vilardi and Bjornfot, while Arty had a full season.

No, what I stated is BEFORE they were put in roles full time etc, what they did AFTER that, is inconsequential to the argument at hand, at them slow boiling prospects, it's clear they do not.

 

[tigermask48]

No, what I stated is BEFORE they were put in roles full time etc, what they did AFTER that, is inconsequential to the argument at hand, at them slow boiling prospects, it's clear they do not.

So you're ignoring the fact that initially all three of them failed to secure a roster spot full-time? Lol. Ok.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

So you're ignoring the fact that initially all three of them failed to secure a roster spot full-time? Lol. Ok.

Nope, not ignoring it at all, the argument was that the Kings slow boil their prospects, don't play them....

When there is a f*** ton of proof...that that is WRONG. It's 100% f***ing wrong and people refuse to accept that, for some god known reason, it's wrong.

They play a LOT of young players, right away, some, they SHOULD HAVE SLOW BOILED....but they did not.....

 

[King'sPawn]

So you're ignoring the fact that initially all three of them failed to secure a roster spot full-time? Lol. Ok.

Ignoring facts is the strategy. Even when Kings management say that's what they do.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings needed a center more than anything, so I've always understood the logic behind the PLD trade.

But if Vilardi really breaks out this year and outscores him, the optics on this move are going to look really bad.

I still think Kupari has upside as well. Watch Iafallo finally hit 20 goals.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Ignoring facts is the strategy. Even when Kings management say that's what they do.

So is changing the argument, which is what he tried to do.....the fact that the players failed to secure anything, doesn't preclude the fact that the Kings organization PLAYED THEM WITH MINIMAL AHL TIME.....

It's non sensical and played by people who are too f***ing stupid to keep up with the conversation.

 

[Fishhead]

No, what I stated is BEFORE they were put in roles full time etc, what they did AFTER that, is inconsequential to the argument at hand, at them slow boiling prospects, it's clear they do not.

They weren't full time roles, if they were they wouldn't have went back down. There are injuries and such that drive roster decisions. It's not in a vacuum.

I'm not saying they don't play their young guys, they obviously do. And I said it's not a total slow boil where it's 3 years in the minors, etc. But they certainly take their time and almost never just thrust guys in It's not commont for Kings players not to get a good amount of AHL time. Nothing more than that.

So is changing the argument, which is what he tried to do.....the fact that the players failed to secure anything, doesn't preclude the fact that the Kings organization PLAYED THEM WITH MINIMAL AHL TIME.....

It's non sensical and played by people who are too f***ing stupid to keep up with the conversation.

Wow, welcome to ignore dude.

 

[tigermask48]

Right, it's an understandable trade, but it's also hard to swallow when you think that it was a trade that happened because none of the 900 centers the Kings signed or drafted panned out and took the 2C spot. Doubly hard to swallow when the only one that looked like they might, Vilardi was included in the trade for PLD.

 

[Schmooley]

The Kings needed a center more than anything, so I've always understood the logic behind the PLD trade.

But if Vilardi really breaks out this year and outscores him, the optics on this move are going to look really bad.

I still think Kupari has upside as well. Watch Iafallo finally hit 20 goals.

If the optics end up looking really bad is Blake put on the hotseat?
As much as I hated Iafallo as a first liner he was a great depth piece and had a really good playoff last year. This trade could end up taking away more than it gives the team even if PLD plays well.
Moving Iafallos salary (or Grundstrum+Lizotte salaries) for a goalie may have been the smarter move for Blake to secure his job than a middle 6 center though it was an area of need also.
Also lets not forget the cost he paid to get and retain Gavrikov. Hes great and we know what he brings now so the price is overlooked but Blake paid a ton.