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Around the league part 2

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Here's how I feel about Florida giving the Oilers hope and then snatching it away at the end.
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For all the talk about how you have to win when you get the chance, Florida says hello. I mean, I've tried to forget the 2023 SCF happened but it did.

Love how heavy Florida came out last night but hated how they seemed to go into the shell in the 3rd. Some real dicey moments there. Real frightening watching Edmonton in those spots since, against LA, it usually feels like the puck is going to wind up in the net.

Edmonton probably beats anyone in Round 1, and that isn't me being Hoven and excusing the Kings. It is the hardest trophy to win because the battle of attrition is real. You have to take a bite out of these guys and it feels like the Kings have been on a diet against them as each series has occurred.

I'm super petty so the curse continuing while the Kings have won two cups since the stick measurement is fantastic. Seeing my guy Keith Tkachuk lift the Cup was awesome as well. My fandom is LA Kings/Carolina Panthers/Detroit Tigers so I don't get many wins: I'll take last night and run with it.
 
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SmytheKing said:
Do people who are talking about Bobrovsky getting the Conn Smythe not get that it's the MVP for the entire playoffs? Here's his statline:

Games: 24
GAA: 2.32
Sv%: .906

Does that look like what a Conn Smythe winner would have? Here's Quick's line in 2012 when he won:

Games: 20
GAAL: 1.41
Sv%: .946

McDavid almost broke the all-time playoff points record and you think he shouldn't have won because the other teams goalie had one great game in the Finals and one or two other good ones? The childish hate for McDavid can be ridiculous.
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You’re not thinking of context though. McDavid was held in check during the biggest moments. He had zero points in two Game 7s and was mediocre for most of the final. He scored a bunch of points in a stat padding performance in Game 4 when the bottom 6 had already gotten the ball rolling and yes, his best game was Game 5. Bobrovsky had more good games than McDavid in the final and was great through the first three rounds.
 
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bland said:
L

Okay, but now do Bobrovsky's stats for the three series leading up to the Finals if you want to include the stat padding McDavid piled up against us. Who cares if his numbers took a pounding against Edmonton, they play a highly offensive style of game and will score more goals than almost anybody. You cannot base importance of winning on compiled numbers when the style of game changes from opponent to opponent.

I don't care if McDavid has 5 points in a 6-2 win, the win is what matters in the playoffs. Playing like you need to score multiple points every period isn't always beneficial to your team, and if you are going to ride or die on one guy, and you have to ride him into the ground, then maybe you are setting yourself up for continual disappointment.

Bobrovsky was every bit as good in games 1-3 as McDavid was in 4 and 5, and he was MUCH better in game 7. He was more valuable in the Finals and every bit as valuable, if not more so, in rounds 1-3.
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Bob had a 2.20 GAA and a .908 Sv% in rounds 1-3. So much better than 2.32 and .906.

McDavid had 12 points against the Kings. 9 points against Vancouver. 10 points against Dallas. 11 points against Florida. That's 1.6 PPG over rounds 2-4 if you want to cherry pick the stats and take out the easy matchup. That's 38 points over the same amount of games. Tied for 6th all-time with Gretzky. Every bit as valuable my butt.

Again, the diminishing of McDavid via cherry picking is ridiculous. Everyone here talks about how Edmonton is a paper tiger for years and then when McDavid scores 42 points in the playoffs...suddenly he's just padding his stats. Like, who else was doing anything on that team? Hyman and his 4 points? Draisiatl and his 3 assists (2 in the 8-1 game)? RNH with 2 points?
 
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Nasti said:
You’re not thinking of context though. McDavid was held in check during the biggest moments. He had zero points in two Game 7s and was mediocre for most of the final. He scored a bunch of points in a stat padding performance in Game 4 when the bottom 6 had already gotten the ball rolling and yes, his best game was Game 5. Bobrovsky had more good games than McDavid in the final and was great through the first three rounds.
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Again with the "great" in the first three rounds. No he wasn't. He was average. Skinner had a 2.5 GAA and a .900 Sv% through the first three rounds. Was ANYONE saying he was "great" before the finals? Is the difference between Skinner and "great" .18 in GAA and .006 in Sv%? I mean, I won't go through the boards to see, but I could swear there were quite a few "Vancouver is going to show Edmonton what a real team plays like" and "Dallas is going to bulldoze Edmonton" and "Florida vs. Edmonton is men vs. boys" posts in there. So, I don't want to hear any "Edmonton had an easier path" stuff now.

Also, McDavid didn't have a good game last night at all. He tried to do too much and had zero legs at the end when they were needed most. Florida made some huge adjustments and basically shadowed him the whole game. That doesn't wipe out his entire run though. It isn't MVP of Game 7 of the Finals. It's MVP of the playoffs. He was the MVP of the playoffs.
 
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bland said:
And I would bet that he learns and adapts from this point forward. The big question is whether the pressure forces another Canadian almost-winner into caving in on themselves like most previous contenders. Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton in 06, Calgary before them. Ottawa in their run. They seem to have a fragility in them absent from other Cup losing teams.
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learns what?

How to play for a team that doesn't sink a ton of money into an AHL goalie and a sub-par defender?

Imagine this Oilers team if they had just not shot themselves in the foot on top of having some unbelievable all world talents.

Part of my beef with the McDavid narrative is that from my perspective his game never really changes that much. He's incredible. Full stop.

The problem with being consistently incredible is it's really really hard to elevate beyond being incredible.

McDavid continued to be incredible... right up the the final second when his TEAM lost.
 
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Mattias said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1805657429692076351
'

McDavid to undergo abdominal surgery. Drai playing with a broken rib and finger.

Pretty incredible to play through the playoffs. Wonder when they sustained these injuries. Drai certainly looked off during the finals.
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From Zach Laing, the guy who constantly audits every play for infractions and complains nonstop about the opposition, the guy has every excuse in the book and has been one of the primary offenders of the Mikey Anderson is public enemy #1 club

I'm gonna take that with a grain of salt until it's reported from someone who has seen daylight in the last few years
 
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Having fun reading the Oilers board and came across this gem. When in the hell did the Kings try to injure the Oilers? Hell, I wish they actually did.

"Yeah it sucks that two out four teams on this run took upon themselves to try and injure our stars instead of playing hockey. Hitting to hurt is one thing intending to injure is something else completely. Both LA and Vancouver employed the latter technique"
 
SmytheKing said:
Bob had a 2.20 GAA and a .908 Sv% in rounds 1-3. So much better than 2.32 and .906.

McDavid had 12 points against the Kings. 9 points against Vancouver. 10 points against Dallas. 11 points against Florida. That's 1.6 PPG over rounds 2-4 if you want to cherry pick the stats and take out the easy matchup. That's 38 points over the same amount of games. Tied for 6th all-time with Gretzky. Every bit as valuable my butt.

Again, the diminishing of McDavid via cherry picking is ridiculous. Everyone here talks about how Edmonton is a paper tiger for years and then when McDavid scores 42 points in the playoffs...suddenly he's just padding his stats. Like, who else was doing anything on that team? Hyman and his 4 points? Draisiatl and his 3 assists (2 in the 8-1 game)? RNH with 2 points?
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Number don’t tell the whole story though. Earlier you compared Bobrovsky’s numbers to Quick. It’s a much higher scoring league today than it was in 2012. Sorry but your performance in the big moments should count, especially when you’re on the losing team. Hell, Justin Williams won the Conn Smythe because he was Mr Game 7 and clutch as hell. Not because he scored the most (he didn’t).
 
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Nasti said:
Number don’t tell the whole story though. Earlier you compared Bobrovsky’s numbers to Quick. It’s a much higher scoring league today than it was in 2012. Sorry but your performance in the big moments should count, especially when you’re on the losing team. Hell, Justin Williams won the Conn Smythe because he was Mr Game 7 and clutch as hell. Not because he scored the most (he didn’t).
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Of course numbers don't tell the whole story. But when one guy has dominated the playoffs, and no one else does...that does tell a story.

Also, Williams had 25 points that year and the leader had 26. Let's not pretend he would have won if he had 13 points. That's more or less what you're arguing would have happened.

EDIT: Quick add too. Vasilevsky was the last goalie to win a Conn Smythe and that was just a couple of years ago. He also had 5 shutouts, a 1.9 GAA and a Sv% of .937. Bob just didn't have the numbers. He was the only reason they won Game 1 for sure, and made some nice saves last night, but he wasn't the MVP of the playoffs. There's just no argument for him. Florida won as a team and they deserved it, but it was a different guy every night.
 
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All The Kings Men said:
learns what?

How to play for a team that doesn't sink a ton of money into an AHL goalie and a sub-par defender?

Imagine this Oilers team if they had just not shot themselves in the foot on top of having some unbelievable all world talents.

Part of my beef with the McDavid narrative is that from my perspective his game never really changes that much. He's incredible. Full stop.

The problem with being consistently incredible is it's really really hard to elevate beyond being incredible.

McDavid continued to be incredible... right up the the final second when his TEAM lost.
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The obvious lesson is that you do not need to play 2 minutes of most power plays, that not every shift needs to have Grade A scoring chances when the moment calls for composure, and that offense for offense sake is not how you win Championships.

You know, the same learning curve that most young players go thru after they establish themselves as elite talents before realizing that there is a reason every successful person in every endeavor will tell you that "less is more". The same thing Zegras and Jack Hughes will need to learn before they can reach the next level.

McDavid hasn't passed thru that stage yet because his raw talent exceeds that of every other active player AND he has the weight of his talent creating a hype machine pushing him full stop towards individual glory over team rewards.

He has to demand more restraint of himself and his coaching staff to step back from offensive domination and into the disciplined team game missing in Edmonton. If he can do that, they will get their Cups.
 
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SmytheKing said:
Of course numbers don't tell the whole story. But when one guy has dominated the playoffs, and no one else does...that does tell a story.

Also, Williams had 25 points that year and the leader had 26. Let's not pretend he would have won if he had 13 points. That's more or less what you're arguing would have happened.

EDIT: Quick add too. Vasilevsky was the last goalie to win a Conn Smythe and that was just a couple of years ago. He also had 5 shutouts, a 1.9 GAA and a Sv% of .937. Bob just didn't have the numbers. He was the only reason they won Game 1 for sure, and made some nice saves last night, but he wasn't the MVP of the playoffs. There's just no argument for him. Florida won as a team and they deserved it, but it was a different guy every night.
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Initial reaction, no f***ing way McDavid should have won the Conn Smythe....

Afterwards, I don't see anyone else who should either.....so there is that.
 
There just weren't any undeniable guys on Florida for the Smythe. Quick's 2014 run gets crapped on a bit, probably because of how insane 2012 was, but his numbers from '14 are very similar to Bobrovsky's and nobody was clamoring for Quick to win in '14.

Barkov finished a -1 for the Finals which isn't too shabby if he's matched up against McDavid the entire time. 21 minutes a night in the playoffs for a team known for its defense. Back to Quick's 2014, he faced 30 shots a game on average while Bob faced 24. If you are the best defensive forward on a team that allows 24 shots a game and you lead the team in scoring, you have a pretty good case.

It isn't sexy though. Either is Bob.

Just as an FYI, Quick faced an average of 27 shots in 2012. Just a mind blowing performance.
 
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