Around the league part 2

[johnjm22]

1. Writing this off as "saying the wrong things" contributes to the problem. He went after Aliu's livelihood and did it from a position of influence and power. That power dynamic is what adds to the grossness of his conduct.

Peters seems like a jerk, and if the stuff about going after Aliu's career is true, it makes him look even worse, but I don't think it's the reason he had to step down. I'm pretty sure "saying the wrong thing" is what cost him his job. And I think that was at least partially the point Herby was making; you can do plenty of other gross stuff and it probably won't cost you your job.

 

[seamore]

the united states government has stoked racial divisiveness for ever so there's that. an effective control technique and a time wasting mechanism to avoid producing anything productive.

in what way?

 

[King'sPawn]

Peters seems like a jerk, and if the stuff about going after Aliu's career is true, it makes him look even worse, but I don't think it's the reason he had to step down. I'm pretty sure "saying the wrong thing" is what cost him his job. And I think that was at least partially the point Herby was making; you can do plenty of other gross stuff and it probably won't cost you your job.

Saying the wrong thing minimizes the problem though. If Aliu heard a janitor mumble it, yes, that janitor would lose his job for saying the wrong thing.

But with Peters using it at Aliu, from a position of authority, then continuing to sabotage his career as long as he could, that is much more severe and unhinged. It's that abuse of a power dynamic with the additional context of his conduct that he possibly shouldn't be on the giving end on future power dynamics.

If Peters "just" said the wrong thing, he'd likely get reprimanded, asked to go through diversity training, told to offer an apology, and then it would have been resolved internally and everyone could have moved on.

 

[bland]

Don't care really what side everyone is on, but replacing the ice girls only in Los Angeles (not OC), with guys is pretty lame.

Funny, was just talking about this the other day. The recent evolution away from the hyper-sexualized saturation of advertising and entertainment has essentially ruined an entire cottage industry for large breasted party girls.

Not that I mind either way or lamenting because that was never my particular cup of tea, but it wasn't all that long ago that the magazine stand at the grocery store was littered in boobs, now there is no cleavage in sight. Seems like as access to higher quality porn became normalized and immediate that we have lost interest in things just being "naughty", and any attempt to even slightly refer to objectification is socially taboo while its perfectly okay to rail whatever step-mon/daughter in private.

Strange times we live in. But ice girls? Meh, no big deal.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I would say the point of the league is to win the cup every year.
Winning the cup is all nice and dandy but the team is nowhere close to compete for the cup but is right at the cap ceiling and has no option to act or react to the season.

This is why people talk about Kopitar or the other people who actively prevent the Team from winning the cup

The point of the league is to make money. None of the players are playing for free, just to win the Cup, the last time I checked. The one thing they would've give up is that guaranteed money, for any sort of greater good, so pump the brakes on that.

For fans, the only party involved in the whole production that doesn't get paid, yeah, the only thing that matters is the Cup. However, as you put it, it's all nice and dandy. It's fleeting. We get nothing. We don't truly share in the glory of winning, and we damn sure don't get paid to show up at the games. All we have is the feeling that "our" team has a chance. If 15-20% of the league, max, has a real chance of winning other than a crazy run for a few months, then a lot of teams just want to play at least a few home playoff games. Nobody in the business actually wants to rebuild.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Vilardi arrives in Winnipeg

"Sure, it will be weird for the first few games but that's part of coming in (to Winnipeg) early to get comfy as fast as I can," said Vilardi.

"I already feel I have a good routine; I think that's very important. So yeah, it will be weird at the start, but it is what it is."

Not only will it be weird for Vilardi, but he also said he is a little nervous as well starting over with a different organization following a career best season with the Kings. He registered 41 points (23G, 18A) in 63 games in 2022-23.

"It will be nerve wracking; I was in LA for a while and was very comfortable. Knew all the guys and it helps with on ice stuff too," said Vilardi.

"I think you establish on ice relationships off the ice and that comes onto the ice as well with your teammates, but I will adapt."

 

[Kurrilino]

I was speaking more about opportunity cost.



Most the league is up against the cap. The impact of Covid in having a flat cap to contracts that were signed before the pandemic as if the cap would continue to rise cannot be ignored.

This is why the cap needs to be static as is.
The whole point is to fit only so many great player into one team.
Giving more of them contracts under the assumtion that the cap will rise, is somehow defeating the point of the cap

The point of the league is to make money. None of the players are playing for free, just to win the Cup, the last time I checked. The one thing they would've give up is that guaranteed money, for any sort of greater good, so pump the brakes on that.

For fans, the only party involved in the whole production that doesn't get paid, yeah, the only thing that matters is the Cup. However, as you put it, it's all nice and dandy. It's fleeting. We get nothing. We don't truly share in the glory of winning, and we damn sure don't get paid to show up at the games. All we have is the feeling that "our" team has a chance. If 15-20% of the league, max, has a real chance of winning other than a crazy run for a few months, then a lot of teams just want to play at least a few home playoff games. Nobody in the business actually wants to rebuild.

I remember Hull and Robitaille taking huge paycuts to get a chance to play for the Red Wings which was an almost guaranteed cup win at that time.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Pre-season is right around the corner kids!

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Vilardi arrives in Winnipeg

"Sure, it will be weird for the first few games but that's part of coming in (to Winnipeg) early to get comfy as fast as I can," said Vilardi.

"I already feel I have a good routine; I think that's very important. So yeah, it will be weird at the start, but it is what it is."

Not only will it be weird for Vilardi, but he also said he is a little nervous as well starting over with a different organization following a career best season with the Kings. He registered 41 points (23G, 18A) in 63 games in 2022-23.

"It will be nerve wracking; I was in LA for a while and was very comfortable. Knew all the guys and it helps with on ice stuff too," said Vilardi.

"I think you establish on ice relationships off the ice and that comes onto the ice as well with your teammates, but I will adapt."

If Vilardi goes nuclear and PLD fizzles out, it will be the defining failure of Blake’s career as an executive.

Similar vibes to Richards for Schenn and Simmonds. That one worked out for both teams but no Cups for LA and Lombardi never lives it down.

 

[Fishhead]

If Vilardi goes nuclear and PLD fizzles out, it will be the defining failure of Blake’s career as an executive.

Similar vibes to Richards for Schenn and Simmonds. That one worked out for both teams but no Cups for LA and Lombardi never lives it down.

I wouldn't say that trade worked out for Philadelphia. They got a decent return, yes, but they missed the playoffs in 7 of the 12 seasons since the trade and haven't made it past the 2nd round. They wasted the return by not addressing other areas. They probably would have been better off keeping Richards and Carter, who led them to the final two years earlier. That locker room crap sure worked out for us.

Personally, I don't see PLD fizzling out. He's too good. I like Vilardi a lot more than most, but the odds of him having a subpar season are much higher than PLD having one. Definitely a defining move, though. It has to work out for Blake to appear to have any semblance of success.

We all have our gripes with Blake, our coaches, and management in general. I think they get passes too often but I'm glad there is at least some accountability. I'd go nuts if it was like Wilson in SJ or Poile in Nashville, where it was just the same old stuff despite not getting a cup.

 

[Herby]

If Vilardi goes nuclear and PLD fizzles out, it will be the defining failure of Blake’s career as an executive.

Similar vibes to Richards for Schenn and Simmonds. That one worked out for both teams but no Cups for LA and Lombardi never lives it down.

The huge difference between the trades is there is only a one year age difference between PLD and Vilardi (a fact that crazily gets overlooked around these parts), where with Schenn and Simmonds it was 6 years and 4 years. It is also very unlikely that PLD fizzles out, his floor is likely being what he's been in the NHL for 6 seasons now.



It's still crazy that these brothers all went as high as they did over 4 drafts. And pretty scary to think what types of players Jack and Quinn would be had they been 6'2 like Luke. And I really wish Jack had been able to accelerate through his final year of HS to get cleared and play with Quinn in his draft year. He tried but couldn't make it work.

 

[Herby]

I wouldn't say that trade worked out for Philadelphia.

Richards was completely done after 2 seasons in LA, had the Flyers not traded him it would have been them stuck with what was arguably the worst contract in the league, and wouldn't have had two pretty good players for a long time.

The trade was a massive success from the Flyers perspective as they got maximum value for what was a soon to be collapsing asset. It was also a win for the Kings, who weren't winning a SC with what they had at C going into 2011-2012.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I wouldn't say that trade worked out for Philadelphia. They got a decent return, yes, but they missed the playoffs in 7 of the 12 seasons since the trade and haven't made it past the 2nd round. They wasted the return by not addressing other areas. They probably would have been better off keeping Richards and Carter, who led them to the final two years earlier. That locker room crap sure worked out for us.

Personally, I don't see PLD fizzling out. He's too good. I like Vilardi a lot more than most, but the odds of him having a subpar season are much higher than PLD having one. Definitely a defining move, though. It has to work out for Blake to appear to have any semblance of success.

We all have our gripes with Blake, our coaches, and management in general. I think they get passes too often but I'm glad there is at least some accountability. I'd go nuts if it was like Wilson in SJ or Poile in Nashville, where it was just the same old stuff despite not getting a cup.

My issue is that if Vilardi emerges and has a great year and Kupari breaks out, then the deal isn't great. In addition the Jets get two seasons of AI and a 2nd round pick. Kupari is the dark horse in the deal. It's just two seasons until UFA for a 30 year old Iafallo and he really has no upside - not dogging the guy, he's a 40-50 point player.

I was supportive of the move because even though Vilardi and Kupari are big - they don't play the type of game PLD plays; he's mean and cocky. He basically bullied the Leafs when the Jackets beat them in the playoffs. Vilardi and Kupari do not have that edge.

‘Built for the playoffs:’ Jets hoping Pierre-Luc Dubois will have major impact in series with Golden Knights

"This is the type of game that (Pierre-Luc Dubois) is geared and bred for. A big body that can play a quick game, can play a heavy game."

winnipegsun.com

 

[johnjm22]

The Richards trade demonstrates that there can be a very thin line between success and failure.

He's on the books until 2032.

Kings don't win the cup and it goes down as one of the worst trades in franchise history and Lombardi is probably considered a failure. A thin line indeed.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Kings had Kopitar, Richards and Stoll down the middle when they won both cups.

Danault is better than Stoll and Kopitar is not what he was at 23-26. PLD is the key factor here.

 

[Herby]

The Kings had Kopitar, Richards and Stoll down the middle when they won both cups.

Danault is better than Stoll and Kopitar is not what he was at 23-26. PLD is the key factor here.

Carter was the 2C in 2014. At that point with Richards you just closed your eyes and hoped the puck wasn't going to end up in back of the Kings goal. People thought watching Durzi this past season was an adventure, not sure there was anything quite like 2014 Richards. Maybe Ran_y Jones.

 

[Fishhead]

Richards was completely done after 2 seasons in LA, had the Flyers not traded him it would have been them stuck with what was arguably the worst contract in the league, and wouldn't have had two pretty good players for a long time.

The trade was a massive success from the Flyers perspective as they got maximum value for what was a soon to be collapsing asset. It was also a win for the Kings, who weren't winning a SC with what they had at C going into 2011-2012.

Of course Richards fell apart, but they didn't know he was going to collapse like that - no one did. So it did work out for them from that perspective and they dodged a bullet. Although I'm betting that if Richards fell off the cliff in Philly they simply would have CBO'd him.

But it also turned out that they would have been better off keeping Richards and Carter and trying for a cup for a few more years. It couldn't have turned out worse than what has happened. Now they suck and have a middling at best prospect pool, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. They've been a really poorly managed team for quite a while now, no wonder their fans are so jaded.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings had Kopitar, Richards and Stoll down the middle when they won both cups.

Danault is better than Stoll and Kopitar is not what he was at 23-26. PLD is the key factor here.

The second cup it was Kopitar, Carter, Stoll as our 1, 2, 3 centers.

I think sometimes we forget how good Carter was as our 2nd line center during that run.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Remember how 'easy' it was going to be to replace Stoll as 3C? Good times.

 

[Kudelski37]

The huge difference between the trades is there is only a one year age difference between PLD and Vilardi (a fact that crazily gets overlooked around these parts), where with Schenn and Simmonds it was 6 years and 4 years. It is also very unlikely that PLD fizzles out, his floor is likely being what he's been in the NHL for 6 seasons now.

PLD is only a year older but he has played 3x more games in the NHL. PLD is way further along the learning curve yet he has never scored goals at the rate Vilardi did last season (1.4 goals/ per 60 minutes). PLD is way more dependent on power plays to score his goals. This leads me to believe Vilardi will be the much better scorer going forward. Since it is a cap league, Vilardi's cheap contract should be worth much more than PLD. This was a horrible trade for LA.

 

[Herby]

PLD is only a year older but he has played 3x more games in the NHL. PLD is way further along the learning curve yet he has never scored goals at the rate Vilardi did last season (1.4 goals/ per 60 minutes). PLD is way more dependent on power plays to score his goals. This leads me to believe Vilardi will be the much better scorer going forward. Since it is a cap league, Vilardi's cheap contract should be worth much more than PLD. This was a horrible trade for LA.

Age still is a more important factor for player development than NHL games. A 21 year old entering his third season would still have more upside than a 23 year old with 65 games.

What if Vilardi returns to his previous level of play?

Do you really expect another 19% shooting percentage this season? If he shoots his previous career average (14.2%) he ends up with 17 goals last year, instead of 23.

Is it usual for a player to play at ES with the teams best offensive player and not draw the other teams best checkers? That was the case in LA last year, it's unlikely to be the case in Winnipeg. If he's playing with Connor, he will be facing top checkers.

As far as it being a horrible trade for the Kings. Are you a believer that the Kings could have won a SC with Phil Danault as the teams #2 center? It's the same situation as in 2012, you had a good #3 center masquerading as a #2 center and a hot shot prospect who wasn't ready to play that role. You can't win a SC with Kopitar and Danault as your 1-2 C duo.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Everyone saw the impact Tkachuk had and also Blake saw how the Oilers and McDavid/Leon/Kane/Nurse and co. bullied the Kings for two straight years.

 

[Herby]

Everyone saw the impact Tkachuk had and also Blake saw how the Oilers and McDavid/Leon/Kane/Nurse and co. bullied the Kings for two straight years.

I am genuinely surprised by the largely negative view on this player by a lot of our fans. I think he is going to be very impactful in LA. Not only is he a proven 60-70 point scorer with maybe some upside for more, he fills a huge hole at 2C and gives the Kings some sandpaper in the top 6. It seems the Kings lack guys with that attribute who can actually score. All the guys the Kings have drafted who are "tough to play against" can't shoot a puck into the ocean, and the ones with some skill are pretty timid.

I think this guy is going to win over people pretty quickly.

 

[tny760]

I am genuinely surprised by the largely negative view on this player by a lot of our fans. I think he is going to be very impactful in LA. Not only is he a proven 60-70 point scorer with maybe some upside for more, he fills a huge hole at 2C and gives the Kings some sandpaper in the top 6. It seems the Kings lack guys with that attribute who can actually score. All the guys the Kings have drafted who are "tough to play against" can't shoot a puck into the ocean, and the ones with some skill are pretty timid.

I think this guy is going to win over people pretty quickly.

i can't speak for everyone but my frustration with him is more due to the acquisition itself since we're still dealing with these gaping holes and question marks around him instead of addressing them. blake went out and put the hellcat in the driveway of the house that's needed repairs for years. i do certainly worry about his commitment and work ethic but realistically that's probably only going to be a problem if this team fails to get over the hump and we go into rebuild territory. he probably will be a very impactful player, i'm just not sure we're the guys who needed to take the risks and commitments to get him.

i definitely hope that edge translates to other players gaining some balls too though, it ain't coming from some tough 4th liner, it needs to come from leadership

 

[Herby]

i can't speak for everyone but my frustration with him is more due to the acquisition itself since we're still dealing with these gaping holes and question marks around him instead of addressing them. blake went out and put the hellcat in the driveway of the house that's needed repairs for years. i do certainly worry about his commitment and work ethic but realistically that's probably only going to be a problem if this team fails to get over the hump and we go into rebuild territory. he probably will be a very impactful player, i'm just not sure we're the guys who needed to take the risks and commitments to get him.

i definitely hope that edge translates to other players gaining some balls too though, it ain't coming from some tough 4th liner, it needs to come from leadership

I understand where you are coming from, I was one of the fans who wanted the Kings to suck in 2022 and 2023 so they could reload the system and actually draft some guys who might project as stars (especially with how strong the 2023 draft is probably going to be). Right now I feel like Clarke is the only young piece who really projects as a potential star caliber player that could win hardware one day.

But once they made the commitment to trying to win quickly again with one more kick at the can with 11 & 8, and with the struggles of Byfield and Turcotte to live up to the draft capital used on them and Vilardi's inability to play C at the NHL level they had to address the center situation for Kopitar's final few years in the league. And I think the added bonus is that PLD at least has a chance to maybe take another step and even become the teams best C as early as this season, and he's young enough where if the Kings do have to rebuild when 11 and 8 retire he can either be the teams temporary 1C until they draft another one, or he can be flipped to a contender if the Kings go scorched Earth in 3 years.

And yes it's in the realm of possibility that Vilardi takes a big step too, but it's also in the realm of possibility that everything went right for Vilardi last year and he regresses back to what he looked like his first couple of years in the league. At 24 years old, I just don't think he was young enough or impactful enough to keep him as winger, when you had a gaping hole at 2C and a much more proven player only a year older than Gabe available.