Around the league part 2

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kopitar is the superior all around player, Bergeron the better defensive player, maybe best of all time.

It's unfortunate for Anze's trophy case but Bergeron deserved that Selke more often than not, there's just unfortunately not a trophy for Anze's two-way dominance over the years, the Selke isn't about doing more with less...you can argue if Anze was in Boston TO or MTL that he'd be absolutely REVERED though, and he almost certainly would have won MVP to go with Selke in 2018.

I mean I'm sure we could really hammer down on the stats for more 'accurate' #s but especially considering team/linemates

Bergeron top 25-ish offensive player, top 1-3 defensive player
Kopitar top 10-15ish offensive player, top 3-5 defensive player

Both incredible careers and future HOFers, Kopitar's biggest problem was being in a pacific time zone market and not canadian

 

[Steve Zissou]

Congrats to Bergy on a hall of fame career. Class guy.

 

[Sol]

I never liked Bergeron too much because of how often they’d use his status to denigrate Kopitar.

Even now on the thread in the main boards about Bergeron being the most respected player of his generation has devolved into Kopitar not being as good as Bergeron as a player.

Bergeron may have been better defensively but Kopitar is definitely the superior player all around.

 

[YP44]

I never liked Bergeron too much because of how often they’d use his status to denigrate Kopitar.

Even now on the thread in the main boards about Bergeron being the most respected player of his generation has devolved into Kopitar not being as good as Bergeron as a player.

Bergeron may have been better defensively but Kopitar is definitely the superior player all around.

i get that, i think that is why i am biased to hate Karlsson.

Bergeron is the Nick Lidstrom when it comes to Selke. He has been so dominate and his advance stats back it.

The fact that Kopitar is compared to him shows how good he is, the fact Bergeron is compared to Kopitar does as well. Both are elite, both are winners, and both are hall of famers.

 

[King'sPawn]

There needs to be better rules about LTIR. He was cleared to play in the playoffs, now he's suddenly on LTIR again two and a half months before season start?

 

[tny760]

kinda the same ole shit right? yeah he's probably legitimately injured, but he was also probably going to play through it til the cap situation dictated that it's better for the team to LTIR him

i don't feel as bad since he's unlikely to play again, i'll save the outrage for the undertaker entrance for game 1

 

[YP44]

speaking of cap circumvention.
Did anyone see Hossa was having a retirement game. Makes me wonder what the jerseys were made out of. Also should that game not have happened like a decade ago

 

[johnjm22]

With the Mike Buckley connection, I wonder if Murray could end up being a King late this season.

Murray's LTIR status lets you avoid most of his cap hit. You activate him with a month to go in the season.

Not sure if he can still play decent hockey though. He hasn't been good statistically since 18/19 under Buckley.

 

[YP44]

With the Mike Buckley connection, I wonder if Murray could end up being a King late this season.

Murray's LTIR status lets you avoid most of his cap hit. You activate him with a month to go in the season.

Not sure if he can still play decent hockey though. He hasn't been good statistically since 18/19 under Buckley.

don't like our goaltending, but don't see murray as the answer either

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

At first I couldn't believe I was arguing with someone whether Joe Thornton is a choker or not

But it turns out the stats are far worse than even I could imagine

I'm not sure I've seen a bigger consistent mental collapse deep in the playoffs in any sport

 

[bland]

At first I couldn't believe I was arguing with someone whether Joe Thornton is a choker or not

But it turns out the stats are far worse than even I could imagine

I'm not sure I've seen a bigger consistent mental collapse deep in the playoffs in any sport

There are some styles of play that also get easier to defend over the course of a series. I have always resisted purely offensive skilled players because their importance wanes as the games get tighter. You need them of course, but their value shifts from leading to supporting roles in situations where the need for mental strength and perseverance grow.

 

[Kurrilino]

I hear you, my issue is the east coast bias is so strong and led to Bergeron > Kopitar becoming conventional wisdom that is repeated and becomes fact over time.

This is no bias at all.
Bergeron has similar offensive number by playing 15 games less each season than Kopitar, while having a superior defensive game
Also Bergeron never made more than $8 mill while Kopitar made $10mill

This is why Bergeron is rightfully being considered the best

 

[psych3man]

No bias???
Are you saying a Slovenian elite 2-way forward playing on the west coast is covered by the hockey press exactly the same as a Canadian elite 2-way forward playing on the east coast?

 

[YP44]

This is no bias at all.
Bergeron has similar offensive number by playing 15 games less each season than Kopitar, while having a superior defensive game
Also Bergeron never made more than $8 mill while Kopitar made $10mill

This is why Bergeron is rightfully being considered the best

I agree with your first couple of points. The amount they have made does not have impact in "who is the better player" debate for me. Maybe "who has the better agent" or "who can receive more endorsement $$"

No bias???
Are you saying a Slovenian elite 2-way forward playing on the west coast is covered by the hockey press exactly the same as a Canadian elite 2-way forward playing on the east coast?

I don't think he is, what I think he is saying is the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Kurrilino]

No bias???
Are you saying a Slovenian elite 2-way forward playing on the west coast is covered by the hockey press exactly the same as a Canadian elite 2-way forward playing on the east coast?

This is not what i am saying, press coverage has nothing to do with that.

Just compare their numbers and you will see a slight edge by Bergeron paired with 2 mill less salary.
Also where the elite is coming from is far beyond me.
Kopitar has horrible numbers for a #1 center

 

[kingsholygrail]

This is not what i am saying, press coverage has nothing to do with that.

Just compare their numbers and you will see a slight edge by Bergeron paired with 2 mill less salary.
Also where the elite is coming from is far beyond me.
Kopitar has horrible numbers for a #1 center

What numbers are these?

 

[Kurrilino]

What numbers are these?

60+ point center blocking $10mill, being absolutely humiliated in playoff

 

[kingsholygrail]

60+ point center blocking $10mill, being absolutely humiliated in playoff

74pts, +20 16.6 S% 55.9 FO% 5th in Selke votes. Got beat by the best player in the NHL? How embarrassing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bergeron had less than 60 regular season points and had 1 goal and -6 this year's playoffs

So i mean strictly speaking if the exercise is just raw to compare numbers if Kopitar sucks Bergeron is an AHLer

 

[Kurrilino]

74pts, +20 16.6 S% 55.9 FO% 5th in Selke votes. Got beat by the best player in the NHL? How embarrassing.

This is the holy grail of cherry picking, no pun intended.
But hey, why not...

21-22
Kopitar 67 pts, -6, $10 mill
Bergeron 65 pts, +26, $4.375 mill
Do we see any difference here?

22-23 Base salary
McDavid $1mill
Kopitar $8 mill

 

[tny760]

This is the holy grail of cherry picking

22-23 Base salary
McDavid $1mill
Kopitar $8 mill

 

[kingsholygrail]

This is the holy grail of cherry picking, no pun intended.
But hey, why not...

21-22
Kopitar 67 pts, -6, $10 mill
Bergeron 65 pts, +26, $4.375 mill
Do we see any difference here?

22-23 Base salary
McDavid $1mill
Kopitar $8 mill

Oh, I'm sorry. You're stuck in 21-22. I thought I was being fair by pointing out his most recent play a year older.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I sometimes wonder if certain posters suffer from brain damage.

 

[Maynard]

I sometimes wonder if certain posters suffer from brain damage.

There are quite a few of us and I want to thank all of you for welcoming us here.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Sitting in Oppenheimer yesterday and noticing... f***ing Sean Avery up on the big screen.

Apparently he was also in Tenet.

Never would have guessed that he would be in a speaking role in multiple Christopher Nolan films.