GDT: Around the League - Off Season Edition - let the good times roll.

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner is no longer overpaid after Suzuki and Tkachuk deals. We have a legit 90-100 point player lol.

Marner is still overpaid. There are also newer overpaid contracts, maybe even worse. But, in all three cases, there are rationalizations as to why they are acceptable, maybe.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

So are Leaf fans going to take a break bitching about the Marner contract after taking in that Tkatchuk one? Definitely not.

 

[Stephen]

Marner is no longer overpaid after Suzuki and Tkachuk deals. We have a legit 90-100 point player lol.

It's great seeing all that free cap space get chewed up over time. Balances out the competitive advantage and puts more quality players in the discount bin.

Bogosian out 4-6 weeks. Seems like he's back to being his injury prone self. We were really lucky to have a fairly healthy season from him. Tough to see being the good soldier that he is.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Since points is the only thing that matters you should take a look at Nurse’s contract instead. 9,25M.

Mo and Nurse score just as much points. Pulock is playing in a defensive system and that is hurting his pay check.

Points aren't the only thing that matters.

Pulock is partnered with the best defensive defenceman in the league, playing for one of the best coaches in the league, on a legitimate contender (second best team in the playoffs the last two years). A hometown discount isn't unreasonable.

Plus, Lamoriello is a tough negotiator.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Points aren't the only thing that matters.

Pulock is partnered with the best defensive defenceman in the league, playing for one of the best coaches in the league, on a legitimate contender (second best team in the playoffs the last two years). A hometown discount isn't unreasonable.

Plus, Lamoriello is a tough negotiator.

Unless it is Patrick Marleau.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Plus, Lamoriello is a tough negotiator.

 

[1specter]

Holy shit that is horrible

 

[ACC1224]

Doesn't seem that bad to me. I think over the course of the deal he'll earn that money. Good player.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's got the best defence tandem in the league locked up for the next eight years, for under 12M combined.

I would say that's pretty good.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nelson, Eberle (when he was there), Pageau are all fair contracts

Pelech and Pulock are great contracts (if the Pulock deal is true and its 6-6.25). Varlamov is a steal at 5M being part of the best goaltending tandem in the league

He's had a few bad deals including Marleau's 3rd year, Komarov for the isles but overall he's been good. He's moved kept their core together. People here blame Lou for the Marleau trade. Lou had Ladd and moved him, so he had a similar cap situation yet people here clown him despite the isles being further ahead of the leafs in contending for the cup these past 3 years

Isles got Cizikas back at a reduced cap hit in exchange for 2 years more term than ideal. He got their guys to take bridge deals as needed in Barzal, Sorokin, Beauvillier.

Lou has been incredible for the isles at managing the cap, building a competitive team (probably top 3 in the league the past 2 seasons), and getting rid of the loser culture that haunted the isles for years

Lou is a top GM in the league despite being old as shit. He's the only elite GM left from the old guard (Holland, Poile, Wilson)

 

[Brobust]

Marner is still overpaid. There are also newer overpaid contracts, maybe even worse. But, in all three cases, there are rationalizations as to why they are acceptable, maybe.

How many forwards out there who score 90+, play matchup minutes and play all situations?

The list is basically Barkov and Marner. You can probably add a few more elite names if you ease the PK minute restriction but Marner is on a very short list of elite players.

Mentioning him in the same breath as a Suzuki or a Tkachuk is actually kind of an insult to him.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Doesn't seem that bad to me. I think over the course of the deal he'll earn that money. Good player.

Paid for potential … let’s see if that is worth it in end.. I think it will be

 

[Fogelhund]

How many forwards out there who score 90+, play matchup minutes and play all situations?

The list is basically Barkov and Marner. You can probably add a few more elite names if you ease the PK minute restriction but Marner is on a very short list of elite players.

Mentioning him in the same breath as a Suzuki or a Tkachuk is actually kind of an insult to him.

I understand where you are coming from, and where we differ.

Marner wasn't a PK guy, matchup at time of signing. He's grown into a much better, more rounded player since his signing. Contracts are typically evaluated based upon what the player achieved to the time of their signing. Marner was a $9.5 mil player, at the time of his signing. He got $11 mil. What's happened since, whether it's his play, or what other players have since signed for, doesn't change that.

We can play the... what the player turned into, after signing all day, just look at MacKinnon or Pastrnak as examples... but both were paid appropriately, for what they had achieved at the time. They've both grown into players who currently play well above their contracts.

There is no reason to take exception to comparison of contract overpayments, no matter the tier of the player. It isn't a comparison of the player themselves, but of their variance from expected contracts.

A player worth $1 mil, who gets 15% more than they should, is just as overpaid as a player who deserves $9.5 and gets 15% more than they should.... It's not a comparison of the player, just their contracts.

 

[Menzinger]

Paid for potential … let’s see if that is worth it in end.. I think it will be

It's probably a fair gamble, but he WILL ultimately have to cross the threshold into being a 70+ point player for that to justify.

Imo I still think it's a pretty hefty overpay given his relatively basic point production so far. That said, my position on star contracts is the same for other teams as it is for the Leafs - they're the types of players you should be willing if need be to pay more for. Not every contract is going to be perfect.

On the plus side the contracts the last few days certainly paint the Leafs ones in a pretty favorable light. Nylander looks like he's about to have a monster of a season and he still comes.in under 7 mil.

 

[mydnyte]

Unless it is Patrick Marleau.

...and the Zaitsev deal was a steal too

 

[Dekes For Days]

He's got the best defence tandem in the league locked up for the next eight years, for under 12M combined.

Best defense tandem in the league? That's quite the claim. And while those contracts aren't bad, they were coming off 14 and 17 point seasons, so right or not, their earning potential was limited. Lou has signed a lot more than just those two.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner wasn't a PK guy, matchup at time of signing.

Marner was on the PK in 2018-2019, before signing.

Marner was a $9.5 mil player, at the time of his signing.

He wasn't though.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Best defense tandem in the league? That's quite the claim. And while those contracts aren't bad, they were coming off 14 and 17 point seasons, so right or not, their earning potential was limited. Lou has signed a lot more than just those two.

It's top 5, top 10 according to basically everybody. I don't think there's a clear-cut #1 pairing out there.

 

[IPS]

Best defense tandem in the league? That's quite the claim. And while those contracts aren't bad, they were coming off 14 and 17 point seasons, so right or not, their earning potential was limited. Lou has signed a lot more than just those two.

Dekes wtf you doing using "raw points" to evaluate players???

 

[IPS]

I would trade Marner in an instant to have a Pelech-Pulock pairing for $12M.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's top 5, top 10 according to basically everybody. I don't think there's a clear-cut #1 pairing out there.

So who are the others in the top-10, and how much do those pairings make?

Dekes wtf you doing using "raw points" to evaluate players???

I'm not using raw points to evaluate players. I'm pointing out that their earning potential was limited by their production. Those aren't the contracts that are questionable though.

 

[IPS]

I'm not using raw points to evaluate players. I'm pointing out that their earning potential was limited by their production.

You're clearly not using the same criteria that you use for assessing Leafs players

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

So who are the others in the top-10, and how much do those pairings make?

I'm not using raw points to evaluate players. I'm pointing out that their earning potential was limited by their production. These two aren't really the contracts that are questionable anyway.

Cale Makar/Devon Toews is 13 and change
Martinez/Pietrangelo is 13 and change
Lindgren and Fox make nothing but they'll be at 12 or 13 next year

That's all I can think of off the top of my head

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're clearly not using the same criteria that you use for assessing Leafs players

I use the same criteria for everybody, but I'm not assessing players. I'm pointing out the limited earning potential of two players somebody else brought up to make a broad, highly questionable claim about a GM's negotiating abilities.