Tidbits: Around the League: NHL News - 2023-24

[TaLoN]

I agree it's not apples to apples comparison. But if Ovi had to play in a time where it was a slower pace and goalies with smaller pads, I think he still would have been a higher goal producer IMO.

Put Gretzky in the mid-2000s to now and he would could have been hurt a lot more. And with the decrease in enforcers, players have to now defend for themselves a lot more than they did pre-2000.

Bottom line, I hope he finds another gear and can come close or even break it. I'm not an Ovi fan any more than I am any other player in the league, but it's nice to see records that thought they would never be touched possibly be reached.

I disagree completely on your Gretzky injury take... the game was a lot more violent with guys like Scott Stevens laying people out than it is today. Just ask Paul Kariya.

 

[HobeyBroten]

I disagree completely on your Gretzky injury take... the game was a lot more violent with guys like Scott Stevens laying people out than it is today. Just ask Paul Kariya.

So the league is more soft now than it was back then?

 

[Wabit]

So the league is more soft now than it was back then?

For sure. The NHL has been going more and more towards a no contact league for years. Players don't even know to take hits anymore.

No touch icing rule. The 2 line pass rule is gone. Slashing and interference rule changes. "Clean" big hits now start fights. A lot of the "dirty" big hits now were "clean" hits back then. Line brawls weren't uncommon.

Look at Q. Hughes getting blown up the other night. It was a clean hit and the guy got 5 in the box just because it looked bad. That is a common hit 20 years ago and the story line would have been the kid learned a lesson about being aware of his surroundings.

 

[57special]

Game is less physical and dirty than it used to be, and the protective equipment is much better. In theory, it should be way less dangerous and violent. However, it is also much faster than it used to be. Players buzz around for 30 second shifts at full speed(unless your name is Suter), all teams employ skating coaches, and off season training is a thing. players are bigger and/or stronger than ever.

Extra speed and bulk makes for more violent collisions when they do happen.

I guess what i am saying is that things cancel themselves out. There are probably less cuts, broken noses and cheekbones nowadays, but more joint/ligament injuries. I would be interested in seeing a comparison of time lost due to injuries now vs. other eras of hockey.

 

[MuckOG]

Game is less physical and dirty than it used to be, and the protective equipment is much better. In theory, it should be way less dangerous and violent. However, it is also much faster than it used to be. Players buzz around for 30 second shifts at full speed(unless your name is Suter), all teams employ skating coaches, and off season training is a thing. players are bigger and/or stronger than ever.

Extra speed and bulk makes for more violent collisions when they do happen.

I guess what i am saying is that things cancel themselves out. There are probably less cuts, broken noses and cheekbones nowadays, but more joint/ligament injuries. I would be interested in seeing a comparison of time lost due to injuries now vs. other eras of hockey.

I agree the equipment (especially helmets) is better is many respects than it was. But, unlike years ago, much of the equipment today is cased in hard plastic, which can result in more injuries to the players they are hitting. When I was a young hockey player, the shoulder pads and elbow pads I wore were soft, now they are like suits of armor.

We should also talk about sticks, with the amount of flex these composite sticks bring, the puck is coming off them much faster and harder than the old wooden sticks, making it much more dangerous for shot blockers.

 

[57special]

I agree the equipment (especially helmets) is better is many respects than it was. But, unlike years ago, much of the equipment today is cased in hard plastic, which can result in more injuries to the players they are hitting. When I was a young hockey player, the shoulder pads and elbow pads I wore were soft, now they are like suits of armor.

We should also talk about sticks, with the amount of flex these composite sticks bring, the puck is coming off them much faster and harder than the old wooden sticks, making it much more dangerous for shot blockers.

But they have padding under the plastic, no?

I am probably older than just about anyone here, but the equipment now is WAY more protective than it used to be. Blocking shots used to really take courage, as it was really easy to get broken bones doing so, especially in the feet/ankle area.

The only peeve i have about the equipment now is the gloves. They are really great, except i find that most of them are too short, leaving the wrists exposed to pucks and slashes when you flex a certain way. I want those suckers going halfway up my forearm.

 

[MuckOG]

But they have padding under the plastic, no?

I am probably older than just about anyone here, but the equipment now is WAY more protective than it used to be. Blocking shots used to really take courage, as it was really easy to get broken bones doing so, especially in the feet/ankle area.

The only peeve i have about the equipment now is the gloves. They are really great, except i find that most of them are too short, leaving the wrists exposed to pucks and slashes when you flex a certain way. I want those suckers going halfway up my forearm.

Yes, of course, and it is very protective for the person wearing the equipment. But an elbow to the face now can cause a lot more injuries to the player receiving the elbow because they are getting hit with hard plastic instead of the softer elbow pads of the past.

 

[57special]

Yes, of course, and it is very protective for the person wearing the equipment. But an elbow to the face now can cause a lot more injuries to the player receiving the elbow because they are getting hit with hard plastic instead of the softer elbow pads of the past.

Oh, I get what you mean.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

But they have padding under the plastic, no?

I am probably older than just about anyone here, but the equipment now is WAY more protective than it used to be. Blocking shots used to really take courage, as it was really easy to get broken bones doing so, especially in the feet/ankle area.

The only peeve i have about the equipment now is the gloves. They are really great, except i find that most of them are too short, leaving the wrists exposed to pucks and slashes when you flex a certain way. I want those suckers going halfway up my forearm.

Long gloves really mess with your stickhandling, much better to extend the elbow pads as much as possible, but yeah, the wrists are one of the least padded areas currently, I know Hartman wears a special sleeve on at least one of his arms to deal with that issue from a previous injury.

 

[TaLoN]

So the league is more soft now than it was back then?

Much more so. Head hunting used to be common and legal. That's where the term "Keep your head up" comes from. If you weren't watching for the head hunters, you'd find yourself waking up after getting taken out... you'd shake your head, walk it off a bit, then be right back on the ice a few minutes later.

The afore-mentioned Paul Kariya came "off the floor, on the board!" in the cup finals. One of the most famous hockey calls of all time. Was literally knocked out by an open ice hit. Steven's shoulder square to the face. Was out on the ice for quite some time. Had to be helped up and to the locker room by his teammates. The hit was considered completely legal. He came back in the next period and scored a goal.... thus off the floor, on the board.

Paul Kariya doesn't even remember much of that game to this day he was concussed so bad. He was never the same after the hit... yet prior to the hit, he was clearly considered generational and was well on his way to backing it up.

 

[57special]

To this day i don't have a problem with that check.... maybe a tad late. I have seen way worse go uncalled. It's the ones from behind into the boards, or the high sticks. The one Bfuglyien did to PMB years ago was disgusting, and the refs just let it go.

As long as you kept your stick and elbows down, open ice hits were part of hockey back then. Theoretically they are now, too, but they are so strict that it's not worth doing them, IMO. Same with hip checks. Many of the Bobby Baun/Curt Giles hip checks would be called going after the knees nowadays.

 

[AKL]

To this day i don't have a problem with that check.... maybe a tad late. I have seen way worse go uncalled. It's the ones from behind into the boards, or the high sticks. The one Bfuglyien did to PMB years ago was disgusting, and the refs just let it go.

As long as you kept your stick and elbows down, open ice hits were part of hockey back then. Theoretically they are now, too, but they are so strict that it's not worth doing them, IMO. Same with hip checks. Many of the Bobby Baun/Curt Giles hip checks would be called going after the knees nowadays.

Yeah I can't find a way that that hit would violate current rules other than being maybe slightly late, but Stevens was already on the collision course with Kariya when Kariya dumped the puck off. Shoulder tucked, feet never left the ice, square through center mass. Kariya got caught puck watching.

 

[TaLoN]

Yeah I can't find a way that that hit would violate current rules other than being maybe slightly late, but Stevens was already on the collision course with Kariya when Kariya dumped the puck off. Shoulder tucked, feet never left the ice, square through center mass. Kariya got caught puck watching.

Primary contact to the head makes it illegal today.
At the time, I was in favor of that being a legal hit, but concussions weren't known to be as severe as they are now known to be. I loved the hit when watching it live.

 

[AKL]

Primary contact to the head makes it illegal today.
At the time, I was in favor of that being a legal hit, but concussions weren't known to be as severe as they are now known to be. I loved the hit when watching it live.

No it doesn't. Targeting the head makes it illegal today, but that's not what he was doing. There have been plenty of hits with head contact that weren't deemed illegally because the hit was square through center mass, just like this one was.

 

[TaLoN]

No it doesn't. Targeting the head makes it illegal today, but that's not what he was doing. There have been plenty of hits with head contact that weren't deemed illegally because the hit was square through center mass, just like this one was.

Both targeted and primary point of contact.

48.1 Illegal Check To The Head A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted.

There's also this...

However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was unavoidable, can be considered.

I think I've heard NHL officials asked about this in today's rules and they've said that it would be penalized by today's standard, I could be wrong though. Kariya didn't change his path suddenly, Stevens skated through him in the opposite direction, with his shoulder lining up to his head the entire way.

 

[AKL]

Both targeted and primary point of contact.

48.1 Illegal Check To The Head A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted.

"where the head is targeted AND the principal point of contact"

The head wasn't targeted, Kariya was eligible to be hit (you can make the case that it was slightly late, but not egregiously so), and there's no way to make this hit any cleaner without catching his head, that's what this part

There's also this...

However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was unavoidable, can be considered.

is for.

The bulk of the contact (call it primary or principal to fit established phrases in the rule) was through center mass, but Kariya was skating in a manner where the head contact was unavoidable outside of just not making the hit, and we already have precedent that says players who make the hit aren't responsible for the players getting hit putting themselves in positions where head contact on an otherwise legal check is unavoidbale.

 

[TaLoN]

"where the head is targeted AND the principal point of contact"

The head wasn't targeted, Kariya was eligible to be hit (you can make the case that it was slightly late, but not egregiously so), and there's no way to make this hit any cleaner without catching his head, that's what this part



is for.

The bulk of the contact (call it primary or principal to fit established phrases in the rule) was through center mass, but Kariya was skating in a manner where the head contact was unavoidable outside of just not making the hit, and we already have precedent that says players who make the hit aren't responsible for the players getting hit putting themselves in positions where head contact on an otherwise legal check is unavoidbale.

I think the head was targeted, that's where you and I disagree and see this differently.

 

[AKL]

I think the head was targeted, that's where you and I disagree and see this differently.

But how do you see the head as being targeted? Head contact is not the same as targeting the head. Stevens didn't alter the trajectory of any part of his body to make sure he caught the head, he didn't leave his feet to get a higher hit, the elbow stayed tucked the entire time. I don't see how you can make the case that Stevens targeted the head. I do see how you can make the case that Kariya put himself in a vulnerable position.

And Stevens is 6'2, Kariya is 5'10, but that's not a reason Stevens can't make a hit on an eligible player.

 

[TaLoN]

But how do you see the head as being targeted? Head contact is not the same as targeting the head. Stevens didn't alter the trajectory of any part of his body to make sure he caught the head, he didn't leave his feet to get a higher hit, the elbow stayed tucked the entire time. I don't see how you can make the case that Stevens targeted the head. I do see how you can make the case that Kariya put himself in a vulnerable position.

And Stevens is 6'2, Kariya is 5'10, but that's not a reason Stevens can't make a hit on an eligible player.

Stevens didn't change path, neither did Kariya

 

[TaLoN]

Stevens didn't change path, neither did Kariya

Kariya was just "admiring his pass" hence why at the time people said, he needs to keep his head up.

Players admire their passes every game these days.

 

[AKL]

Stevens didn't change path, neither did Kariya

Stevens didn't need to change path as it was his goal to hit Kariya. Kariya was caught watching the puck which is something they coach out of you when you're 10? But none of that means the head was targeted.

 

[HobeyBroten]

Much more so. Head hunting used to be common and legal. That's where the term "Keep your head up" comes from. If you weren't watching for the head hunters, you'd find yourself waking up after getting taken out... you'd shake your head, walk it off a bit, then be right back on the ice a few minutes later.

The afore-mentioned Paul Kariya came "off the floor, on the board!" in the cup finals. One of the most famous hockey calls of all time. Was literally knocked out by an open ice hit. Steven's shoulder square to the face. Was out on the ice for quite some time. Had to be helped up and to the locker room by his teammates. The hit was considered completely legal. He came back in the next period and scored a goal.... thus off the floor, on the board.

Paul Kariya doesn't even remember much of that game to this day he was concussed so bad. He was never the same after the hit... yet prior to the hit, he was clearly considered generational and was well on his way to backing it up.

I'd like to see where this ranks as one of the most famous hockey calls of all time. Top 10?

 

[TaLoN]

I'd like to see where this ranks as one of the most famous hockey calls of all time. Top 10?

Top 30 hockey calls of all-time, Miracle on Ice not No. 1 (Video)

What makes a classic hockey announcer call?

sports.yahoo.com

Here it's ranked at #3
#2 was do you believe in miracles, yes
#1 was Raymond Borque, a dream has come true

 

[TaLoN]

Stevens didn't need to change path as it was his goal to hit Kariya. Kariya was caught watching the puck which is something they coach out of you when you're 10? But none of that means the head was targeted.

Doesn't mean it wasn't either. "Targeted" is a subjective term that only the player themselves can answer for sure. Hence, you see it one way, I see it another. It is what it is.

 

[Tom Polakis]

Many of us were expecting third-pairing guy, but he's playing himself out of a lineup that features Troy Stecher and Josh Brown.

Matt Dumba Sucks!