Around the League 44: The Three Thousand Mile Final

[Lempo]

Yeah, i assume he takes a league minimum deal in toronto as soon as he can. If they want him (and at that price, they should).

They Marleau'd us right back!

 

[bleedgreen]

Thing is, even though we all knew that contract was stupidly expensive, I at least thought he would be a good player for them. I thought he would at least help push them to legitimate cup contention, even if his contract would become a boat anchor and prevent them from getting the pieces that pushed them over the top.

Unfortunately, he just completely gave up on trying to develop his defensive game and, while he definitely can put up some highlight plays and contribute offensively, he's TDA levels of bad in keeping the puck away from his own net. So bad that the Sabres, who absolutely are desperate to get into the playoffs, have gone to demoting him all the way down the lineup just to shelter his minutes that much because its killing them defensively.

Toronto would be stupid to go after him. As much as Necas isn't the right player for them to trade for, Skinner is even worse of a fit. He's make their weaknesses even worse and just marginally improve upon their strengths.

I could see him a fit back here, but only if you shelter him with guys who can play defensive hockey and let him roam the blue lines looking for a break-out. I could easily see him slot into the Necas spot after we trade him away, its not like we aren't used to it (even though Necas at least attempts to play defense). But I doubt he would want to come back here after the way things ended.

It'll be interesting to see where he ends up. Hell, I could see it be somewhere like Florida on the cheap where they're already so defensively sound they could take him on and just improve upon the roster they already have.

I’ve just never seen him as bad defensively as people want to say he is. He shouldn’t carry the puck through the neutral zone. To me that’s the majority if it. He takes care of the puck less than Necas does in that area. Once he’s in the offensive zone it’s a magnet on his stick and you aren’t getting it away from him. Yes he takes risks with passes but all good offensive players do that. In the zone I always thought he worked harder than smarter and chased the puck around too much. If he slowed down he’d puck watch and the guy he was supposed to cover would sneak away. These are problems many players have though, for some reason Skinner takes the heat. Thompson and Tuch for example were just as likely to make the same mistakes…and did. It just feels like low hanging fruit and scapegoating. That team doesn’t play defense. They don’t have enough good defenseman. Their group is young, and young pretty much never plays good team defense even if some of them individually actually get it. Skinner has never been the real problem defensively on either team. He’s a scoring winger, it’s barely their job to do more than cover the point and apply some back pressure. Which he generally does. I’ve always wondered if he’s too happy a person for coaches and management. As in he’s not pissed off enough when they lose, that he’s able to shake off a loss and go live his life better than they like? I wondered about that with us. So much losing early on in his career despite personal success and he’s seemingly a very positive and generally happy guy.

The big issue is the contract. It draws too much attention no matter what he does. For that part I get the need to figure something out so they can feel they’ve turned the page. He’s as rich as anyone would ever need to be so I don’t think it’s a bad thing for him. He’ll find work. For their sake I hope this really is something that’s needed, as even waiting one more year would help and they don’t have many guys to sign with plenty of cap space.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I think its finally got to the point with his age and how great defenseman are at skating now his Biggest advantage is gone. He should just sign a prove it deal with a team that has no chance if missing the playoffs, wherever that is.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think its finally got to the point with his age and how great defenseman are at skating now his Biggest advantage is gone. He should just sign a prove it deal with a team that has no chance if missing the playoffs, wherever that is.

I hope that’s what happens too. Much better that than to keep the streak going by getting paid better in SJ.

 

[Svechhammer]

I think its finally got to the point with his age and how great defenseman are at skating now his Biggest advantage is gone. He should just sign a prove it deal with a team that has no chance if missing the playoffs, wherever that is.

I mean I'm not joking, if I was Skinner I'm looking at Florida. They've got the team that would be able to take on his game and have his weaknesses masked by a team game, and also be able to leverage his strengths fully. He could lead them in scoring on the way to another Cup on a prove it deal.

 

[MinJaBen]

I mean I'm not joking, if I was Skinner I'm looking at Florida. They've got the team that would be able to take on his game and have his weaknesses masked by a team game, and also be able to leverage his strengths fully. He could lead them in scoring on the way to another Cup on a prove it deal.

Maybe he is a cheap Marner replacement if the Leafs decide to trade him. While Jeff would be smart to choose a team like Florida, he once chose Buffalo, so I am skeptical about his decision making.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Buffalo changed GMs, coaches 3x, and traded away / Let go of their top players: ROR (same off-season Skinner got their), Eichel (who also missed time with injury), Reinhart, Ulmark.

Kruger basically neutered the team offensively in his stint there.

Skinner certainly wasn't / isn't good defensively, but that team's been a mess with or without him.

EDIT: And they now have a decent core to build around with Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, and Cozens at forward and Dahlin, Powers, and Byram on D as well as some good prospects. They need to add the right guys with some experience without losing their top guys. Goaltending is a big question mark though.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I’ve just never seen him as bad defensively as people want to say he is. He shouldn’t carry the puck through the neutral zone. To me that’s the majority if it. He takes care of the puck less than Necas does in that area. Once he’s in the offensive zone it’s a magnet on his stick and you aren’t getting it away from him. Yes he takes risks with passes but all good offensive players do that. In the zone I always thought he worked harder than smarter and chased the puck around too much. If he slowed down he’d puck watch and the guy he was supposed to cover would sneak away. These are problems many players have though, for some reason Skinner takes the heat. Thompson and Tuch for example were just as likely to make the same mistakes…and did. It just feels like low hanging fruit and scapegoating. That team doesn’t play defense. They don’t have enough good defenseman. Their group is young, and young pretty much never plays good team defense even if some of them individually actually get it. Skinner has never been the real problem defensively on either team. He’s a scoring winger, it’s barely their job to do more than cover the point and apply some back pressure. Which he generally does. I’ve always wondered if he’s too happy a person for coaches and management. As in he’s not pissed off enough when they lose, that he’s able to shake off a loss and go live his life better than they like? I wondered about that with us. So much losing early on in his career despite personal success and he’s seemingly a very positive and generally happy guy.

The big issue is the contract. It draws too much attention no matter what he does. For that part I get the need to figure something out so they can feel they’ve turned the page. He’s as rich as anyone would ever need to be so I don’t think it’s a bad thing for him. He’ll find work. For their sake I hope this really is something that’s needed, as even waiting one more year would help and they don’t have many guys to sign with plenty of cap space.

I mean, the fancy stats would disagree with you.

I mean I'm not joking, if I was Skinner I'm looking at Florida. They've got the team that would be able to take on his game and have his weaknesses masked by a team game, and also be able to leverage his strengths fully. He could lead them in scoring on the way to another Cup on a prove it deal.

 

[LakeLivin]

. . . I’ve always wondered if he’s too happy a person for coaches and management. As in he’s not pissed off enough when they lose, that he’s able to shake off a loss and go live his life better than they like? I wondered about that with us. So much losing early on in his career despite personal success and he’s seemingly a very positive and generally happy guy.
. . .

I have no idea what he was like off the ice after a loss, but for a lot of his time here on the ice it seemed like he was maybe the only player on the Canes who really cared about winning, the only one playing with noticeable fire. His last season was an exception to that, which, given the circumstances leading up to it I kind of understand even if I wish it hadn't been so. I look at the ROR situation in Buffalo as an example of the effect a shitty environment can have on a player with even the best attitude.

edit: always liked the guy even as I recognized that he no longer fit here. Hope he does finally make it into the playoffs.

 

[bleedgreen]

I mean, the fancy stats would disagree with you.

Well I’ve hardly shied away from disagreeing with stats over the years.

important to note I’m not trying to say he’s a good defensive player. It’s not his bag, I know that well. It’s the level of hyperbole that is used by fans talking about him. The whole attitude that he shoots 20 pucks into his own net for every 20 he scores. He doesn’t sink the boat for your team. The stats reflect the teams he plays for imo.

As for the other analysis in there I agree with some and disagree with others. He’s a good passer. He didn’t pass as much here because there wasn’t anyone on the ice more likely to finish than him so he called his own shot. Which was likely what he was told to do. I just watched a video the other day showing all 47 of Thompsons goals a year ago, and many of them featured a really nice pass from Skinner. He adapted. I agree he’s an agile more than fast skater and horrible puck carrier through the neutral zone. For us he was arguably the best forechecker we had, he came out of the corner with pucks he had no business coming up with every game. He was like a shark with a drop of blood in the water. I didn’t see that as much for Buffalo.

 

[cptjeff]

I have no idea what he was like off the ice after a loss, but for a lot of his time here on the ice it seemed like he was maybe the only player on the Canes who really cared about winning, the only one playing with noticeable fire. His last season was an exception to that, which, given the circumstances leading up to it I kind of understand even if I wish it hadn't been so. I look at the ROR situation in Buffalo as an example of the effect a shitty environment can have on a player with even the best attitude.

edit: always liked the guy even as I recognized that he no longer fit here. Hope he does finally make it into the playoffs.

The "Skinner didn't care" narrative is one of the craziest narratives on this board, and that's saying a lot. He was deeply invested and outright angry at the team (and coaching staff's) complacency. He was tuned out the last year because the coaching staff had actively made him miserable, but for years, Skinner was the one with far more fire than anyone else while "leaders" like the Staals were perfectly content with their country club.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Continuing to defend skinner’s abysmal 2 way effort when the team needed the opposite to make the playoffs is something else

 

[Joe McGrath]

I mean I'm not joking, if I was Skinner I'm looking at Florida. They've got the team that would be able to take on his game and have his weaknesses masked by a team game, and also be able to leverage his strengths fully. He could lead them in scoring on the way to another Cup on a prove it deal.

They carried the carcas of Marc and Eric Staal to the finals last year so yeah Skinner would be fine.

 

[LakeLivin]

Continuing to defend skinner’s abysmal 2 way effort when the team needed the opposite to make the playoffs is something else

Who is defending Skinner's 2 way effort? My point is that at least he showed significant effort on offense, and he was a junkyard dog on the forecheck. I'm having a hard time coming up with any other Cane who played with any degree of fire for most of Skinner's tenure with the Canes. To blame Skinner for the Canes missing the playoffs seems almost irrational to me.

My target for insufficient effort for most of that time is Justin Faulk. With the caveat that I really liked how he played in his last season with the Canes (I'm guessing that playing alongside Slavin and Pesce might have rubbed off on him). My sense is that he was more or less anointed as the Golden Child from day one and that affected his play.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Who is defending Skinner's 2 way effort? My point is that at least he showed significant effort on offense, and he was a junkyard dog on the forecheck. I'm having a hard time coming up with any other Cane who played with any degree of fire for most of Skinner's tenure with the Canes. To blame Skinner for the Canes missing the playoffs seems almost irrational to me.

My target for insufficient effort for most of that time is Justin Faulk. With the caveat that I really liked how he played in his last season with the Canes (I'm guessing that playing alongside Slavin and Pesce might have rubbed off on him). My sense is that he was more or less anointed as the Golden Child from day one and that affected his play.

hockey is a 2 way game. effort in one and being a league worst in another isnt effort at all. His forecheck "effort" was some weird obsession with stealing the puck and taking a 3 on 1 shot that usually ended on a odd man chance the other way. Team needed strong play from him and he wanted to do his own thing.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806042878428295240

 

[ONO94]

I like Skinner and he is very talented and I believe that he is an invested hockey player. But for all his talent he just didn't seem to make his teams noticeably better. He only has 3/13 seasons with more assists than goals, only 3/13 seasons with more blocked shots than goals and still hasn't played 60 minutes on the PK for his career. No matter who he played with, the play generally died on his stick when he didn't score. He will get more chances as I think he is no worse than Tarasenko at this point--but I don't think he is difference maker.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Rule #1 continues the dumb irony of delaying the game to determine whether the game was delayed.

Rule #2 is good and hopefully is indicative of a recognition that the linesmen have really gotten silly about the tossing out of everyone and how long a single faceoff has been taking lately.

Rules #3 and #4 I don't care about and aren't solving anything the fans care about, I think.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Rule #1 continues the dumb irony of delaying the game to determine whether the game was delayed.

Rule #2 is good and hopefully is indicative of a recognition that the linesmen have really gotten silly about the tossing out of everyone and how long a single faceoff has been taking lately.

Rules #3 and #4 I don't care about and aren't solving anything the fans care about, I think.

I think nhl gms are getting wise to the fact that goalies are throwing themselves into the net when they squeeze the short size to get a whistle during a long D zone shift

 

[HisIceness]

Skinner was the right player for us, wrong time. Perhaps had the team not choked in that game 82 in 2011 for all we know he could have been the Conn Symthe winner.

But they choked and he became odd man out when the new regime took over.

 

[cptjeff]

I think nhl gms are getting wise to the fact that goalies are throwing themselves into the net when they squeeze the short size to get a whistle during a long D zone shift

Yeah, that's a good one, this will treat it like icing. Good proactive change for something that wasn't a big problem yet but very easily could have become one.

Not a huge fan of expanding the challenge, don't know why the f*** anyone cares about a player hanging a leg over the boards. Confused about the faceoff one, is this saying that the attacking center has more or less free rein to cheat on faceoffs after icing because they won't be kicked out? That seems stupid.

 

[To Be Determined]

Confused about the faceoff one, is this saying that the attacking center has more or less free rein to cheat on faceoffs after icing because they won't be kicked out? That seems stupid.

I assume it is to speed up the puck drop which i theoretically like after icing, but what happens if they do it again? would they get a delay of game?

 

[Derailed75]

hockey is a 2 way game. effort in one and being a league worst in another isnt effort at all. His forecheck "effort" was some weird obsession with stealing the puck and taking a 3 on 1 shot that usually ended on a odd man chance the other way. Team needed strong play from him and he wanted to do his own thing.

Skinner defended, just in his own way and in the neutral zone. If I am not mistaken his last few seasons here he was at the top of the league in takeaways, which he routinely did in the Ozone or Neutral zone.


This isn't to say he is a fit with this team. I just think a lot of what he did do well if not very well doesnt fit into the normal metrics and gets discounted despite it being very helpful to the team.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Skinner defended, just in his own way and in the neutral zone. If I am not mistaken his last few seasons here he was at the top of the league in takeaways, which he routinely did in the Ozone or Neutral zone.


This isn't to say he is a fit with this team. I just think a lot of what he did do well if not very well doesnt fit into the normal metrics and gets discounted despite it being very helpful to the team.

Takeaways in the ozone, and to a lesser extent, the neutral zone wasn’t the issue and not a metric of defensive prowess.

 

[bleedgreen]

Takeaways in the ozone, and to a lesser extent, the neutral zone wasn’t the issue and not a metric of defensive prowess.

Taking away pucks is an obvious defensive play no matter where it happens. Defense happens over 200 ft, and this is one the many reasons Datsyuk was who he was. Stripping pucks away from defenseman. It’s no different than closing a gap as a defenseman and killing a play before it barely makes it out of the zone. If you didn’t factor that ability into rating a defenseman you aren’t taking in the full picture.