Around the League 39: Will Kessel Sign in Winnipeg? The World Waits with Dogged Breath!

[MinJaBen]

I may be alone on this, but, I’d rather have Aho & Svech than one Austin Matthews, every day of the week & twice on Sundays.

I mean, sure. But Aho and Svech are about $17M and Matthews is $13.5M, so a better comparison would be Matthews and Bertuzzi at about $19M.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Tavares was signed before the cap growth was caboshed from COVID. No one could have foreseen that.

Dubas real issue was poor asset and goalie management. His style was very edmonton like. Signing depth guys to too much, cutting younger talent to keep cap compliant, and paying good assets to make other cap compliant issues work.

Dubas at least drafted better in the 2nd and later rounds to fill in a couple of gaps

 

[DaveG]

Yeah but at the same time Karlsson won't help keep the puck out of their own net, and that is a problem for them. In fact, he arguably makes it even tougher to do that, which isn't great when he'll be on their top defensive line.

Im not even sure they're a playoff team in the Metro right now.

Us and NJ are still quite clearly ahead of them, and that's even with the rumors of the Devils sniffing around Winnipeg coming to nothing so far. Rangers are still probably in front of them as well due to Shesty. All it takes is the Isles being pesky as always in front of an all-world goalie, or one of the three Atlantic teams that have been building the last few years taking that next step to keep them out, something I view as highly likely.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don't have a problem with the Matthews contract. But Marner should have been long gone by this point for high value and/or they shouldn't have gotten Tavares. Superstars get superstar money. But those two aren't superstars. I think Matthews, while not the typical playmaking center that does this, has managed to elevate some fine players to better than that. I think ideally, they would have not gotten Tavares, found a trade for a good D for Marner or Nylander, found a good 2C to build down the middle behind Matthews (maybe Kadri, but I get the hesitancy with the suspensions in the playoffs), and get some solid mid-tier wingers that would have looked better with Matthews. The only thing they might have done right is something the Oilers have struggled with, you don't need to give bigger contracts to those mid-tier wingers after they look good on the star's wing. Move on and replace.

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean, sure. But Aho and Svech are about $17M and Matthews is $13.5M, so a better comparison would be Matthews and Bertuzzi at about $19M.

Come the time for Matthews to extend, its very likely he'll be getting something in that $15.5m - $16m range, at which point the comparison is very apt

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Tavares is a reminder that there are different ways to skin the cat, or should I say the Stanley Cup (?). The three preceding cup winners in the lead up to the signing had Malkin and Backstrom up the middle to go with Crosby and Kuznetsov respectively. That formula was the justification for forcing it.

In the years since, teams have won it all with less centering the other scoring line: Schenn, Gourde (Stamkos missed most of the 2020 playoffs), Karlsson and ironically, Kadri.

There’s really a counterexample to every “can’t win without x” argument. Superstar F: Boston, St. Louis, arguably L.A. (x2). Elite point producing C: Anaheim, Boston, St. Louis, arguably L.A. (x2). #1 D: Carolina, Pittsburgh (x2). Vezina caliber goalie: Carolina, Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh (x2), St. Louis, Colorado, Vegas.

 

[Chrispy]

I question how much of that was Dubas and how much of that was guys wanting to play for their hometown team for one last go of things to go after a cup.

Bunting was obviously a great find for them a few years back. But much of their other depth signed there on discounts because it was the hometown team (Simmonds, Spezza, Gio) and they weren't a complete tire fire. If they're, say, San Jose instead they don't get the same level of guys willing to play there for basically nothing.

The thing I'd credit Dubas with is realizing he can sell "play for Toronto" to veterans wanting one last cup shot at home to get bargains on the bottom lines.

He clearly understands he can leverage that for cheap veteran depth. Whether he can do the same in Pittsburgh using Crosby & Malkin as the lures remains to be seen.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Come the time for Matthews to extend, its very likely he'll be getting something in that $15.5m - $16m range, at which point the comparison is very apt

Svech is up the year after Matthews.

But for the 28-29 season… sure. An apt comparison.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't have a problem with the Matthews contract. But Marner should have been long gone by this point for high value and/or they shouldn't have gotten Tavares. Superstars get superstar money. But those two aren't superstars. I think Matthews, while not the typical playmaking center that does this, has managed to elevate some fine players to better than that. I think ideally, they would have not gotten Tavares, found a trade for a good D for Marner or Nylander, found a good 2C to build down the middle behind Matthews (maybe Kadri, but I get the hesitancy with the suspensions in the playoffs), and get some solid mid-tier wingers that would have looked better with Matthews. The only thing they might have done right is something the Oilers have struggled with, you don't need to give bigger contracts to those mid-tier wingers after they look good on the star's wing. Move on and replace.

Marner to me is the perfect example of the danger in giving wingers the big money and making them a focal point. As amazing as he is take his money and turn it into a lesser but still productive winger and spend the rest somewhere else. Same with Nylander. Turn the two of them into two cheaper wingers and a good defenseman.

Tavares may be overpaid but I think he’s still a good 2C. It’s a tough position to fill so I’d just let him play it out. Can’t trade him without retention they don’t want to deal with right now anyways.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

I think Auston Matthews signed a fair deal. He is a marquee star, and he seems pretty likely to re-up in Toronto when it comes down to it. Back in the day, Joe Thornton took lots of 3 year deals instead of 10 year contracts when those were a thing. I don't get the vitriol of a 4 year deal. It's also possible that AM loses a step as he approaches 30 and fans are glad he didn't get max money for 8 years. He took a risk in that too. If he still is an elite top 3 center in the league 4 years from now, credit to him and he can ask for whatever he wants.

I agree that Tavares is a really good player but he adds more of what they have - elite scoring that is somewhat soft. Maybe it would have been better for Toronto to invest in a Pietrangelo or a trade for a stronger defense.

I had a soft spot for Toronto for years because I liked their draft strategy of taking overagers and their money puck style for finding depth. They've made a ton of shrewd moves in the Dubas era, and I'll give them credit for that. At the same time, I am peeved after they double dipped in the LTIR territory with the Matt Murray shenanigans. Seems like everyone is doing it but I don't like it.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I think Auston Matthews signed a fair deal. He is a marquee star, and he seems pretty likely to re-up in Toronto when it comes down to it. Back in the day, Joe Thornton took lots of 3 year deals instead of 10 year contracts when those were a thing. I don't get the vitriol of a 4 year deal. It's also possible that AM loses a step as he approaches 30 and fans are glad he didn't get max money for 8 years. He took a risk in that too. If he still is an elite top 3 center in the league 4 years from now, credit to him and he can ask for whatever he wants.

I agree that Tavares is a really good player but he adds more of what they have - elite scoring that is somewhat soft. Maybe it would have been better for Toronto to invest in a Pietrangelo or a trade for a stronger defense.

I had a soft spot for Toronto for years because I liked their draft strategy of taking overagers and their money puck style for finding depth. They've made a ton of shrewd moves in the Dubas era, and I'll give them credit for that. At the same time, I am peeved after they double dipped in the LTIR territory with the Matt Murray shenanigans. Seems like everyone is doing it but I don't like it.

Even if AM leaves some money in the table, he will be well over $100m in earnings by the time this contract ends.

Plus, with most of the new contract coming via bonus he is saving big time on taxes.

He bet on himself with the advantage that he has made mega $ already.

 

[htdoc]

No one has done what AM is doing. The only thing you can possibly say is he takes on a bit more risk by signing short term in the scenario he gets hurt or declines in performance such that he can’t command top dollar on the next deal.

McDavid did 8 years after his entry level deal. Even with the train wreck of asset management and talent evaluation they have in Edmonton with their awful team leadership they have still had way more success than Toronto and likely will before this 8 year contract is up for McDavid…

McKinnon did 7 years after his entry level deal and then did 8 years on his most recent renewal…. That 7 year deal turned out to be a great deal for Colorado and a big reason they were able to put together the roster they did to win the cup…

Aho did 5 years coming out of his entry level deal like Matthews…. At a much lower number commensurate with the difference in perceived performance AM provides as the Leafs #1 center versus Aho as our #1 center…. But Aho just did 8 years at market before the big jump in the cap…. AM does only 4 years and gets 3.5m more per year until his next deal where it will be even more with a higher cap assuming he continues to perform…

we get Aho and Necas for the cost of AM…..

Aho is not the same player that Matthews is. Not trying to say that…. But over the last six years, Aho has averaged 32.2 goals and 37.5 assists…. Matthews was hurt for a bigger chunk of one of those seasons compared to shorter injury periods for Aho…. He averaged over those same six seasons 43.2 goals and 35.7 assists…. That 60 goal season really helps shift the average goal per season numbers for Matthews…. But that extra $3.5m per season gets you another 10 goals, less assists, a higher scoring team overall including linemates, slightly better PP scoring rates, a player that doesnt really play the PK anywhere near like Aho does…. again, Aho is not Matthews. But he is not paid like Matthews and having superstar Matthews hasn’t helped Toronto to win a cup either…

Matthews makes more on this next contract than anyone else in the entire NHL…. and drags the price of the contract demands of his teammates higher as well…. It’s a bad precedent that was set to give the crazy deals they got coming out of entry level and bold courage is needed but the GM and leadership/ownership to break the cycle or it’s just going to be even more years since the last time the leafs won a cup….. I may be frustrated at times with some of the moves that my team makes. But overall I’m much happier with their contract valuation and business method to help build a team Than what they have done and continue to do in TO…

 

[Lempo]

It’s a bad precedent that was set to give the crazy deals they got coming out of entry level

It was a difficult thing to avoid because of McDavid having come of age and needing an extension.

Matthews lucked out big time by being born on Sep 17 and missing eligibility in the 2015 Entry Draft only by two days and becoming Toronno's McDavid instead of another Jack Eichel.

And at the same time, who knows how psychologically scarring it was for 18 years old Matthews to miss out a year's worth of NHL salary because of the somewhat arbitrary Sep 15 cutoff date in Entry Draft eligibility, and whether that is why he is so hell-bent to recover every penny.

A point: when Matthews' new contract was reported in Finland, it was put in the context that Finland's own Lauri Markkanen makes more in the NBA. I bet these best-in-their-sport guys in NHL are totally aware that they are being paid peanuts if compared to the top players in NBA, MLB and yankee footsy. Matthews has hard time making it into the top 10 of the highest-paid sportsmen in a Toronto team:

2024-25 Toronto Raptors Cap Table

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www.spotrac.com

2025 Toronto Blue Jays Payroll Table

An updated look at the Toronto Blue Jays 2025 payroll table, including team totals, retained figures, and complete breakdowns of player salaries, and bonuses.

www.spotrac.com

 

[chaz4hockey]

It was a difficult thing to avoid because of McDavid having come of age and needing an extension.

Matthews lucked out big time by being born on Sep 17 and missing eligibility in the 2015 Entry Draft only by two days and becoming Toronno's McDavid instead of another Jack Eichel.

And at the same time, who knows how psychologically scarring it was for 18 years old Matthews to miss out a year's worth of NHL salary because of the somewhat arbitrary Sep 15 cutoff date in Entry Draft eligibility, and whether that is why he is so hell-bent to recover every penny.

A point: when Matthews' new contract was reported in Finland, it was put in the context that Finland's own Lauri Markkanen makes more in the NBA. I bet these best-in-their-sport guys in NHL are totally aware that they are being paid peanuts if compared to the top players in NBA, MLB and yankee footsy. Matthews has hard time making it into the top 10 of the highest-paid sportsmen in a Toronto team:

2024-25 Toronto Raptors Cap Table

The Toronto Raptors 2024-25 salary cap table, including salary cap table, including team cap space, player cap hits, incentives, & bonus info.

www.spotrac.com

2025 Toronto Blue Jays Payroll Table

An updated look at the Toronto Blue Jays 2025 payroll table, including team totals, retained figures, and complete breakdowns of player salaries, and bonuses.

www.spotrac.com

Dominoes of AM in McDavid/Eichel class means we possibly get Marner not Hanafin. Following year, Leafs get Laine and perhaps we don’t take Bean.

Leafs were lucky that he missed by 2 days.

 

[Unsustainable]

Who cares about puckdoku, I want to see everyone's wordle results posted!

Wordle 797 4/6*

 

[MinJaBen]

Wordle 797 4/6*

 

[Lempo]

Wordle 797 4/6






After the first line I was sure I got you guys.

 

[Lempo]

Matthews lucked out big time by being born on Sep 17 and missing eligibility in the 2015 Entry Draft only by two days and becoming Toronno's McDavid instead of another Jack Eichel.

I just realized that only one of these players is a Stanley Cup Champion.

 

[Svechhammer]

Well this is equal parts funny and terrifying... lol

 

[hblueridgegal]

Sounds like an improvement.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Considering the threat by the Pettersson camp that the Canucks need to start winning or else, I'm pretty sure that they are the team most likely to give up the necessary haul for Pesce. The question is whether they're willing to give up their best trade asset to do so (aka. Kuzmenko).

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Sacrificing Kuzmenko for Pesce doesn’t seem like a net positive for them. They would want to add to the roster without subtracting a key piece.

Their farm is pretty poor.

Add in Pesce isn’t likely to waive for that place.

 

[Chrispy]

Sacrificing Kuzmenko for Pesce doesn’t seem like a net positive for them. They would want to add to the roster without subtracting a key piece.

Their farm is pretty poor.

Add in Pesce isn’t likely to waive for that place.

Yeah, Pesce either has a location on a list he's OK to go to, or if it's on a no-trade list it's a place he feels he can showcase himself in a contract year.

I don't think Vancouver makes either list.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Rubbing elbows with the stars and winners..Connor Bedard alongside the likes of Connor McDavid, Cale Makar, Nathan MacKinnon, Leon Draisaitl, John Tavares, Jack Eichel and Charlie McAvoy. Sounds like a hot ticket.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Sacrificing Kuzmenko for Pesce doesn’t seem like a net positive for them. They would want to add to the roster without subtracting a key piece.

Their farm is pretty poor.

Add in Pesce isn’t likely to waive for that place.

I was finagling around with the Canucks roster today. If they dump Tyler Myers somewhere and trade Kuzmenko, they could pick up both Pesce and Konecny. A Konecny acquisition by Vancouver likely makes them a far more appealing team.

Canucks Attempt to Keep Pettersson in 2024 - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

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