Around the League 36-But Who's Counting...

[surfzone365]

Caps look like a team every bit shorthanded and hurting.

 

[poobags]

DeAngelo played 31 minutes in Philly's OT loss to Columbus. Damn near half the game.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Interesting details from the Buffalo/Vancouver game:

Down 1 with two minutes to go, Sabres got two consecutive offensive zone faceoffs. The player they chose to take both of those faceoffs was Jeff Skinner.

Vancouver, defending their lead, put Ethan Bear on the ice for the final shift.

It, along with Geekie's recent run, goes to show you that not being the best fit for a loaded Carolina squad is not at all the same thing as not being an NHL player.

 

[Canes]

It, along with Geekie's recent run, goes to show you that not being the best fit for a loaded Carolina squad is not at all the same thing as not being an NHL player.

Remember when Elias Lindholm was a bust because he only put up 40 point seasons as a teenager/early 20s year old? Despite clearly showing tons of talent and defensive responsibility? No, not the talent but he has shown in Calgary but the talent anyone who has watched hockey for a long time knew would probably translate to the player he is now.

The fact is we, just like Mount Royal Canadian fans, are unjustly harsh with players especially once they leave the team. I just hope they are wrong and I am wrong about Kotkaniemi. I don't see even half the talent Lindholm had from the kid, he's just a mediocre player. Sometimes fans are right. He owned Corsi though, good for him. Hopefully he figures it out like Lindholm.

 

[Stickpucker]

Interesting details from the Buffalo/Vancouver game:

Down 1 with two minutes to go, Sabres got two consecutive offensive zone faceoffs. The player they chose to take both of those faceoffs was Jeff Skinner.

Vancouver, defending their lead, put Ethan Bear on the ice for the final shift.

Bill Peters has taught you well young Padawan (skinner)

It still blows my mind how many of our old players are carving out roles around the league and not just on bottom feeders. Guys on teams like TB and VGK. Maybe we should incorporate some of them and enjoy cap savings instead of signing a Stastny or Kase. Then we'd have more cap for a big dick trade.

An aside, I have a lot more patience for the team bringing Jarvis/Drury along and letting them progress than I do seeing a slow and/or old injury prone vet out there who doesn't look like a fit.

 

[Stickpucker]

It, along with Geekie's recent run, goes to show you that not being the best fit for a loaded Carolina squad is not at all the same thing as not being an NHL player.

This is the internet so I'll nitpick...didn't Geekie move on because he was one of the most obvious choices to expose for the expansion draft?

Listerine makes sense...but who wouldn't through in a lot of their 3rd tier prospects for a 50 pt 2c.

I don't even remember why we let Roy go at this point...was he part of the Haula trade on the quest to find a 2c?

 

[Chrispy]

DeAngelo played 31 minutes in Philly's OT loss to Columbus. Damn near half the game.

I expected to see a lot more than 3 minors on Columbus when I read this.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Bill Peters has taught you well young Padawan (skinner)

It still blows my mind how many of our old players are carving out roles around the league and not just on bottom feeders. Guys on teams like TB and VGK. Maybe we should incorporate some of them and enjoy cap savings instead of signing a Stastny or Kase. Then we'd have more cap for a big dick trade.

I guess the other side of that coin is we don’t know which guys are going to thrive, and the middle of a contention window isn’t the time to guess wrong.

We could be sitting here with Trevor Carrick and Janne Kuokkanen in key roles, talking about how the Borg doesn’t know what the **** they’re doing.

 

[AD Skinner]

This is the internet so I'll nitpick...didn't Geekie move on because he was one of the most obvious choices to expose for the expansion draft?

Geekie was selected in the expansion draft. I don't think they really wanted to lose him but they had to make players available

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This is the internet so I'll nitpick...didn't Geekie move on because he was one of the most obvious choices to expose for the expansion draft?

Listerine makes sense...but who wouldn't through in a lot of their 3rd tier prospects for a 50 pt 2c.

I don't even remember why we let Roy go at this point...was he part of the Haula trade on the quest to find a 2c?

Yep, Roy went for Haula. Vegas had the Chicago Wolves as their AHL squad that year and really liked what Roy did in the playoffs against them. Then Haula and Luostarinen, Wallmark, and Priskie I think went for Trocheck. What's funny is that if a year or two earlier someone would have offered Roy, Luostarinen, Wallmark, and Priskie for Trocheck, they would have been laughed off the trade forum and it would have been called a shit deal.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I guess the other side of that coin is we don’t know which guys are going to thrive, and the middle of a contention window isn’t the time to guess wrong.

We could be sitting here with Trevor Carrick and Janne Kuokkanen in key roles, talking about how the Borg doesn’t know what the **** they’re doing.

I still really wish Carrick had made it. He’s still toiling away in the ahl where he’s a pretty big point producer.

Also just learned he’s cousins with former canes draft pick Bobby Hughes.

 

[Stickpucker]

I guess the other side of that coin is we don’t know which guys are going to thrive, and the middle of a contention window isn’t the time to guess wrong.

We could be sitting here with Trevor Carrick and Janne Kuokkanen in key roles, talking about how the Borg doesn’t know what the **** they’re doing.

That's fair but as experts the onus is on them to make the right choices. What % should we expect someone who is an expert to hit on?

To their credit they've done a great job hitting on goalies the last few years which was probably the biggest failure of the RF years.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

That's fair but as experts the onus is on them to make the right choices. What % should we expect someone who is an expert to hit on?

To their credit they've done a great job hitting on goalies the last few years which was probably the biggest failure of the RF years.

If I recall correctly and I'm paraphrasing.

Tulsky in an interview on hits and misses. Said the way this org see things if you get 3 out of 5 right you are doing ok. You look at the 3 and say you're ahead. Other orgs mostly see the 2 wrong and you are out the door.

 

[MisterDobz]

So the Canes have scored 10 less goals than expected over 15 games. Quite a difference from prior seasons.

Not sure why this is a surprise, the Canes traded or let go players that scored over 70 goals last year or over 12 goals per every 15 games. They were replaced by Burns, Stasney, drury, Noesen and de Haan who have scored 6 In 16 games. Disastrous starts by TiVo, Jarvis and Koko balance it down to probably 10 goal per 15 games. Patches getting healthy will help but will not turn the tide. But this team just does not have the firepower as last years, even if the non performing players get on track. Thank goodness for Necas and Svetch or this season may be a disaster already.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not sure why this is a surprise, the Canes traded or let go players that scored over 70 goals last year or over 12 goals per every 15 games. They were replaced by Burns, Stasney, drury, Noesen and de Haan who have scored 6 In 16 games. Disastrous starts by TiVo, Jarvis and Koko balance it down to probably 10 goal per 15 games. Patches getting healthy will help but will not turn the tide. But this team just does not have the firepower as last years, even if the non performing players get on track. Thank goodness for Necas and Svetch or this season may be a disaster already.

Nobody said it was a surprise, particularly with Patches and Kase hurt (and now TT). I was responding to the comment that the Canes have had a lack of finish for the prior few years and showing that this year was different. But your comment about "70" goals is a tad bit misleading.

The key losses from offense were Nino and Tro and ADA who combined for 55 goals, which is not insignificant.

Burns, TDA's replacement is on pace for 15 so that's a wash so we are now looking at replacing the 40 of the 55 lost.

That was expected to come from Patches, Kase, and improvements from KK and Necas. Patches and Kase got hurt, KK hasn't been producing yet and Necas is exceeding what was expected.

As far as other guys: Lorentz scored 8, but Noesen is on pace for 11 so again a wash.
Cole/Bear/Smith aren't an issue replacing as they weren't here for offense and they only scored 11 goals combined.

No doubt the team needs to start cashing in, but the Canes need TT, KK and Jarvis to start producing as the season progresses and Patches coming back will certainly help.

And some perspective. We've lost three top 9 forwards from what we expected (Patches, Kase and TT), a few guys are struggling to score, our #1 goalie is hurt and struggled before that AND YET THE TEAM HAS THE 5TH BEST POINTS % IN THE NHL.

 

[hblueridgegal]

There’s been a bit of discussion on Twitter and other social that the reason many of our ex-players thrive post-Canes is that they are freed from the Canes style of play. On their new teams many are allowed to do what they do best and what comes most naturally to them vs being made to overly alter their skill set to get to play for the Canes…which can at times minimize their best contributions and assets especially on the offensive front.

 

[Cape Fear]

A few pages back someone mentioned how different it is to have players leave Carolina but still be good enough to play elsewhere so out of boredom I checked the rosters around the league & came up with this below. I tried to make an actual team but RW is is pretty slack

Nino - Lindholm - Lorentz (I know, I know, but I could only find three RW unless I missed someone)
Skinner - Trocheck - Gauthier
McGinn - Roy - Maenalanen
Foegle - Luostarinen - ?
Domi - Haula
Leivo - Geekie
Ryan

Forsling - Dougie
Hanifin - Faulk
Bean - TDA
Cole - B Smith
Fleury - TVR
Hakanpaa
Bear

Reimer
Mrazek
Ned
Forsberg

 

[tarheelhockey]

There’s been a bit of discussion on Twitter and other social that the reason many of our ex-players thrive post-Canes is that they are freed from the Canes style of play. On their new teams many are allowed to do what they do best and what comes most naturally to them vs being made to overly alter their skill set to get to play for the Canes…which can at times minimize their best contributions and assets especially on the offensive front.

This is a polite way of saying "they're scoring more because they're not paying as much attention to defense".

 

[chaz4hockey]

There’s been a bit of discussion on Twitter and other social that the reason many of our ex-players thrive post-Canes is that they are freed from the Canes style of play. On their new teams many are allowed to do what they do best and what comes most naturally to them vs being made to overly alter their skill set to get to play for the Canes…which can at times minimize their best contributions and assets especially on the offensive front.

Interesting...outside of Lindholm (who was very young with Canes), who has markedly improved after leaving the Canes?

Some examples:
Nino has 7 goals, but only 4 out of his last 14 (which puts him on LY pace).
Tony D is producing less than LY with 20% more ice time,
Dougie similar to 2 or 3 years he was with the Canes,
Geekie had 22 points LY with Kraken and producing this year but perhaps it's just his time.
Trochuk is similar to LY despite playing much more PP time & also 10% more minutes this year.

 

[Stickpucker]

There’s been a bit of discussion on Twitter and other social that the reason many of our ex-players thrive post-Canes is that they are freed from the Canes style of play. On their new teams many are allowed to do what they do best and what comes most naturally to them vs being made to overly alter their skill set to get to play for the Canes…which can at times minimize their best contributions and assets especially on the offensive front.

Which guys were they talking about? Dougie and TDA both played at their normal paces and Nino was almost ppg right after coming over when before he was a 40-50 pt player. He then regressed to his norm but I don't think we hurt any of those guys offense.

 

[Chrispy]

Interesting...outside of Lindholm (who was very young with Canes), who has markedly improved after leaving the Canes?

Some examples:
Nino has 7 goals, but only 4 out of his last 14 (which puts him on LY pace).
Tony D is producing less than LY with 20% more ice time,
Dougie similar to 2 or 3 years he was with the Canes,
Geekie had 22 points LY with Kraken and producing this year but perhaps it's just his time.
Trochuk is similar to LY despite playing much more PP time & also 10% more minutes this year.

I think Hanifin has as well, although he was also quite young at the time of the trade.

Beyond that, most of the evidence would be prospects who there wasn't really space for in Carolina and/or were used in trades to improve the team: Roy, Eetu, Forsling, maybe even Forsberg.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Who has really thrived after leaving the Canes style though?

Roy and Luostarinen never were really with the Canes. Clearly they were just developing.
Skinner has been the same basic player as he was here and never played under RBA.
Lindholm and Hanifin went with the same coach that played the same style they played here and never played under RBA
Wallmark is out of the league now.
Haula hasn't been any better than he was here in Carolina.
CDH did worse in Chicago.
TVR is the same as he was here in Carolina
Fleury is as bad as he was here in Carolina
Kuokkanen is out of the league.
Gauthier can't stay in the line-up in NY
Foegele did worse going to Edmonton
Dougie is the same Dougie he was for us.
Dzingle didn't do any better elsewhere.
TDA is the same TDA he was for us (small sample size).
Bean is a #5 defenseman in CLB
Ned has struggled in Detroit
Mrazek has struggled in Toronto.
Nino is on pace for 46 points this year
Trocheck is on pace for 53 points this year which is similar to what he did here.
Forsling never got a shot with the Canes

Faulk had a great year last year where he had more ozone starts playing with Krug, but his first 2 years were similar to Carolina. He's off to a great start this year.
Geekie just was a case of a guy that was still developing and got a much bigger role in Seattle.

Off the top of my head, I don't see a lot of guys that "thrived" once they left the confines of the Canes system. Am I missing someone?

 

[hblueridgegal]

Which guys were they talking about? Dougie and TDA both played at their normal paces and Nino was almost ppg right after coming over when before he was a 40-50 pt player. He then regressed to his norm but I don't think we hurt any of those guys offense.

I will try to find the post for the specific players...one poster has said more than once that it contributed to Tro going elsewhere...that it wasn't just the money.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

Who has really thrived after leaving the Canes style though?


Off the top of my head, I don't see a lot of guys that "thrived" once they left the confines of the Canes system. Am I missing someone?

Without checking stats it seems Brock is doing about the same, perhaps a bit less?

 

[Derailed75]

I will try to find the post for the specific players...one poster has said more than once that it contributed to Tro going elsewhere...that it wasn't just the money.

I really liked Tro here but if he really wanted to leave because despite winning he couldnt live without scoring more goals than I am glad he moved on. No offense to the report but that really seem counter to most hockey culture where winning isnt everything, its the only thing.