Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

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ABasin

Registered User
Dec 4, 2002
10,895
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Fan service/respecting the player vs the desire to contend. I personally don't begrudge either action, but the realistic choice is if you re-sign him for anything more than a massive discout, you aren't contending.

Now if Stammer would re-sign for 5.5 x 4... you have a guy that'll pop in 15-20 power play goals a season and probably another 10 at EV. That's solid value for a top 6/middle 6 wing even as he ages since PPG tend to be sticky. That number would be pretty insulting for what he has done though.
Yep.

I admit, I typically lean towards the contending side of this. All teams lose their players at some point. I think it was you who said that father time is undefeated. I get the respect/nostalgia thing also, but would rather have the best team out there, regardless of the other stuff.

Perhaps I'm just damaged a bit from "the lost decade" in Avs history.

I feel like ownership in Tampa isn't as attached to long-time players as other orgs might be.

What would probably be insane but fun to see play out is Tampa trading Stamkos and Hedman for the biggest hauls possible.
#AssetManagement :nod:
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Tampa walked away from both Lecavalier and St. Louis before, no? Though St. Louis seemed to be due to Yzerman pissing him off.

I feel like ownership in Tampa isn't as attached to long-time players as other orgs might be.

What would probably be insane but fun to see play out is Tampa trading Stamkos and Hedman for the biggest hauls possible.

St Louis forced his way off after the Olympics thing. Lecavalier was a timing thing with the compliance buyout. They knew it was their shot to get out from that contract for a player that was clearly on the wrong side of the aging curve. It was a bit ruthless, but it was absolutely necessary for them to contend in the following years. Vinny didn't even make it through the contract he signed after the buyout.

Yep.

I admit, I typically lean towards the contending side of this. All teams lose their players at some point. I think it was you who said that father time is undefeated. I get the respect/nostalgia thing also, but would rather have the best team out there, regardless of the other stuff.

Perhaps I'm just damaged a bit from "the lost decade" in Avs history.


#AssetManagement :nod:
This is one of those cases where I personally don't think there is a wrong answer. Just the consequences change. I'd probably lean myself to trying to have a last shot or two even if it is very unlikely, but I also get the recognition of likely being cooked... so it doesn't hurt and keeps fans happy.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
39,524
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Edmonton, Alberta
St Louis forced his way off after the Olympics thing. Lecavalier was a timing thing with the compliance buyout. They knew it was their shot to get out from that contract for a player that was clearly on the wrong side of the aging curve. It was a bit ruthless, but it was absolutely necessary for them to contend in the following years. Vinny didn't even make it through the contract he signed after the buyout.
But boy did Vinny secure the bag after that buyout. Financial legend.

EDIT: On the topic of Vinny, man he has to be one of the more disappointing 1st overall picks relative to expectations. I remember the hype around him was insane. He had what, two truly "dominant" seasons in 06-07 and 07-08? Otherwise he was a good 1st liner but nothing elite.
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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But boy did Vinny secure the bag after that buyout. Financial legend.

EDIT: On the topic of Vinny, man he has to be one of the more disappointing 1st overall picks relative to expectations. I remember the hype around him was insane. He had what, two truly "dominant" seasons in 06-07 and 07-08? Otherwise he was a good 1st liner but nothing elite.
I personally have a hard time calling a guy disappointing when he was a core member on a Cup team, won a major award, and captain all at the team he was drafted with. If you guaranteed any team that arc with a 1st overall, they'd sign up in a hearbeat.

I wouldn't even think he approaches the EJ/Jovocop level of 1st overall guys... let alone the Yakupov/Stefan/Daigle level.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
39,524
44,116
Edmonton, Alberta
I personally have a hard time calling a guy disappointing when he was a core member on a Cup team, won a major award, and captain all at the team he was drafted with. If you guaranteed any team that arc with a 1st overall, they'd sign up in a hearbeat.

I wouldn't even think he approaches the EJ/Jovocop level of 1st overall guys... let alone the Yakupov/Stefan/Daigle level.
I'm not saying he had a disappointing career. However, the actual results didn't seem to catch up to the hype.

I don't think guys like EJ/Jovanovski/Yakupov/Stefan had all that much hype. Daigle we know was insanely hyped and ruined his own career.

Relative to expectations from the owner who drafted him and called him the NHLs Michael Jordan (stupid) he might say Vinny was disappointing lol.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
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I'm not saying he had a disappointing career. However, the actual results didn't seem to catch up to the hype.

I don't think guys like EJ/Jovanovski/Yakupov/Stefan had all that much hype. Daigle we know was insanely hyped and ruined his own career.

Relative to expectations from the owner who drafted him and called him the NHLs Michael Jordan (stupid) he might say Vinny was disappointing lol.
I recall a lot of EJ hype. I just don't personally think that Vinny's career was bad at all. He wasn't a generational player like some (including Pierre) were thinking, but he was a damn good hockey player.

Art Williams was a special kind of stupid as an owner in the hockey world. Even he recognized it and got out after a year. :laugh:
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
39,524
44,116
Edmonton, Alberta
I recall a lot of EJ hype. I just don't personally think that Vinny's career was bad at all. He wasn't a generational player like some (including Pierre) were thinking, but he was a damn good hockey player.

Art Williams was a special kind of stupid as an owner in the hockey world. Even he recognized it and got out after a year. :laugh:
That's the thing. Some were thinking of Vinny as generational, even before the "generational" label started being applied to seemingly every soon-to-be 1st overall pick.
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
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That's the thing. Some were thinking of Vinny as generational, even before the "generational" label started being applied to seemingly every soon-to-be 1st overall pick.
I feel like Daigle brought that term to every top pick and we've just continued to run with it. But I just can't get behind a guy with his career being disappointing. :laugh:
 
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AvsGuy

Hired the wrong DJ again
Sep 13, 2002
10,602
2,743
Regina, SK
Don't forget that Lacroix stockpiled first rounders in 1998 in an attempt to get Lecavalier here. We could have had Michael Jordan, instead we got Puck Poise and The Sheriff. And people complain about drafting now.

And, you know, Tanguay and Regehr

If we had 4 first round picks anytime soon who here wouldn't happily take a 50% hit rate

Wonder what percentage of Avalanche picks have actually ever had an NHL career, we must have a success percentage of about 3.6%
 
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Ceremony

How I choose to feel is how I am
Jun 8, 2012
114,305
17,395
And, you know, Tanguay and Regehr

If we had 4 first round picks anytime soon who here wouldn't happily take a 50% hit rate

Wonder what percentage of Avalanche picks have actually ever had an NHL career, we must have a success percentage of about 3.6%
Puck Poise, the Sheriff, Tanguay and 32 games of Theo Fleury. The HF threads would have tens of thousands of posts in them if four 1st rounders produced that.

 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
53,592
Puck Poise, the Sheriff, Tanguay and 32 games of Theo Fleury. The HF threads would have tens of thousands of posts in them if four 1st rounders produced that.

The Selanne and Kariya season might be the most disappointing in Avs history.. the Theo Fleury run is probably #2. His 15 game stretch to end the season was amazing. They looked unbeatable. Coming down from 0-2 to beat the Wings in 6, I was absolutely sure of another Cup. Jaime F Langenbrunner and Mike Keane just destroyed it all in Game 6 and 7.
 

expatriatedtexan

Habitual Line Stepper
Aug 17, 2005
18,754
15,192
The Selanne and Kariya season might be the most disappointing in Avs history.. the Theo Fleury run is probably #2. His 15 game stretch to end the season was amazing. They looked unbeatable. Coming down from 0-2 to beat the Wings in 6, I was absolutely sure of another Cup. Jaime F Langenbrunner and Mike Keane just destroyed it all in Game 6 and 7.
Those two players were extremely tough to play against. Mike Keane was also just a strait damn winner... 3 cups, 3 different teams. Of course, I still refuse to officially recognize the 99 cup, as Hull's foot was clearly in the crease and as stupid as the rule was, it was the rule.
 

Balthazar

I haven't talked to the trainers yet
Sponsor
Apr 25, 2006
52,271
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If Tampa walks away from Stamkos and trade Hedman next summer they'll haver another window with Kucherov, Point, Sergachev, Cirelli, Paul, Cernak, Vasi and an extra 17M to play with.
 
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Colorado Avalanche

No Babe pictures
Sponsor
Apr 24, 2004
29,523
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Lieto
Which owner would honestly want Jarmo as GM after this? The team has been bad for mostly ever, now this?

He better pray Columbus pulls out a miracle and makes playoffs.
You have to look at how successful they were before him. Not very. He brought them the most success they ever had and signed a big name player. Can't blame him really. He also made some big moves but almost no player wants to stay there. That makes things complicated.

I think he is not fantastic, but not terrible either. Somewhere in the middle. I would say some smaller team could bite.

Jarmo was given every chance to succeed though, but he failed a bit.

If Tampa walks away from Stamkos and trade Hedman next summer they'll haver another window with Kucherov, Point, Sergachev, Cirelli, Paul, Cernak, Vasi and an extra 17M to play with.
And those guys would return some interesting assets
 
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