Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

[Gruyeriev]

Our fav former PTO Artem Anisimov is giving it a go with the Wings this time

 

[Foppa2118]

So Julien Brisebois thinks Stamkos just had the best two year stretch of his career, and he expects him to continue playing at a high level for many years after turning 34, and the Bolts will also continue to be contenders for years?

I'd love to hear someone bring up age regression and Cup windows with players after 28 years old the next time him or Stammer has a presser.

 

[Chiarelli]

@S E P H approves.

the lads play throw ball in rubbish kits

 

[Chiarelli]

If Tampa walks away from Stamkos and trade Hedman next summer they'll haver another window with Kucherov, Point, Sergachev, Cirelli, Paul, Cernak, Vasi and an extra 17M to play with.

Kuch and Point are broken compared to years past. It's basically Vasi - the rest of those guys don't move the needle

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Kuch and Point are broken compared to years past. It's basically Vasi - the rest of those guys don't move the needle

And Vasi started showing signs of cracks in the playoffs.

 

[MacKaRant]

So Julien Brisebois thinks Stamkos just had the best two year stretch of his career, and he expects him to continue playing at a high level for many years after turning 34, and the Bolts will also continue to be contenders for years?

I'd love to hear someone bring up age regression and Cup windows with players after 28 years old the next time him or Stammer has a presser.

You didn't really expect BriseBois to come out and say, "Stammer was a bit sh*t the last couple years and we can't wait to lower his cap hit to something more in line with his old man play"?

 

[Foppa2118]

You didn't really expect BriseBois to come out and say, "Stammer was a bit sh*t the last couple years and we can't wait to lower his cap hit to something more in line with his old man play"?

That wouldn't be true though. He had 84 points last year and 106 the year before.

Statistically it has been his best two year stretch in his career at 32 and 33 years old.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

That wouldn't be true though. He had 84 points last year and 106 the year before.

Statistically it has been his best two year stretch in his career at 32 and 33 years old.

Obviously he is lying about his age. He was 26 and 27.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

From 2010 to 2013, Stamkos had 95, 91, 97, and 57(Lockout year) points, and finished 5th, 5th, 2nd, and 2nd in league scoring. He also averaged 52 goals per season in the 3 full length years.


In 2022, Stamkos had 106 points and finished 7th in league scoring. In 2023 he had 84 points and finished 23rd in league scoring, and averaged 38 goals over the last 2 years.


A literal perfect example of regression despite increased offensive numbers. Its just really, really difficult for some people to understand the basic concept of different scoring eras.

 

[MarkT]

Yeah, no, that's not entirely true.

If Mike Babcock starts healthy scratching or playing Mitch Marner on the 4th line, for example, well he'd better have a good god damn reason to explain to the GM who picked him so high. And if his answer is "he told me to f*** off" I assume the GM would want to pry more into WHY that player told the coach that.

It isn't as black and white as "rookie scared, listen to coach." A lot of young players will fall in line, but there are some who won't. Like I said, I would hope some Jackets player told him to f*** off.

I'm not sure you totally grasp how guys like Mike Babcock function. In his mind, he's not going through phones and asking players to rank their teammates to be a dick. He's doing it to teach young players the skills necessary to be a pro, or to test their character. So when you tell him to f*** off, he's going to tell the GM that you're not a team player, or that you're immature, or something like that. Sure, if you're lucky the GM investigates on your behalf, but I wouldn't bet on it. Meanwhile, instead of letting Babcock look at pictures of your drunken shenanigans, you're playing in Cleveland or 6 minutes a night in Columbus.

 

[Foppa2118]

Stamkos was tied for 6th in the NHL with 106 points at 32 years old. The Lightning were two wins away from winning 3 Stanley Cups in a row with almost their entire core 29-32 years old.

A literal perfect example of the age regression and Cup window talk being proven wrong. Multiple times in terms of ages and Cups, let alone as contenders, which is what the narrative is. Reality is just really difficult for some who want to push narratives.

Basic math must be really difficult for anyone that thinks Stammer's production proves he's regressed too. Especially to the extent required to fit the narrative.

Stamkos has paced for 43 more points at age 29-33 than he did at age 24-28, and regressed a whopping 6 goals over five seasons.

As for the different eras, he's regressed from the 10th most pts/gm from age 24-28 to 14th in pts/gm from 29-33. What trash he's become. Can't win a Cup with a guy like that. Oh wait they won 2 Cups with a guy like that age 29-33 and 0 Cups with the 24-28 year old.

Stamkos Points Per Game Over 5 Seasons

24-28 Years Old: 10th in NHL
29-33 Years Old: 14th in NHL

Stamkos Goals + Points Per Game Pace Over 5 Seasons

24-28 Years Old: 207 goal 415 point pace
29-33 Years Old: 201 goal 458 point pace

Stamkos Production

24 Years Old: 25 goals (55 goal pace) - 40 points (89 pt pace)
25 Years Old: 43 Goals (43 goal pace) - 72 Points (72 pt pace)
26 Years Old: 36 Goals (38 goal pace) - 64 Points (68 pt pace)
27 Years Old: 9 goals (43 goal pace) - 20 points (96 pt pace)
28 Years Old: 27 goals (28 goal pace) - 86 points (90 pt pace)
29 Years Old: 45 goals (45 goal pace) - 98 points (98 pt pace)
30 Years Old: 29 goals (42 goal pace) - 66 points (95 pt pace)
31 Years Old: 17 goals (37 goal pace) - 34 points (73 pt pace)
32 Years Old: 42 goals (43 goal pace) - 106 points (107 pt pace)
33 Years Old: 34 goals (34 goal pace) - 84 points (85 pt pace)

 

[Grigowski]

Who cares what Brisebois says and Stamkos Stats.....

It´s clear to see that Tampa´s time is up. And we, basically, are responsible for that.

They had their time and runs (and tax advantage!) And boy, what a run it was. Nothing but respect. But it´s over.

That´s the way things go....

 

[Foppa2118]

Who cares what Brisebois says and Stamkos Stats.....

It´s clear to see that Tampa´s time is up. And we, basically, are responsible for that.

They had their time and runs (and tax advantage!) And boy, what a run it was. Nothing but respect. But it´s over.

That´s the way things go....

Has nothing to do with whether their time has finally run out. We don't know if it has and it's going to eventually.

It has to do with the narrative that's repeated daily about how your Cup window closes and you can't be a contender because star players regress too much after 29 years old. Not to mention this is a goal post shift from the window closing a couple years ago, and then closing again after Nate's new contract.

This is definitively untrue since Stamkos has barely regressed, if at all in his 30's, and Tampa nearly won 3 Cups with almost their entire core 29-32 years old.

if you don't care if the Avs win more Cups as Nate and Mikko turn 29+ then it doesn't matter whether they can continue to compete. If you do care then it does.

 

[Chiarelli]

Has nothing to do with whether their time has finally run out. We don't know if it has and it's going to eventually.

It has to do with the narrative that's repeated daily about how your Cup window closes and you can't be a contender because star players regress too much after 29 years old. Not to mention this is a goal post shift from the window closing a couple years ago, and then closing again after Nate's new contract.

This is definitively untrue since Stamkos has barely regressed, if at all in his 30's, and Tampa nearly won 3 Cups with almost their entire core 29-32 years old.

if you don't care if the Avs win more Cups as Nate and Mikko turn 29+ then it doesn't matter whether they can continue to compete. If you do care then it does.

Tampa knew how to draft tho

 

[Foppa2118]

Tampa knew how to draft tho

That's a fair point, but I don't think that will prevent the Avs from winning again.

They have a core that should be able to contend for a bit. So they've already taken care of the hardest part in terms of drafting and team building. Their poor drafting now mostly impacts their depth.

But Joe and CMac have proven themselves very good at filling out that depth with trades (Colton, RyJo, Lehky, Manson, Cogs, Toews, Burakovsky, Kadri, Saad, Malgin, Georgiev), bargain UFA's (Drouin, Nuke, ERod, Tatar, JJ), and waiver pickups (Nieto, Nemeth, NAK).

If they weren't good at that though, then they'd be in trouble I agree.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Kuch and Point are broken compared to years past. It's basically Vasi - the rest of those guys don't move the needle

Kuch and Point are broken? Kuch is coming off 113pt season and Point had 51 goals last year?

So Julien Brisebois thinks Stamkos just had the best two year stretch of his career, and he expects him to continue playing at a high level for many years after turning 34, and the Bolts will also continue to be contenders for years?

I'd love to hear someone bring up age regression and Cup windows with players after 28 years old the next time him or Stammer has a presser.

I mean… Stamkos’ stretch from when he was 19-22 was easily better than his last two. Scoring was way lower then and while he’s still good he’s clearly a worse player than he was then. Regression doesn’t mean bad…

 

[henchman21]

The #1 issue with Tampa is depth. The #2 issue is wear and tear. Kuch and Point don't approach the main issues.

On the depth, Tampa is now having to pay players what they are worth. Their sweetheart deals are really over and paying Serg, Point, Cernak, Kuch, Cirelli, Vasi, etc what they are worth means they don't have enough cap to go around. They got around this by buying cheap contracts like Hagel. Those are coming to an end now. So they don't have guys like Coleman, Gourde, Goodrow, Colton... or even Perry, Maroon, etc. As they are setup today, they are great top line, okay 2nd line, garbage bottom 6... great top pairing, good middle pairing, garbage bottom pairing. The replenishment of talent hasn't been enough to overcome the cap issues.

The wear and tear is also very evident. Cernak just can't stay healthy at all, he's a skating concussion waiting to happen. Stamkos and Hedman have had nagging issues for years that may not keep them out but impact their effectiveness. Cirelli's shoulders are going to be major issues going forward.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

But, but, but, I thought only the Avs have injuries this early?

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Balthazar]

Bert's agent is smiling

 

[SaltySkywalker]

I hear they're operating at the Robidas Island Medical Center.

E: Sorrey. Medical Centre.

You just can't help but throw in extra vowels, can you?

 

[dahrougem2]

I'm not sure you totally grasp how guys like Mike Babcock function. In his mind, he's not going through phones and asking players to rank their teammates to be a dick. He's doing it to teach young players the skills necessary to be a pro, or to test their character. So when you tell him to f*** off, he's going to tell the GM that you're not a team player, or that you're immature, or something like that. Sure, if you're lucky the GM investigates on your behalf, but I wouldn't bet on it. Meanwhile, instead of letting Babcock look at pictures of your drunken shenanigans, you're playing in Cleveland or 6 minutes a night in Columbus.

Again, that's not how it works. Young players with high pedigrees aren't going to be sent to Cleveland or the Marlies or back to junior because they told Babcock to f*** off when he asked to look through their phones.

This isn't some 26 year old potential 4th liner here. These young kids - and their agents, especially - have the ability to tell Babcock to f*** off and not be punished because there are lines of communication between GM and player/agent that don't include a coach.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[UncleRisto]

You just can't help but throw in extra vowels, can you?

What do you mean, eh?

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

The Babcock stuff is really disturbing, tbh.

I think it could be more of him looking for intimate photos of the players, or the players and their significant others than it is a power dynamic thing.

Because these are things that he’s done before and he can’t stop. Like, if you need some pictures for team building, just ask. If you want to lord your power over players just talk to them. It’s really weird.