Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

[Avs_19]

Jenner was kinda done dirty in all of this. First Bissonnette mentions him by name, which leads to him having to put out a statement that backs Babcock. Then we find out it might be a lot worse than what Jenner dealt with but he may not have known that. He's caught in the middle of it all.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Punches? I don't recall any of those.

Slaps are his punches

 

[Foppa2118]

It was a mistake for anyone to assume it was just innocently looking at photos of family, pets, and hobbies, when multiple players said they weren't comfortable with what happened.

Does that sound like something multiple people would be uncomfortable with? Or does that sound like there might be more to this, and we should wait before defending him?

The former was never a reasonable assumption. It was just a knee jerk reaction influenced by bias.

The impulse to immediately defend Babcock, when no one knew what happened, is part of the problem. Especially when he's already shown us who he is multiple times now.

 

[UncleRisto]

It was a mistake for anyone to assume it was just innocently looking at photos of family, pets, and hobbies, when multiple players said they weren't comfortable with what happened.

Does that sound like something multiple people would be uncomfortable with? Or does that sound like there might be more to this, and we should wait before defending him?

The former was never a reasonable assumption. It was just a knee jerk reaction influenced by bias.

The impulse to immediately defend Babcock, when no one knew what happened, is part of the problem. Especially when he's already shown us who he is multiple times now.

No it isn't. The impulse to not wait and see when we don't know is what the problem is.

 

[Balthazar]

I don't think he's done a horrible job, but I think it is fair to say he's failed to execute a successful long-term plan for the team and I think all of the forced roster changes made him lose his vision. He seems to be reacting a lot.

Vision? What vision?

I get that ownership can be a PITA when you're building a team but ownership didn't make him do terrible trades, terrible non-trades, shit UFA signings and shit coach hirings.

Fantilli could be the very best thing that happened to that franchise ever and Jarmo shouldn't be the one in charge to start the kid's career.

 

[Foppa2118]

No it isn't. The impulse to not wait and see when we don't know is what the problem is.

Not sure what problem that would be, but you're describing the people who defended him.

Myself and the critical comments of him I saw, basically said they weren't buying the PR statement and that at best what was described, confirmed by the reports from Friedman, was him abusing his power to invade the privacy of others, and that there could be more we didn't know. There's no assumptions there.

The comments I saw in support of him were saying it'll turn out to be a mountain made out of a molehill, the younger generation is soft now for getting upset because they could have just said no, and even went so far as to cast doubt on whether Biz confirming this with a "member of the team" meant the Blue Jackets or the Chiclets team. Lots of (incorrect) assumptions there.

 

[Avs_19]

Good article from Portzline here.

 

[S E P H]

The funniest aspect in all this is that Biz and Splittin' Chicklets were the ones right lol.

 

[UncleRisto]

Not sure what problem that would be

No?

 

[Foppa2118]

No?

I didn't want to assume what you meant, but it wouldn't have been the problem I was referring to, of hockey culture and why these things still happen.

I would think the opposite side of that argument would mean that as the problem of men being accused of wrongdoing, but I wasn't sure, and didn't think that's what you intended it to sound like.

 

[UncleRisto]

I didn't want to assume what you meant, but it wouldn't have been the problem I was referring to, of hockey culture and why these things still happen.

I would think the opposite side of that argument would mean that as the problem of men being accused of wrongdoing, but I wasn't sure, and didn't think that's what you intended it to sound like.

Well, no it has nothing to do with men specifically. I'm just saying let's at least wait it out even if a guy is a known dickwad. Anyway, you'd have been right.

 

[Avs9296]

I don't think he's done a horrible job, but I think it is fair to say he's failed to execute a successful long-term plan for the team and I think all of the forced roster changes made him lose his vision. He seems to be reacting a lot.

As for the Mike Babcock thing.... I'm not positive whose decision it was. John Davidson was brought back in after Drury showed him the door, and hiring Mike Babcock seems more like a JD idea than a Jarmo one. Either way, I think the organization is at a point where a new vision is probably for the best. If I was McConnell, I'd probably can both JD and Jarmo. Not sure who's available to replace them though. Maybe they could get Darche from Tampa Bay. I still want to see Patrick Roy back in the NHL, but I doubt the lights of Columbus burn bright enough for him.

I just don't see how Jarmo is going to survive media day.

He's won 1 playoff round in 10 YEARS and the team has gotten worse the last couple years he's been in charge. It's a resounding failure anyway you look at it. This is just the icing on the shit cake he's made.

 

[Foppa2118]

Well, no it has nothing to do with men specifically. I'm just saying let's at least wait it out even if a guy is a known dickwad. Anyway, you'd have been right.

I hesitate to go down this rabbit hole, but I think you're an intelligent thoughtful person Risto, who can have conversations without emotion coming into play.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the percentage of situations like this, where people see credible reports of potential wrongdoing, and the ones who aren't being critical of the accused say people are jumping to conclusions, end up being proven correct? That the incident was indeed innocent?

It definitely happens, and it's worth pointing out the possibility, but my completely unscientific guess is that this represents the extreme outliers not the norm. Less than 5% at best and probably less than 1% IMO.

Which to me means we should be mindful of not jumping to conclusions either way, but we also shouldn't equate that problem, with the problem of the majority of incidents where someone did indeed abuse their power, and the criticism ended up being warranted.

 

[The Moops]

I don't think he's done a horrible job, but I think it is fair to say he's failed to execute a successful long-term plan for the team and I think all of the forced roster changes made him lose his vision. He seems to be reacting a lot.

As for the Mike Babcock thing.... I'm not positive whose decision it was. John Davidson was brought back in after Drury showed him the door, and hiring Mike Babcock seems more like a JD idea than a Jarmo one. Either way, I think the organization is at a point where a new vision is probably for the best. If I was McConnell, I'd probably can both JD and Jarmo. Not sure who's available to replace them though. Maybe they could get Darche from Tampa Bay. I still want to see Patrick Roy back in the NHL, but I doubt the lights of Columbus burn bright enough for him.

I just don't see how Jarmo is going to survive media day.

If they can JD and Jarmo, they can just hire Roy and get a GM/Coach combo for the price of 1

 

[Foppa2118]

I mean his role is pretty questionable IMO. He must've heard how some of the younger players are not ok with this practice, even if he was. Surely that has come up in a group text or something. And he did nothing. How will that locker room look now? Him and other vets defended Babcock here, and now Babs is gone.

He needs to put out another statement on behalf of the younger players now.

Doesn't have to throw Babcock under the bus if he doesn't want to, but he should support his teammates. That's how a true leader would handle this.

It's the right thing to do first of all, but if he does that it would help the group come together as a team, rather than fragment or fall apart.

 

[UncleRisto]

I hesitate to go down this rabbit hole, but I think you're an intelligent thoughtful person Risto, who can have conversations without emotion coming into play.

Out of curiosity, what do you think the percentage of situations like this, where people see credible reports of potential wrongdoing, and the ones who aren't being critical of the accused say people are jumping to conclusions, end up being proven correct? That the incident was indeed innocent?

It definitely happens, and it's worth pointing out the possibility, but my completely unscientific guess is that this represents the extreme outliers not the norm. Less than 5% at best and probably less than 1% IMO.

Which to me means we should be mindful of not jumping to conclusions either way, but we also shouldn't equate that problem, with the problem of the majority of incidents where someone did indeed abuse their power, and the criticism ended up being warranted.

Fair enough. I just think the initial report didn't warrant jumping to conclusions. Just because the criticism often ends up being warranted doesn't mean we need to get a head start.

That said, I do recognize how that can give the idea that someone is in support of Babcock here. It did cross my mind that it could just be the young players being annoying. I shall think about that.

 

[RockLobster]

There usually is. I'm a big fan of second chances and while I had my serious reservations about Mike when he was first hired, I warmed to this chance over the summer. It's a little hard for me to believe that Mike's second chance was burned this easily. It was just Jenner that defended Mike either, Johnny Hockey did as well. Wonder how he's feeling about all this. He took a chance on Columbus and then last year was a nightmare of injuries and this season is starting off with this...

"I wasn't surprised that @RockLobster could be bought, I was surprised by how little he could be bought for."
- @henchman21

It’s shocking how little…

 

[Chiarelli]

“Fantilli’s Phone” just became the top fantasy team name for the year

 

[Freudian]

Babcock sadly can't help himself and it too stuck in his mindgame thinking he can't reinvent himself as a coach.

I'm surprised he was so dumb so fast though.

 

[Vk1ing]

While I understand not wanting to jump to conclusions and giving people a second chance, I don't understand people who are still defending Babcock.

 

[UncleRisto]

Babcock sadly can't help himself and it too stuck in his mindgame thinking he can't reinvent himself as a coach.

I'm surprised he was so dumb so fast though.

We knew he'd be stupid but already?

 

[JLo217]

The funniest aspect in all this is that Biz and Splittin' Chicklets were the ones right lol.

A bunch of old boys club guys took down another old boys club guy.

Biz is still part of the problem in hockey culture. Babs obviously is awful but this is a win for the players not hockey culture.

 

[MarkT]

While I understand not wanting to jump to conclusions and giving people a second chance, I don't understand people who are still defending Babcock.

I think the thing is, there are people who have no empathy. They imagine that if they were players for Babcock, they either would have no issue with showing their photos, or would just say no. They assume that anyone who wants to say no and doesn't is just weak, and if we always give in to weak people, it will never stop. Because they lack empathy, they don't seem to realize that even the mentally strongest person might not be willing to say no to Babcock. They seem to have trouble understanding why saying no to a guy who has possible control of their entire career would be an issue.

I'd imagine there's also some who see showing pictures as no big deal, and I'd imagine such people are the type whose pictures would all be considered "normal", and have no empathy for people whose pictures might be embarrassing or worse.

Lastly, I'd also assume that such people have never been bullied, because as a former victim of bullying I could instantly see how showing personal pictures on a screen for all to see could easily lead to bullying, harassment, and gossip.

 

[obZen]

This whole thing is a blessing in disguise for Columbus. Babcock is out before the season even starts. Things may look bad for CBJ now but it's better in the long run.

 

[henchman21]

Fair enough. I just think the initial report didn't warrant jumping to conclusions. Just because the criticism often ends up being warranted doesn't mean we need to get a head start.

That said, I do recognize how that can give the idea that someone is in support of Babcock here. It did cross my mind that it could just be the young players being annoying. I shall think about that.

There is no real support for Babs... just the he will do something stupid, just a matter of time.

I think people are bypassing the whole initial reporting of this. It started off in two main ways. There was something where players were asked to share photos of themselves with Babs. The reporting of this was in a similar vein to his other stops. Kadri and Marleau were both directly asked on this aspect of what they thought of it and if it had happened in their experience with Babs. Both had experienced it, and both were not off put by it. They found it to be a positive thing. This was likely what Gaudreau and Jenner were speaking to. This undoubtedly happened. Zero question about it, and this was one thing that people ran with... which was odd as it is pretty minor. Maybe weird, but pretty minor.

The second was that Babs was airdropping photos onto his office TV and putting players on blast. This is still unconfirmed... and going towards unlikely. If this was happening, it would be one of the big issues leaked. People ran with this and stated it as true... so far, this has not been confirmed.

The egregious issue here is one that was not reported on prior. Away from team facilities, he rifled through a players phone for several minutes. Likely there was the feeling or rumors that it had happened, but this was not reported anywhere prior to Friedman stating it. If this had been the lead and the way the story broke... it is simply a different conversation. Instead the lead was Babs asking for players to share photos for a weird team building thing that he likes to do.